Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Would you prefer a "Join Active Session" Matchmaking System?
  • Subject: Would you prefer a "Join Active Session" Matchmaking System?
Subject: Would you prefer a "Join Active Session" Matchmaking System?

@Darkside Eric - Wish there was a thumbs up or thank you type of indicator so that I could give you one for your response. This forum needs more people like you on it.

  • 11.11.2011 12:37 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Killer4785
I do agree that having a team mate leave is bad. But making games random because of it is not the solution. If it is the solution, then competitive e-sports on consoles is dead. Look how much halo has already fallen, look how much people have already returned their MW3 copies? People are tired of being spoon fed the same crap every single year.


Again, re~think your stance.

Firstly competitive e-sports will last a good long while with no FPS games, trust me.

Secondly, again, we already have a randomness because players cannot fill voided spots on teams. I've lost several games when we were winning because people quit out for whatever reason. That definitely takes the competitiveness out of a match and certainly throws randomness in to it.

I play League of Legends, which has no drop-in/out but does allow players to get back into a game if they leave/disconnect. When 1 player leaves that game the entire game can become lop sided, just as it can in Halo.

Dedicated servers are the way to go and the best way to do dedicated servers is drop-in/out, that's just how it is.

Ranked playlists can then be akin to League of Legends. Get in queue, get a team, get in game, if you quit/disconnect you can go back in having a reserved spot.

Add to the above a secondary queue that players can opt to be in that gives them a list of games that are currently uneven teams. Select the one you want, if you want, and join it. Only servers of your rank would be listed.

  • 11.11.2011 12:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: Killer4785
I do agree that having a team mate leave is bad. But making games random because of it is not the solution. If it is the solution, then competitive e-sports on consoles is dead. Look how much halo has already fallen, look how much people have already returned their MW3 copies? People are tired of being spoon fed the same crap every single year.


Again, re~think your stance.

Firstly competitive e-sports will last a good long while with no FPS games, trust me.

Secondly, again, we already have a randomness because players cannot fill voided spots on teams. I've lost several games when we were winning because people quit out for whatever reason. That definitely takes the competitiveness out of a match and certainly throws randomness in to it.

I play League of Legends, which has no drop-in/out but does allow players to get back into a game if they leave/disconnect. When 1 player leaves that game the entire game can become lop sided, just as it can in Halo.

Dedicated servers are the way to go and the best way to do dedicated servers is drop-in/out, that's just how it is.

Ranked playlists can then be akin to League of Legends. Get in queue, get a team, get in game, if you quit/disconnect you can go back in having a reserved spot.

Add to the above a secondary queue that players can opt to be in that gives them a list of games that are currently uneven teams. Select the one you want, if you want, and join it. Only servers of your rank would be listed.


Now this is also gives one something to ponder, but I unfortunately I don't believe any (Xbox) Halo game will every have dedicated servers, but I could be wrong... I hope I'm wrong.

[Edited on 11.11.2011 12:42 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2011 12:42 PM PDT

Eric I can be ok with the player who left/lagged out being aloud back in, but not just any player being able to fill his spot.

  • 11.11.2011 12:43 PM PDT

Lol

I said Competitive E-sports on consoles. We both know with SC 2 and LoL the PC community is fine with E-sports. SC 2 uses a different system and does what LoL can't. How many threads every single day on LoL complain about smurfers? Don't give me that bs that LoL ranking system is balanced. Every single day people complain about smurfers. If you don't know what a smurf is, its where someone makes a new account, makes it look like crap and plays against lesser skilled players for a extreme long time. Go on SC 2 forums and tell me where you see a smurfer thread that isn't over 6 months old? If someone smurfs on SC 2 they either get banned or play against good people very quickly. Please, stop saying that drop in and out is the best when it has been outclassed in every single way, except by time needed to find a match.

