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Subject: Why the heck would the UNSC get rid of the MA5B and M6D?
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Hikaru, gameplay is ALWAYS more important than the story. If the weapons don't fit in, than the balance issue overrides the story issue. But you have no idea whatsoever if those weapons were taken out.

Think about this for a second. How can an army of that size be issued Battle Rifles and SMGs in that period of time?

Gameplay wins.

  • 05.13.2004 10:30 PM PDT
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K, everyone listen up. The assault rifle is still in halo 2. And i am for certain the pistol is still around. The only two weapons missing from the MP demo were the Pistol (They just didn't implement it) and the flamethrower (Not conferemed). the assault rifle is in the demo, for a fact. Go to the IGN website and read a few of their reports. I heard the spartans start out with the Assault Rifle by default. So, there is no need for everyone to argue anymore.

  • 05.13.2004 10:34 PM PDT
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just give me a gun and tell me where the covenant are and i'll do the rest.

  • 05.13.2004 11:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ionic
K, everyone listen up. The assault rifle is still in halo 2. And i am for certain the pistol is still around. The only two weapons missing from the MP demo were the Pistol (They just didn't implement it) and the flamethrower (Not conferemed). the assault rifle is in the demo, for a fact. Go to the IGN website and read a few of their reports. I heard the spartans start out with the Assault Rifle by default. So, there is no need for everyone to argue anymore.


I agree totally, there is no way that Bungie could take out the M6D. It was the best weapon for its size. I admit that it was overpowerd, like almost everyone. The BR was also made specifically for the Spartans to test out. There was no other copy of the weapon available while the Spartans were on Reach, that is why they didn't have the upgrades for the suits yet, and why they now have MARK VI mjolnir armor. Anyone who thinks otherwise can kiss my @$$ because i don't care. If you have a problem, then too bad, you can bite my shiny metall @$$.
Nuff said!

  • 05.13.2004 11:51 PM PDT
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It just doesn't make sense that Bungie would take the out. If you have a problem too bad, you can e-mail nme @

HalcyonCmdr@aol.com

[Edited on 5/13/2004 11:54:00 PM]

  • 05.13.2004 11:51 PM PDT
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Ok, people, we're gonna replace our standard issue assault rifle with a SMG and our standard issue sidearm with a new assault rife within a few monts!" See the ridiculousness?
Not ridiculous. It's 2004, if the U.S. Military (for example) wanted to replace teh standard issue M16 with another gun, they could easily do it in a matter of months, if not sooner. The marines we will most likely be encountering are all on Earth, I'd assume in 2552 it would be easy to produce and distribute this many firearms.

  • 05.14.2004 12:28 AM PDT

Me: "OMFG, Dude... wtf!"
AbolitionofMan: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to betray you."
Me: "That's the 4th time in this game alone!"
Chris: "Third, besides he had the flag I was trying to stop him, how was I supposed to know you were there."
Me: "I said, 'I got the Flag, don't shoot.'"
Chris: "Well those Wraith shots take a while to reach you."
Me: "You were right next to me, I had killed him and a minute passed before you decided to shoot."
Chris: "Hahahahaha, yeah... that was great."

Posted by: themoosearmy
Ok, people, we're gonna replace our standard issue assault rifle with a SMG and our standard issue sidearm with a new assault rife within a few monts!" See the ridiculousness?
Not ridiculous. It's 2004, if the U.S. Military (for example) wanted to replace teh standard issue M16 with another gun, they could easily do it in a matter of months, if not sooner. The marines we will most likely be encountering are all on Earth, I'd assume in 2552 it would be easy to produce and distribute this many firearms.


Um, no. Trust me....I've served in the Army. With the logistics we have...only front line units would get that equipment. There are 4 versions of the M16. A1-A4. (I think now they have the A5 though).....active units, of which there are only 10, 1st Armored, 1st ID, 2nd ID, 3rd ID, 4th ID, 101st Air Assault, 82nd Airborne, 10th Mountain, 1st Cav, and 25th ID. All of these units have the first of everything. Because they are the FIRST to see action. They have the A4, while Guard and reserve have the A2 still.....they are using crap. Just because we can MAKE them in so little time does not mean they get to everyone just as fast. Logistics my friend.....an S-4 would now what I'm talking about. Just like with the M1A2SEP Abrams, I beleive is the newest version of out MBT. Frontline have them....yet even front line Marine units and some Army are still using the M1A1. And Guard units still have the aging, rusting M-60's. Just cause they can make them doesn't mean they'll have them.

Addition: Also, assuming they can get them to them all in this time. You have to understand the chaos. Earth is being invaded....Supply lines will not run smoothly, shipments may never reach their destination, or the factories may be destroyed....think of Germany WWII, same kind of logistical and supply problems when one is losing a war and has one's nation being invaded. Units get crap to fight with....

Achilles

[Edited on 5/14/2004 12:50:38 AM]

  • 05.14.2004 12:46 AM PDT
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I think i read somewhere on the bungie site that all of the old weapons will be back. They'll be aesthetically updated and maybe upgraded with extra functionally etc. Bungie aren’t going to give away all their secrets this soon. Most will be kept until release. Though I do agree with Hikaru about the defining weapons in the game. The MA5B and M6D are excellent designs that the developers would be crazy to just throw away.

