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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why are so many people hating on Halo: Glasslands? *SPOILERS*
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Subject: Why are so many people hating on Halo: Glasslands? *SPOILERS*

I bought it the day it came out and read a good portion in the first few days. Then the huge snow storm from nowhere came and knocked out power for almost a week straight, during which I had plenty of time to read Glasslands. Now I loved the Republic Commando novels by Karen Traviss and all the Halo novels by Eric Nylund. In Glasslands there were many strong points that had good enforcement in the established universe.

Many people are whining about how Halsey is being viewed as a war criminal and a monster by some. Well, she did essentially kidnap a bunch of 6 year old children and indoctrinate them, experiment on them, and essentially kill some of them. Plus replaced them with flash clones that had an extremely high chance of death. Whether it was for the greater good or not, many people in a rational world would view her as a monster. And also the fact that she kidnapped Kelly and got Fred and Linda rerouted to Onyx just to save a little of her soul. Spartan IIs were a pivotal part of the effort, and she just denied the UNSC three of them.

Then there is the branching character POVs and storylines. First off, why can't people stay with the branching storyline style? Its only three separate main stories. In which it follows many characters showing their views on the situation. The only parts I found dull were the Sangheili parts having to do with politics, which even though dull had their place in the story. This book is the base of a series, thus establishing what is needed for future novels. Even though I found the book perfectly fine the way it was.

So I was just wondering why people disliked the book in general? I think its a great addition to the Halo Universe and opens up many more pathways for the established canon to travel. Other than that, discuss away.

And I'm not saying everyone disliked it, I'm just wondering why the people who didn't like it don't like it.

TL: DR-

Why didn't people like Halo Glasslands?

[Edited on 11.05.2011 11:03 PM PDT]

  • 11.05.2011 10:57 PM PDT
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"The hero is the one who kindles a great light in the world, who sets up blazing torches in the dark streets of life for men to see by.
The saint is the man who walks through the dark paths of the world, himself a light."
-Felix Adler

I've only read the first two chapters online, I liked what I saw.

  • 11.05.2011 11:57 PM PDT

I read it, it's a good book, but also boring, It's no where near Nylunds greatness though.

  • 11.06.2011 12:02 AM PDT

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When I was in the middle of reading, I wondered what was wrong with the people who disliked her.

  • 11.06.2011 12:10 AM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

I like it a lot, the parts in the Dyson Sphere are the best. I prefer Nylund's books, but that's mostly because they have a bit more action and are focused on one plot rather than 3.

  • 11.06.2011 1:25 AM PDT

I wake up to find myself
After all these years
And where all the time has gone
Still seems so unclear

It's my favorite book. And yes, I've read all the others when they came out. Nylund is good and all, but it's so... confined. This book feels like how an extended universe book should feel.

I absolutely loved the ONI stuff. That's been one of my favorite parts of the Haloverse and it got to be explored a bit here. Also, Black-Box was awesome.

It was kinda ripe with anti-Halsey, but it really hadn't been "addressed" by non-Spartans before. It was a little much, but it's understandable.

  • 11.06.2011 1:32 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

I have yet to read it and I would really like to.

  • 11.06.2011 2:15 AM PDT
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I don't get the hate either. I even think Glasslands has surpassed Ghosts of Onyx as my favorite of the Halo novels.

Post-war politics is something that intrigues me and there is plenty. Just seeing these massive species trying to get back on their feet and that its not just a simple "Hood and Arbiter shaking hands" agreement is exciting. An Elite Civil War, a stronger rebel threat as well as the Halo 4 tie-ins...

Ah yes, the Halo 4 tie-ins. The fact that Humanity is now in possession of a grand scale of Forerunner technology as well as the fact that the Infinity exists and that there are Spartan IVs and they are all gonna somehow end up finding Master Chief, just that entire set-up, my god. It left me salivating to see what's next, especially that cliffhanger ending for the book.

The ending and the "threat" the Huragok kept going on about in Onyx is very intriguing for me. Who will attack Phillips and the Radicals' temple in the very heart of Sanghelios?

Defintely not Telcam's men, he says so himself. Don't make sense for the Arbiter to do it. Doubt its the human rebels since, how in the world would they have gotten onto Sanghelios. It must be a threat within this Forerunner structure and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it ain't an Elite.

So, so exciting. Need to see where this goes.

  • 11.06.2011 6:39 AM PDT

There are only a few reasons I can think of OP:

1) The people hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously).

2) They are Nylund fanboys.

3) They think in only 1 dimensions for the characters; refuse to accept growth.