  • 11.11.2011 12:44 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Killer4785
I'm willing to lose 2v1 then have someone join me. The reason for this is because when you use a drop in and out system the skill levels of each player can differ. If I was losing before you left and now start winning from a new teammate, that's not right. I deserved to lose. And I expect the same thing vise versa. If I was winning a match earlier and one opponent rage quits and gets a teammate whose better than everyone else in the game and wins that's not fair to the team who was winning before. That's not equality in terms of ethics.


It's not ethical to lose a match you were winning simply because a storm hit my city and knocked my power out leaving you 1v2 either, is it?

Also you can squelch the "not fair skill" angle the moment you add restrictions.

Did you start the game on a ranked server room of Level 43-45? Cool. The only people who can then join in place of the person you lost are Level 43-45, so they match the skill requirements of the game you were in.

  • 11.11.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Lol

It's ethical to lose a match from something that is not under the control of the player. IF you left from rage quitting or from power outage it was not in my power to control. I'm fine with losing as long as a drop in drop out system doesn't come into place.

  • 11.11.2011 12:52 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Killer4785
I said Competitive E-sports on consoles. We both know with SC 2 and LoL the PC community is fine with E-sports. SC 2 uses a different system and does what LoL can't. How many threads every single day on LoL complain about smurfers? Don't give me that bs that LoL ranking system is balanced. Every single day people complain about smurfers. If you don't know what a smurf is, its where someone makes a new account, makes it look like crap and plays against lesser skilled players for a extreme long time. Go on SC 2 forums and tell me where you see a smurfer thread that isn't over 6 months old? If someone smurfs on SC 2 they either get banned or play against good people very quickly. Please, stop saying that drop in and out is the best when it has been outclassed in every single way, except by time needed to find a match.


I don't even need to mention the PC community to say competitive e-sports on console will be fine without FPS games? Why?

Evolution Fighting Championship

Street Fighter
Marvel vs Capcom
Tekken

Need I go on?

How are you going to stop smurfers exactly? Make it so that only one account can exist per IP? That will go over well.

Drop-in/out gameplay doesn't go hand in hand with RTS like it does with FPS. FPS really is the only genre that can support drop-in/out gameplay because it has the most heavy basis on multi people vs multi people.

Drop-in/out can't work for LoL because of the in-game experience system.

LoL is not an FPS.

Drop in/out worked for every PC FPS made that used it. Every. Single. One. And all of them (nearly all?) use dedicated servers.

See a pattern?

  • 11.11.2011 12:52 PM PDT

halo doesnt need any changes reach had too many so they dont need more

  • 11.11.2011 12:54 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Killer4785
It's ethical to lose a match from something that is not under the control of the player. IF you left from rage quitting or from power outage it was not in my power to control. I'm fine with losing as long as a drop in drop out system doesn't come into place.


Sorry, but I don't like losing simply because I lost a teammate, especially if I was winning or at least keeping up with the enemy and making it an even game.

If I lose a teammate and I then lose the game, I didn't lose because you beat me, I lost because I lost because I lost a teammate.

  • 11.11.2011 12:56 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: darkmasterm44
halo doesnt need any changes reach had too many so they dont need more


What exactly made Halo unique in the first place?

  • 11.11.2011 12:57 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eRage Sanctity
Eric I can be ok with the player who left/lagged out being aloud back in, but not just any player being able to fill his spot.


Why would you be against a special queue that acts somewhat as a 2nd string, especially if they are the exact same rank/skill as you are?

  • 11.11.2011 12:59 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eLantern
Now this is also gives one something to ponder, but I unfortunately I don't believe any (Xbox) Halo game will every have dedicated servers, but I could be wrong... I hope I'm wrong.


Battlefield uses dedicated servers. As does Gears.

  • 11.11.2011 1:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eRage Sanctity
Eric I can be ok with the player who left/lagged out being aloud back in, but not just any player being able to fill his spot.


Why would you be against a special queue that acts somewhat as a 2nd string, especially if they are the exact same rank/skill as you are?

That should only be available in the pregame lobby.

If Im searching 50 high and Meagss quits I shouldnt be able to get Syphon in to replace him.

  • 11.11.2011 1:07 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eRage Sanctity

Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eRage Sanctity
Eric I can be ok with the player who left/lagged out being aloud back in, but not just any player being able to fill his spot.


