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This topic has moved here: Subject: so does everyone see halsey as a monster?
  • Subject: so does everyone see halsey as a monster?
Subject: so does everyone see halsey as a monster?

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

No, she was just a batch.

  • 11.08.2011 7:51 PM PDT

Glory and fame, blood is our name!
Souls full of thunder, hearts of steel!
Killers of men, a warrior's friend!
Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
Sons of the gods, today we shall die.
Open Valhalla's door!
Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!

If not for her, Humanity would've been annihilated.

  • 11.08.2011 8:19 PM PDT

In regards to novels and "canon". I will pick and choose which ones to support as I damn well please. Cryptum and Glasslands are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Don't like that? Boo hoo.

Sure they're "canon" but that doesn't mean I have to support them, their existence, or the continued careers of their respective writers.

I do not see her as a monster, Karen Traviss' portrayal be damned.

Halsey did what had to be done. If she hadn't, the human race would have been eventually reduced to little more than a bitter memory echoed in the wind.

Needs of the many...

  • 11.08.2011 9:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Astartes Marine
I do not see her as a monster, Karen Traviss' portrayal be damned.

Halsey did what had to be done. If she hadn't, the human race would have been eventually reduced to little more than a bitter memory echoed in the wind.

Needs of the many...


Outweigh the needs of the few.

  • 11.08.2011 10:02 PM PDT

She's a heartless -blam!-

quick question. Who are the bad guys on onyx

  • 11.09.2011 12:15 AM PDT
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Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: AnubissWarior
You are in germany, you hawe active camo and sniper rifle.
You see Hitler, you can kill him and save over 100.000.000 people or you can hesitate and not take the shoot, and doom many inocent people.

Halsey did what should be done.
Terrible comparison. I understand what you're trying to say but little 6 year old kids are not Hitler.

you can kidnap 300 6yr old kids and save galaxy from
1st.All out human/human war.
2nd.Human/covenant war.
3rd.Human /halo,flood effect.


She didn't know about the Covenant at the time. She did not know about Halo or the Flood at that time. Her reason was to stop the Insurrection from getting any worse than it already was.

If it was purely the Insurrection, I probably would of disliked her. Normal marines could of handled it, eventually. The fact that the Covenant and the Flood appeared on the galactic stage is her only saving grace, in my opinion.



[Edited on 11.09.2011 1:40 AM PST]

  • 11.09.2011 1:39 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

Spartans don't. They see her as a mother figure, but thats generally because they never had one.

  • 11.09.2011 1:59 AM PDT
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:)

No.

She did what she needed to do.

  • 11.09.2011 2:55 AM PDT

I don't see her as a monster.

Besides: you shouldn't regard people in such a black and white way as she is regarded. For example: Hitler was a monster, yet he did pull a country out of an economic mess, provided loads of work, build the Autobahn and because he was a monster the world formed the NATO. What I'm trying to say is that even people we objectively regard (rightfully in the case of Hitler) as monsters have a flipside where they did do good things of importance that you can't overlook. Not to say that it should outweigh their wrongs however! Esspecially not in the case of Hitler. Fact is: her actions have both negative and positive sides and consequences.

Sure: Halsey did things that are unethical and are very questionable. But the cause of it all was even more unethical: single rebels killing millions with nucleair bombs just to get attention. And in the end: she "ruined" the lives of a "few" children (of whom the vast majority doesn't even care about what they've become, what they've been through and sometimes don't even remember being an innocent kid...so: can you say their lives are ruined if they don't regard it that way themselves?) to save millions. And that esspecially became the case when the Covenant showed up. Let's face it: the children placed in the S2 project would have died anyways if they hadn't been taken by Halsey. And if Halsey didn't go forth with this "monstrous" program Humanity wouldn't have stand a chance against the Covenant.
War is unethical. War makes "monsters" out of people (or do they just make decisions that are incredibly difficult to make and normal people can't even think of making?) and war calls for actions like Halsey's. What she did doesn't make her more of a "monster" than Lord Hood for instance, who commanded all the troops he send to their deaths. Or captains like Keyes and Cole who singlehandedly threw ships with hundreds of crewmembers with no means to defend themselves against bigger, better armed Covenant ships.

[Edited on 11.09.2011 3:33 AM PST]

  • 11.09.2011 3:32 AM PDT
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As it was once said in watchmen movie:I killed millions to save billions.