4) Incapable of actually using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

I thought the book was brilliant. Easily my favorite Halo novel.

Basically, I agree with Sanjeev

[Edited on 11.06.2011 6:45 AM PST]

  • 11.06.2011 6:44 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Because I am one of the people against Glasslands I might as well explain myself. Traviss is a good writer. I enjoyed her other books and I think her writing is good. My complaints lie with the canon areas of this book, areas like Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc. I have discussed these points to death elsewhere so I won't post them again here.
Posted by:ROBERTO jh
1)People hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously)

Absolutely not. I like a good firefight as much as the next guy, and am fine when the book is more character driven.

2)They are Nylund fanboys.

No again. I am fine with any writer. If I was a fanboy, it would be Abnett or Dembski-Bowden.

3)They think in only 1 dimension for characters; refuse to accept growth.

Nope. I love some good character development.

4)Incapable of using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

When a single viewpoint is being shoved down your throat the whole book it tends to get annoying. In my eyes, Halsey holds the moral high ground.

  • 11.06.2011 7:17 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

The Sangheili's post war feelings were completely overstated in my opinion, and their acceptance of Brutes alongside the derision of Humanity seems skewed. The whole "liar" premise is a convenient way to justify the highly illogical viewpoints that they have, but unfortunately this is completely artificial in the context of the fiction. No reference has ever been made to this stereotype above any other in previous canon. The Sangheili characters have no scruples or moral conscience and honestly appear to be flat because of it. They have a single goal (Pragmatists like Levu are by all intents similar to Jul. They only have the intelligence to see that the Sangheili cannot commit any further genocides and so will stay their blades for the time being. They do not want peace, but accept that it is necessary for the timebeing), and at no time do they doubt it nor does anything they see, such as Jul witnessing Phillips solve an arum in front of this face, have any lasting impact on him. The attempts to get you to sympathize with Jul when he pined about his family were completely impotent, drowned out by the fact that he and they are all monsters in this book who view genocide as acceptable and self-defence from their unjustified, wanton attacks as something that puts the victim in your debt. It was, contrary to what most think, black and white. The villains and the morally correct are easy to spot. If it is the authors intention to make you completely hate the Sangheili then the author has succeeded, vastly.

The rest of the book was actually quite good, but the above has made me lose interest in anything that really happens after Halo 3.

  • 11.06.2011 8:37 AM PDT

I kinda agree with Anton about the Elites. I've never seen humanity described by the Covenant as "liars" before.

Defilers of Forerunner artifacts sure. Pests yeah. Liars? nope.

  • 11.06.2011 9:34 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
Because I am one of the people against Glasslands I might as well explain myself. Traviss is a good writer. I enjoyed her other books and I think her writing is good. My complaints lie with the canon areas of this book, areas like Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc. I have discussed these points to death elsewhere so I won't post them again here.
Posted by:ROBERTO jh
1)People hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously)

Absolutely not. I like a good firefight as much as the next guy, and am fine when the book is more character driven.

2)They are Nylund fanboys.

No again. I am fine with any writer. If I was a fanboy, it would be Abnett or Dembski-Bowden.

3)They think in only 1 dimension for characters; refuse to accept growth.

Nope. I love some good character development.

4)Incapable of using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

When a single viewpoint is being shoved down your throat the whole book it tends to get annoying. In my eyes, Halsey holds the moral high ground.

To the "Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc." part. This book is supposed to open up more room for the next three Halo games and more for the general universe. How are those things not canon if they are just being established? And also, it explains how Chief in Halo 4 has different armor, to quell all the whining.

EDIT: BTW, Glasslands is confirmed canon.

[Edited on 11.06.2011 9:51 AM PST]

  • 11.06.2011 9:42 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
There are only a few reasons I can think of OP:

1) The people hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously).


As XD said, I've read and enjoyed books that are not action packed.

2) They are Nylund fanboys. Not really. I've only read his halo books, and even then I don't like all the parts.

3) They think in only 1 dimensions for the characters; refuse to accept growth. I accept character growth. When it makes sense :/. Mendez suddenly hating Halsey (when if anything he should hate himself), being unsure if he resents having to share food to keep her alive? I think this is something that should've happened with the S2's, before the alpha company. Then it'd make sense. Post gamma? I'd see it taking a good bit longer :/.

4) Incapable of actually using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong. Um... what?

  • 11.06.2011 10:00 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
There are only a few reasons I can think of OP:

1) The people hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously).


As XD said, I've read and enjoyed books that are not action packed.

2) They are Nylund fanboys. Not really. I've only read his halo books, and even then I don't like all the parts.