Why would you be against a special queue that acts somewhat as a 2nd string, especially if they are the exact same rank/skill as you are?

That should only be available in the pregame lobby.


That's sort of what I am proposing.

Street Fighter has a feature that allows players playing Story Mode to be made available for online PvP matches.

Halo, through dedicated servers, could do the same.

Say you, Meagss, irie, and myself are in a party together and want some 2v2s done, but I want to mess around in Forge and irie wants to go off being irie. We go into the pre-game lobby (or even get a request from you to be an alternate), we sign up as alternates to come in if one of you should leave.

So, I go into Forge, irie goes off to be irie.

You and Meagss are playing, 10 min in, Meagss disconnects for whatever reason. I then get a notice asking if I want to join, if I say no, the notice then goes to irie, if he says no, you get no partner unless Meaggs comes back. If Meagss comes back while myself or irie are in the game, we are prompted to quit so he may re~enter.

  • 11.11.2011 1:17 PM PDT

But do you realize how this will be abused?

Players will just tell the person who is doing bad to leave so they can have someone of Syphon/Godhands caliber join to win them the game.

  • 11.11.2011 1:20 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eRage Sanctity
But do you realize how this will be abused?

Players will just tell the person who is doing bad to leave so they can have someone of Syphon/Godhands caliber join to win them the game.


How is that any different from current organized competitive sports, which e-sports are trying to replicate?

  • 11.11.2011 1:29 PM PDT


Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eRage Sanctity
But do you realize how this will be abused?

Players will just tell the person who is doing bad to leave so they can have someone of Syphon/Godhands caliber join to win them the game.


How is that any different from current organized competitive sports, which e-sports are trying to replicate?

If thats what we want to replicate then the player who joins has to be somewhat worse than the player who quit, thus making him the 2nd string.

  • 11.11.2011 1:31 PM PDT

Posted by:Killer4785
All they have to do is make a system where you strictly win and lose 50/50. All matches will be competitive and balanced. Good people play against good people, bad people will play against bad people. The only reason why they wouldn't make a system like this for a shooter is because everyone's stats would be close to the same. K/D 1.0 etc. People couldn't boost stats or have bragging rights.


Are you referring to a game you created in your head? ...in Imaginationland? Because as you say, "All they (the developers) have to do is make a system where you strictly win and lose 50/50." ...hmmm, do you really think it's that simple? I believe Halo, and other FPS games, have been trying to develop a matchmaking system for some time now that would do pretty much what you're suggesting, that is pair good players against equally good player, and bad players against equally bad players. Thing is, I haven't seen a system that's perfect yet? I think your out of your mind if you think the only reason why they haven't made a system like that is because they want to ensure everyone's stats can be boosted or that people will be able to brag.

Honestly, when I re-read that post, it sounds like you're describing a game where I'd join and maybe get to shoot some people, or cap a flag, or arm a bomb perhaps, but then those tasks and achievement really don't matter, and before the game is over the system will simply determine what is fair... and let's say because I won the previous match, it's now my turn to lose, but at least the people I played against were complete clones of myself and everybody finished with a 1.0 K/D ratio... good think everything I do, they do equally as well. What a bizarre imagination you have sir. What, may I ask, is the point of playing a game like you described?

Look how much Halo has already fallen, look how much people have already returned their MW3 copies? People are tired of being spoon fed the same crap every single year.

I would argue that since Call of Duty's newest game (MW3) just broke the record for sales once again and I don't know how many people you think are taking the game back, but it isn't enough to suggest that people truly are tired of as you suggest "being spoon fed" the same crap every single year. Oh, by the way, Halo's decline in my opinion which is based off of observations and first hand reports from friends and fellow or even former Halo gamers is that the multiplayer matchmaking system has something to do with it. This is a big reason why I finally decided to create a topic on it, here.