  • 11.09.2011 3:59 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...



You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.

[Edited on 11.09.2011 5:09 AM PST]

  • 11.09.2011 5:08 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...



You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.



I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.

  • 11.09.2011 5:14 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...



You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.



I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.


Chill out. Now.

I never said Halsey did it alone. I NEVER said that the UNSC and ONI did not support her.

Could the UNSC overcome the Insurrection? Yes. Eventually. Take a look at the size and strength of the UNSC without the Spartans during the Human-Covenant war. Since we don't really know the strength of the Insurrection, I'll make an assumption.

Do they have more than a few thousand soldiers? Sure. Do they have as many as the UNSC has? No. Do they have some warships? Sure they do. Do they have as many as the UNSC? Probably not.

My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.

  • 11.09.2011 5:21 AM PDT

In regards to novels and "canon". I will pick and choose which ones to support as I damn well please. Cryptum and Glasslands are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Don't like that? Boo hoo.

Sure they're "canon" but that doesn't mean I have to support them, their existence, or the continued careers of their respective writers.

Posted by: Atomic Tea
My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.

They were necessary to keep it from becoming a war of attrition and millions of lives being lost in the process, there was the mention and I believe use of nuclear weaponry in at least one instance after all. Sure the UNSC could have "eventually" overcome the Insurrection but the cost was judged far too great.

  • 11.09.2011 5:25 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...

[/quote]

You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.[/quote]


I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.


Chill out. Now.

I never said Halsey did it alone. I NEVER said that the UNSC and ONI did not support her.

Could the UNSC overcome the Insurrection? Yes. Eventually. Take a look at the size and strength of the UNSC without the Spartans during the Human-Covenant war. Since we don't really know the strength of the Insurrection, I'll make an assumption.

Do they have more than a few thousand soldiers? Sure. Do they have as many as the UNSC has? No. Do they have some warships? Sure they do. Do they have as many as the UNSC? Probably not.

My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.


"Chill out" or what? nothing.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do?


The wording is pretty clear that you implied halesy did it all by herself when in reality she did what was asked of her.


The UNSC wouldn't have beat the Innes without a massive civil war in which they still probably wouldn't have beat them. We don't know where the Innes are,they steal ships like nothing, bomb citys like nothing, and even had a huge base the UNSC didn't know about.


The point of the spartans was to stop it from escalating and using the best of technology to have a hundred or so do the job of millions. Even then Innes even gave SPARTANS trouble.

If the UNSC and innes went to war then humanity would be split and ultimately weaker when the covenant attacked;because that is the main point. Because the UNSC was fighting the Innes they were more prepared to fight the covenant. Even when humanity was facing being the cockroaches of the galaxy the insurrection did not help.

  • 11.09.2011 5:28 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: Astartes Marine
Posted by: Atomic Tea
My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.

They were necessary to keep it from becoming a war of attrition and millions of lives being lost in the process, there was the mention and I believe use of nuclear weaponry in at least one instance after all. Sure the UNSC could have "eventually" overcome the Insurrection but the cost was judged far too great.


Yes. I know why they were created, but people make it sound as if it would be the end of the Human race if the Spartans weren't created right at that moment. They're exaggerating in my opinion.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be costly. It would of be very costly, but the fact remains that they didn't need the Spartans to win, they just wanted them so it wouldn't get even more out of hand. The UNSC had a chance at gaining an almost unstoppable tactical resource. Of course they took it, what government wouldn't?

  • 11.09.2011 5:32 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: Astartes Marine
Posted by: Atomic Tea
My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.

They were necessary to keep it from becoming a war of attrition and millions of lives being lost in the process, there was the mention and I believe use of nuclear weaponry in at least one instance after all. Sure the UNSC could have "eventually" overcome the Insurrection but the cost was judged far too great.


Yes. I know why they were created, but people make it sound as if it would be the end of the Human race if the Spartans weren't created right at that moment. They're exaggerating in my opinion.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be costly. It would of be very costly, but the fact remains that they didn't need the Spartans to win, they just wanted them so it wouldn't get even more out of hand. The UNSC had a chance at gaining an almost unstoppable tactical resource. Of course they took it, what government wouldn't?



It would be the end of a unified human government. SO you would rather waste millions of resources fighting a war you weren't going to completely win rather than use a more effective option?

  • 11.09.2011 5:35 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...