3) They think in only 1 dimensions for the characters; refuse to accept growth. I accept character growth. When it makes sense :/. Mendez suddenly hating Halsey (when if anything he should hate himself), being unsure if he resents having to share food to keep her alive? I think this is something that should've happened with the S2's, before the alpha company. Then it'd make sense. Post gamma? I'd see it taking a good bit longer :/.

4) Incapable of actually using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong. Um... what?


He could have hated Halsey for a long time. This is just the first time we hear of it. He was convinced he was doing a greater good until everything was over, and he realized how horrible the things he and Halsey did were.

  • 11.06.2011 10:14 AM PDT

I'd accept that, if it wasn't for the fact ALL other interactions between him and Halsey were friendly.

Still, some of his comments I saw were stupid for him hating Halsey.

That she'd be stricter with the requirements to make sure the most had the chance of surviving is a bad thing? That she'd never agree with using them as expendable soldiers?

  • 11.06.2011 10:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I'd accept that, if it wasn't for the fact ALL other interactions between him and Halsey were friendly.

Still, some of his comments I saw were stupid for him hating Halsey.

That she'd be stricter with the requirements to make sure the most had the chance of surviving is a bad thing? That she'd never agree with using them as expendable soldiers?

That is true, but he has an old style military thought process. So Idk. I could see where he was coming from. And for the "interactions between him and Halsey were friendly" part, my most hated person in the world is my previous best friend and I am stuck being near him on a regular basis in the school day but I act very friendly and perfectly calm with him there. Only like three people know that I would love to rip his head off at a moments notice and its only because I told them. Some times its best to just to put on a facade and let things go their course.

[Edited on 11.06.2011 10:31 AM PST]

  • 11.06.2011 10:30 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: atcommando94

Posted by: Xd00999
Because I am one of the people against Glasslands I might as well explain myself. Traviss is a good writer. I enjoyed her other books and I think her writing is good. My complaints lie with the canon areas of this book, areas like Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc. I have discussed these points to death elsewhere so I won't post them again here.
Posted by:ROBERTO jh
1)People hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously)

Absolutely not. I like a good firefight as much as the next guy, and am fine when the book is more character driven.

2)They are Nylund fanboys.

No again. I am fine with any writer. If I was a fanboy, it would be Abnett or Dembski-Bowden.

3)They think in only 1 dimension for characters; refuse to accept growth.

Nope. I love some good character development.

4)Incapable of using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

When a single viewpoint is being shoved down your throat the whole book it tends to get annoying. In my eyes, Halsey holds the moral high ground.

To the "Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc." part. This book is supposed to open up more room for the next three Halo games and more for the general universe. How are those things not canon if they are just being established? And also, it explains how Chief in Halo 4 has different armor, to quell all the whining.

EDIT: BTW, Glasslands is confirmed canon.

Where did I say Glasslands is non-canon? The answer is nowhere. The book is canon but I don't like what it added to canon. And how would John have M7 in Halo 4? He can't just go into cryo wearing M6 and come out wearing M7.

  • 11.06.2011 10:33 AM PDT

In regards to novels and "canon". I will pick and choose which ones to support as I damn well please. Cryptum and Glasslands are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Don't like that? Boo hoo.

Sure they're "canon" but that doesn't mean I have to support them, their existence, or the continued careers of their respective writers.

Elites suddenly trusting Brutes with anything.
"By the Prophets, what have these Brutes done? They have shed our brothers' blood, and for that they must die!"
-Spec Ops Elite, Halo 2 level Uprising

"Vile disloyal beasts, the Prophets were fools to trust them!"
-Rtas 'Vadumee, Halo 2 level Uprising

Human comparisons notwithstanding, you'd think the Elites would opt for the annihilation of the Brutes rather than give them jobs on the Elite homeworld that would easily put them in a position to strike at the Elites.


The demonizing of Halsey also didn't sit well with me. Yes she kidnapped children, yes what she did under normal circumstances would be a horrible thing, but at the time they weren't normal circumstances. The Insurrectionist movement was on the rise, becoming increasingly violent and it was predicted that a large scale civil war could break out. Millions of lives were on the line.
It just turns out that later on the same Spartans that beat off many Insurrectionists were responsible for the continued survival of the human race, especially one in particular.

Yes what she did was morally and ethically wrong, but it was those wrong actions that allowed humanity as a species to live long enough to -blam!- about it.

Mendez did an about face from his previous portrayals in the novels (he used to have a great pride for training the finest soldiers of humanity), and Parangosky seems incredibly petty.