I'm willing to lose 2v1 then have someone join me. The reason for this is because when you use a drop in and out system the skill levels for each player can differ. If I was losing before you left and now start winning from a new teammate, that's not right, I deserve to lose. And I expect the same thing vise versa. If I was winning a match earlier and one opponent rage quits and gets a teammate whose better than everyone else in the game and wins that's not fair to the team who was winning before. That's not equality in terms of ethics.

Gezzz... now who's being the selfish person here?

[Edited on 11.11.2011 2:04 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2011 1:34 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eRage Sanctity

Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eRage Sanctity
But do you realize how this will be abused?

Players will just tell the person who is doing bad to leave so they can have someone of Syphon/Godhands caliber join to win them the game.


How is that any different from current organized competitive sports, which e-sports are trying to replicate?

If thats what we want to replicate then the player who joins has to be somewhat worse than the player who quit, thus making him the 2nd string.


Except how many times has a relief pitcher, 2nd string QB, etc helped turn the game around?

  • 11.11.2011 1:34 PM PDT
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My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Darkside Eric

Dedicated servers are the way to go and the best way to do dedicated servers is drop-in/out, that's just how it is.

Ranked playlists can then be akin to League of Legends. Get in queue, get a team, get in game, if you quit/disconnect you can go back in having a reserved spot.

Add to the above a secondary queue that players can opt to be in that gives them a list of games that are currently uneven teams. Select the one you want, if you want, and join it. Only servers of your rank would be listed.


We need this.

  • 11.11.2011 1:36 PM PDT

Helps turn it around, but they arent consistently better than the starter.

In the game where Rex Grossman threw 4 INT Beck came in and started to turn it around, but what has Beck done since then? He has yet to win a game as our starter, whereas at least Grossman was 3-2 as our starter.

Hell, Beck has NEVER won a game as a starter.

/redskins vent

  • 11.11.2011 1:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eLantern
Now this is also gives one something to ponder, but I unfortunately I don't believe any (Xbox) Halo game will every have dedicated servers, but I could be wrong... I hope I'm wrong.


Battlefield uses dedicated servers. As does Gears.


I understand that and I enjoy playing Battlefield very much so, but Battlefield was developed from the ground up with dedicated servers in mind... if Halo continues its tradition on the way multiplayer is designed for consoles (and I think they will - not referring to the matchmaking system necessarily), then dedicated servers will not happen. However, as I stated earlier, I hope I'm wrong and if I am wrong indeed, then I would really like to see the Ranked playlist's matchmaking method (system) tweaked to reflect some of the changes you noted.

[Edited on 11.11.2011 1:47 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2011 1:40 PM PDT


Posted by: eRage Sanctity

Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: eRage Sanctity
But do you realize how this will be abused?

Players will just tell the person who is doing bad to leave so they can have someone of Syphon/Godhands caliber join to win them the game.


How is that any different from current organized competitive sports, which e-sports are trying to replicate?

If thats what we want to replicate then the player who joins has to be somewhat worse than the player who quit, thus making him the 2nd string.


Why are you making this so complicated? People tell bad players they suck, to go hide, and that they should give up the game forever... already. This is not all-of-a-sudden going to start occurring out of the blue just because of a "Join Active Session in Progress" matchmaking system. As a gamer who's likely into the game for the challenge anyways, what's the big deal if you face someone who is equally or better than the person who left? Suck it up and step up your game then.

[Edited on 11.11.2011 1:48 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2011 1:44 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: eRage Sanctity
Helps turn it around, but they arent consistently better than the starter.

In the game where Rex Grossman threw 4 INT Beck came in and started to turn it around, but what has Beck done since then? He has yet to win a game as our starter, whereas at least Grossman was 3-2 as our starter.

Hell, Beck has NEVER won a game as a starter.

/redskins vent



How is it someone can be worse than the starter, who is playing badly, can turn around a game the starter was messing up?

Question is... say you do have a better player in your back up queue, how often are you going to willingly quit (potentially killing your rating), just so your team can win?

Or, here's another idea:

For ranked games, players can only step in a certain amount of times to curb boosting in some fashion.

  • 11.11.2011 1:44 PM PDT