[/quote]

You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.[/quote]


I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.


Chill out. Now.

I never said Halsey did it alone. I NEVER said that the UNSC and ONI did not support her.

Could the UNSC overcome the Insurrection? Yes. Eventually. Take a look at the size and strength of the UNSC without the Spartans during the Human-Covenant war. Since we don't really know the strength of the Insurrection, I'll make an assumption.

Do they have more than a few thousand soldiers? Sure. Do they have as many as the UNSC has? No. Do they have some warships? Sure they do. Do they have as many as the UNSC? Probably not.

My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.


"Chill out" or what? nothing.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do?


The wording is pretty clear that you implied halesy did it all by herself when in reality she did what was asked of her.


The UNSC wouldn't have beat the Innes without a massive civil war in which they still probably wouldn't have beat them. We don't know where the Innes are,they steal ships like nothing, bomb citys like nothing, and even had a huge base the UNSC didn't know about.


The point of the spartans was to stop it from escalating and using the best of technology to have a hundred or so do the job of millions. Even then Innes even gave SPARTANS trouble.

If the UNSC and innes went to war then humanity would be split and ultimately weaker when the covenant attacked;because that is the main point. Because the UNSC was fighting the Innes they were more prepared to fight the covenant. Even when humanity was facing being the cockroaches of the galaxy the insurrection did not help.



umadbro?

Here we go again. According to Halsey, SHE (NOT ONI SPOOKS) went to each and every Spartan, examined them, and took them to Reach. She also was the OVERSEER of the experimentation process. Get your head out of your ass for once.

You seem to be implying that ONI didn't have spies within the Insurrection. You seem to be implying that ONI didn't steal the ships that were stolen from them. Just because we haven't heard about it yet doesn't mean it couldn't happen. You also make it sound like the UNSC has never bombed an Insurrectionist city. Did the Insurrection know about the bases the UNSC had on Onyx?

I'm basing this scenario on if the Covenant DIDN'T appear. Now that the Covenant war is over, the UNSC is fragile, and the Insurrection is without a doubt the most major threat. How will the UNSC react? Wait for the next book. It's pretty obvious that they'll be using Forerunner tech now.

  • 11.09.2011 5:39 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: Astartes Marine
Posted by: Atomic Tea
My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.

They were necessary to keep it from becoming a war of attrition and millions of lives being lost in the process, there was the mention and I believe use of nuclear weaponry in at least one instance after all. Sure the UNSC could have "eventually" overcome the Insurrection but the cost was judged far too great.


Yes. I know why they were created, but people make it sound as if it would be the end of the Human race if the Spartans weren't created right at that moment. They're exaggerating in my opinion.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be costly. It would of be very costly, but the fact remains that they didn't need the Spartans to win, they just wanted them so it wouldn't get even more out of hand. The UNSC had a chance at gaining an almost unstoppable tactical resource. Of course they took it, what government wouldn't?



It would be the end of a unified human government. SO you would rather waste millions of resources fighting a war you weren't going to completely win rather than use a more effective option?


No. I would take the Spartans. Do I absolutely need to? No. Is it the tactically sound thing to do? Yes.

  • 11.09.2011 5:40 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...

[/quote]

You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.[/quote]


I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.[/quote]

Chill out. Now.

I never said Halsey did it alone. I NEVER said that the UNSC and ONI did not support her.

Could the UNSC overcome the Insurrection? Yes. Eventually. Take a look at the size and strength of the UNSC without the Spartans during the Human-Covenant war. Since we don't really know the strength of the Insurrection, I'll make an assumption.

Do they have more than a few thousand soldiers? Sure. Do they have as many as the UNSC has? No. Do they have some warships? Sure they do. Do they have as many as the UNSC? Probably not.

My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.[/quote]

"Chill out" or what? nothing.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do?


The wording is pretty clear that you implied halesy did it all by herself when in reality she did what was asked of her.


The UNSC wouldn't have beat the Innes without a massive civil war in which they still probably wouldn't have beat them. We don't know where the Innes are,they steal ships like nothing, bomb citys like nothing, and even had a huge base the UNSC didn't know about.


The point of the spartans was to stop it from escalating and using the best of technology to have a hundred or so do the job of millions. Even then Innes even gave SPARTANS trouble.