[Edited on 11.06.2011 10:48 AM PST]

  • 11.06.2011 10:44 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: atcommando94

Posted by: Xd00999
Because I am one of the people against Glasslands I might as well explain myself. Traviss is a good writer. I enjoyed her other books and I think her writing is good. My complaints lie with the canon areas of this book, areas like Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc. I have discussed these points to death elsewhere so I won't post them again here.
Posted by:ROBERTO jh
1)People hating Glasslands are action junkies (action being the smallest portion of it, obviously)

Absolutely not. I like a good firefight as much as the next guy, and am fine when the book is more character driven.

2)They are Nylund fanboys.

No again. I am fine with any writer. If I was a fanboy, it would be Abnett or Dembski-Bowden.

3)They think in only 1 dimension for characters; refuse to accept growth.

Nope. I love some good character development.

4)Incapable of using their brain to make their own decisions regarding right and wrong.

When a single viewpoint is being shoved down your throat the whole book it tends to get annoying. In my eyes, Halsey holds the moral high ground.

To the "Infinity, the Spartan IVs, Mark VII, etc." part. This book is supposed to open up more room for the next three Halo games and more for the general universe. How are those things not canon if they are just being established? And also, it explains how Chief in Halo 4 has different armor, to quell all the whining.

EDIT: BTW, Glasslands is confirmed canon.

Where did I say Glasslands is non-canon? The answer is nowhere. The book is canon but I don't like what it added to canon. And how would John have M7 in Halo 4? He can't just go into cryo wearing M6 and come out wearing M7.

Oh sorry, misunderstood your previous post. And also, in the story it stated that the Mjolnir armor has nano technology that self upgrades over long periods of time in cryo.

[Edited on 11.06.2011 10:50 AM PST]

  • 11.06.2011 10:45 AM PDT


Posted by: Astartes Marine
Mendez did an about face from his previous portrayals in the novels (he used to have a great pride for training the finest soldiers of humanity), and Parangosky seems incredibly petty.


This.


Posted by: atcommando94
Oh sorry, misunderstood your previous post. And also, in the story it stated that the Mjolnir armor has nano technology that self upgrades in long periods over long periods of time in cryo.


Don't they make that comment regarding Mark 7 only?

  • 11.06.2011 10:50 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: atcommando94
Oh sorry, misunderstood your previous post. And also, in the story it stated that the Mjolnir armor has nano technology that self upgrades in long periods over long periods of time in cryo.


Don't they make that comment regarding Mark 7 only?

I don't think so.... and the search for a single sentence in an over 400 page book begins.

  • 11.06.2011 10:54 AM PDT

United Armed Forces

Traviss said she turned characters into "real people."

If so, then she is saying that Fred, Linda, Kelly, Tom, Olivia and Ash are not characters, The ODSTs are shallow idiots, Lucy is some sort of hero, Halsey is suddenly a guilt-ridden freak that can't come to terms with herself (She obviously has, since she stole the spartans away), Mendez is suddenly a philosophical bastard(lolno, he doesn't HAVE skeletons in his closet), et cetera.

The book is terrible, destroys most of what we know about Sangheili culture, and sets aside one of the single most important aspects Bungie wanted in their universe: Spartans are people too.

According to Traviss, spartans are just little machines that follow orders and don't question -blam!-.

  • 11.06.2011 10:55 AM PDT


Posted by: GnadeMasta
Traviss said she turned characters into "real people."

If so, then she is saying that Fred, Linda, Kelly, Tom, Olivia and Ash are not characters, The ODSTs are shallow idiots, Lucy is some sort of hero, Halsey is suddenly a guilt-ridden freak that can't come to terms with herself (She obviously has, since she stole the spartans away), Mendez is suddenly a philosophical bastard(lolno, he doesn't HAVE skeletons in his closet), et cetera.

The book is terrible, destroys most of what we know about Sangheili culture, and sets aside one of the single most important aspects Bungie wanted in their universe: Spartans are people too.

According to Traviss, spartans are just little machines that follow orders and don't question -blam!-.
A lot of your arguments don't even make sense. Fred, Linda, Kelly, Tom, Olivia and Ash just werent focused on, that doesn't mean they aren't characters. The ODSTs are a little shallow, but they are just ODSTs. And either way, they don't really seem shallow to me. Lucy is a good character and very human, which completely contradicts what you said. What does Halsey stealing the spartans have anything to do with proving she has no guilt? And Mendez view was ok for me. The spartan training is the skeleton in his closet.

  • 11.06.2011 11:11 AM PDT

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