If the UNSC and innes went to war then humanity would be split and ultimately weaker when the covenant attacked;because that is the main point. Because the UNSC was fighting the Innes they were more prepared to fight the covenant. Even when humanity was facing being the cockroaches of the galaxy the insurrection did not help.



umadbro?

Here we go again. According to Halsey, SHE (NOT ONI SPOOKS) went to each and every Spartan, examined them, and took them to Reach. She also was the OVERSEER of the experimentation process. Get your head out of your ass for once.

You seem to be implying that ONI didn't have spies within the Insurrection. You seem to be implying that ONI didn't steal the ships that were stolen from them. Just because we haven't heard about it yet doesn't mean it couldn't happen. You also make it sound like the UNSC has never bombed an Insurrectionist city. Did the Insurrection know about the bases the UNSC had on Onyx?

I'm basing this scenario on if the Covenant DIDN'T appear. Now that the Covenant war is over, the UNSC is fragile, and the Insurrection is without a doubt the most major threat. How will the UNSC react? Wait for the next book. It's pretty obvious that they'll be using Forerunner tech now.


I have no reason to be mad.


So your telling me that a civilian was the head of the entire project and nobody in the military was watching her? you obviously didn't read Glasslands because Halesy was being watched like a fox. Hell, even in TFoR she states she is constantly being watched by ONI heads.

Everything she did was allowed to happen by the government the only part they did know about until later was the cloning.


Of-course ONI had spys but rebels being rebels are going to be better than a military force. Example being how the Spartans got captured despite having "good intel" which was actually an elaborate plot.

If ONI stole back the ships that got stolen then it wouldn't be a big deal and the Innes wouldn't have so many ships and equipment. I think it was shown in halo evolutions how troublesome the innes stealing ships really was and nothing could really be done about it.

Um the UNSC never bombed an innie city because that would gain support for the innes. Once the innies started nuking places on Reach and other worlds the gloves came off.

Most of the UNSC didn't know about Onyx so that was bad attempt.


I am fully aware of that. Regardless the UNSC would never fully but the innies because they are an ideology not a force. So regardless of what was done innies will always be around unless a change happens. A full scale war would only end up in the innies favor.

  • 11.09.2011 5:52 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...

[/quote]

You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.[/quote]


I think you are undermining the Rebels because they were more than a handful for the UNSC. If they could have won with just marines then they would have just used marines.


I swear if i need to address this again i am going to snap. Halesy's Spartan Program was supported and funded by the UNSC and ONI she did not run off and do this alone.[/quote]

Chill out. Now.

I never said Halsey did it alone. I NEVER said that the UNSC and ONI did not support her.

Could the UNSC overcome the Insurrection? Yes. Eventually. Take a look at the size and strength of the UNSC without the Spartans during the Human-Covenant war. Since we don't really know the strength of the Insurrection, I'll make an assumption.

Do they have more than a few thousand soldiers? Sure. Do they have as many as the UNSC has? No. Do they have some warships? Sure they do. Do they have as many as the UNSC? Probably not.

My opinion remains. UNSC could have overcome the Insurrection, eventually. Spartans were not ABSOLUTELY necessary to fight the Insurrection.[/quote]

"Chill out" or what? nothing.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do?


The wording is pretty clear that you implied halesy did it all by herself when in reality she did what was asked of her.


The UNSC wouldn't have beat the Innes without a massive civil war in which they still probably wouldn't have beat them. We don't know where the Innes are,they steal ships like nothing, bomb citys like nothing, and even had a huge base the UNSC didn't know about.


The point of the spartans was to stop it from escalating and using the best of technology to have a hundred or so do the job of millions. Even then Innes even gave SPARTANS trouble.

If the UNSC and innes went to war then humanity would be split and ultimately weaker when the covenant attacked;because that is the main point. Because the UNSC was fighting the Innes they were more prepared to fight the covenant. Even when humanity was facing being the cockroaches of the galaxy the insurrection did not help.



umadbro?

Here we go again. According to Halsey, SHE (NOT ONI SPOOKS) went to each and every Spartan, examined them, and took them to Reach. She also was the OVERSEER of the experimentation process. Get your head out of your ass for once.

You seem to be implying that ONI didn't have spies within the Insurrection. You seem to be implying that ONI didn't steal the ships that were stolen from them. Just because we haven't heard about it yet doesn't mean it couldn't happen. You also make it sound like the UNSC has never bombed an Insurrectionist city. Did the Insurrection know about the bases the UNSC had on Onyx?

I'm basing this scenario on if the Covenant DIDN'T appear. Now that the Covenant war is over, the UNSC is fragile, and the Insurrection is without a doubt the most major threat. How will the UNSC react? Wait for the next book. It's pretty obvious that they'll be using Forerunner tech now.


I have no reason to be mad.


So your telling me that a civilian was the head of the entire project and nobody in the military was watching her? you obviously didn't read Glasslands because Halesy was being watched like a fox. Hell, even in TFoR she states she is constantly being watched by ONI heads.

Everything she did was allowed to happen by the government the only part they did know about until later was the cloning.


Of-course ONI had spys but rebels being rebels are going to be better than a military force. Example being how the Spartans got captured despite having "good intel" which was actually an elaborate plot.

If ONI stole back the ships that got stolen then it wouldn't be a big deal and the Innes wouldn't have so many ships and equipment. I think it was shown in halo evolutions how troublesome the innes stealing ships really was and nothing could really be done about it.

Um the UNSC never bombed an innie city because that would gain support for the innes. Once the innies started nuking places on Reach and other worlds the gloves came off.

Most of the UNSC didn't know about Onyx so that was bad attempt.


I am fully aware of that. Regardless the UNSC would never fully but the innies because they are an ideology not a force. So regardless of what was done innies will always be around unless a change happens. A full scale war would only end up in the innies favor.


I've read and finished Glasslands. What's your point? You can still be the head of a black project. Not once did I say she was never watched closely by Parangosky, so I don't know where that's coming from.

Rebels being rebels are going to be better than a military force? What? Elaborate.

So if the Insurrection nuked one of your cities, you wouldn't retaliate with a precision bombing campaign? Wouldn't the citizens of the UEG be pretty upset if the UNSC did nothing to retaliate after the Insurrection kept nuking their planets? This is where the Spartans come onto the scene. You already know my stance on this, so I'm not going to repeat it.

The UNSC didn't know about many of the things ONI did. Hood knew about Onyx, and so did ONI brass. I don't really see what you're getting at on this point. Did the Insurrection tell every one of their soldiers about their bases? No. Why? Spies.

  • 11.09.2011 6:03 AM PDT

"Wake me...when you need me."

She is not a monster. She is a survivor and a visionary. Both of those have costs associated with them.

  • 11.09.2011 7:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: FTW 1997
Your very wrong...She took 300 children to save them infact...
Look if she hadnt made spartans not 300 children but millions of people would die and she knew that...
If there werent spartans millions of cavillians would die and most of the children would die also from that war...
So she did the right thing...
Normal marines are much weaker and would die rapidly...



You obviously can't comprehend what a normal Marine can do. Could they have won the war against the Insurrection without the Spartans? You bet, just look at what ODSTs can do. Could they have won the war against the Covenant without the Spartans? Probably not.

I don't think she needed to kidnap 300 children and experiment on them for something as trivial as terrorism. I say trivial because I'm comparing it to the Human-Covenant war, which was far worse in comparison.

Is kidnapping 300 children and performing shady experiments on them a moral thing to do? No. Did it need to be done? Once the Covenant declared genocide against Humanity, I suppose it was needed.

The moral and the need balance each other out, making this a very grey argument. As others have stated, what she did was wrong, but it needed to be done in the end.


So, your saying that a few million marine deaths and a few mills of dead people isnt worse then kidnapping 300 children ?

Heck she made it because she knew it would be done anyway...

And even if the marines would go to war there would be high level of casualties...as i remember ....a few spartans died from the insurrection. (dont remember if they are I or II)

  • 11.09.2011 7:39 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

She's not a monster. She has clearly shown remorse for her actions of kidnapping innocent children.

  • 11.09.2011 8:49 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Nope, not a monster. She saved humanity, without her we wouldn't have lasted a decade. Her actions are ethically questionable but she did it all for the greater good and definitely had good intentions, for example the flash clones which would have been an important part of the S-II project for Halsey from the perspective of a mother.


Posted by: TOMahawk7890
She's a heartless -blam!-

quick question. Who are the bad guys on onyx


She really wasn't, but judging by your coup I'm going to assume you're just being a troll.

[Edited on 11.09.2011 9:16 AM PST]

  • 11.09.2011 9:14 AM PDT