  • 05.14.2004 12:48 AM PDT
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First off the UNSC military makes our current military look like a fledgling militia. They have by far much more people to re-arm and re-supply. And as for gameplay being more important....no. Story must rule otherwise gameplay would be worthless. You need a reason to blast everything or you'd stop playing Halo after your second time beating it. At least I would have if there was no story what so ever.

But enough with that. Thank you to everyone that supported my ideas. Everyone else, your opinion matters and I am glad you went into the flame to try to get yourself out of a losing situation. And yes Bungie did say in several articles that all old weapons are returning with new little changes.

  • 05.14.2004 5:14 AM PDT
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OMG, the covenant changed their nedler, how in all hell would they have given all of the covenant new needlers in that short anount of time???

LOL, sorry, i had to.... same sorta differnece, who would bother IMPROVING a gun, just to give to millions of units in the army, just use the old ones if they work good right.... I love the AR, but frankly i dont care if it dissapears, or even if the pistol dissapears, though it was my favorite weapon, and the SMG loks so pansy, i dont see how it could count, but it obviously does. So dont worry about it, whatever they do, they'll do it well, and i think gameplay is more important than story, or maybe just as equally, playing co-op with my friends, these days i just ignore the blah-blah, skip the scenes, and get to the shooting..... (the story wasa good first few times around, learning lines by heart and stuff) =) but gameplay is the main factor in the end i reckon

  • 05.14.2004 5:43 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

i agree with shizzle24. the weapons have just been changed to more appropriate looks.

it seems (dont shoot me) that the AR has been changed to the SMG and the pistol to the BR. give or take that is.

i guess bungie thought, like i did, that its a bit odd that the pistol had a zoom and great power when the rifle (generally a longer range weapon) didnt have range, zoom, or much power. in fact it was pretty cack.

that used to puzzle me, strange choice.

  • 05.14.2004 5:46 AM PDT
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1) Story does not need to rule to have good gameplay. My #1 point: Counter Strike. "Here, take this bomb, and blow up that red spray paint on the ground. Oh yeah, if you pay attention as you enter the game, I think it may even say what you're fragging. Oh yeah, and pwn the dudes trying to stop you."

2) The SMG and AR seem to have the very same role. Therefore, they're either the same gun with a different skin, or one is obviously better than the other. And that sucks.

  • 05.14.2004 5:56 AM PDT
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1.) Counter Strike is multiplayer and MP only from what I know. You don't need storyline for a -blam!- MP game.

2.)SMG fires faster that is a bigg difference. It also seems to be weaker. What they can do is make the MA5B more accurate and more powerful. That could be a better difference. But you people are coming off as really thick lately and I'm not sure if I should even bother giving you the time of day any more for being so.

  • 05.14.2004 6:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hikaru 119
1.) Counter Strike is multiplayer and MP only from what I know. You don't need storyline for a -blam!- MP game.

gonna go old school on you. what about the doom and quake series? i'm not alone in saying that there was some serious lacking in plot with those games. unless you consider fighting the armies of hell because you have to an engrossing story line. but people still played them, and people still loved them. why? because it was fun as hell to play. game play is more important in creating a game that is fun to play. a good story is just what helps separate inferior games from games like HALO.

2.)SMG fires faster that is a bigg difference. It also seems to be weaker. What they can do is make the MA5B more accurate and more powerful. That could be a better difference.
if they made the AR more accurate and more powerful it would be an unstoppable killing machine. we'd see how much the excellent story of HALO2 could save MP if only one weapon is ever used. oh wait, only one weapon is ever used in HALO MP (obvious exaggeration). the pistol. why does everyone gravitate towards it? because it's the most powerful, flexible, and UNBALANCED weapon in the game (not exaggeration). and while we're nit-picking, how would all of these modifications to the AR/pistol take place? someone was speaking of logistics before. how do you recall every firearm in service and upgrade them? and how would that take less time than distributing an already completed firearm? and let's not forget that this is nearly 550 years in the future. compare the logistics of mass distributing a firearm in the 1500's compared to today. drastic difference. what's to say the same difference will not be evident in 2552?

But you people are coming off as really thick lately and I'm not sure if I should even bother giving you the time of day any more for being so.
don't say things like that...you're breaking my fu*king heart. excuse me now. i have to contemplate my meaningless existence now that the all knowing, all seeing, all hearing Hikaru 119 will not grace us with "the time of day any more." pfff. get over yourself man.

  • 05.14.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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Hmm... The pistol was always my favorite weapon (after the shotgun), and I'll miss it. The battle rifle can try, but it is not going to be as powerful as the M6D with 36-40 rounds, and if it is it's going to be even worse because you could kill people with 3 round bursts. I think RunningMann has the best theory - the Earth forces got the BR a while ago, the outer colonies were using second hand equipment. And don't forget that the only reason the Chief was using the MA5B in Halo is because the SPARTANs' weapons locker was destroyed in the fighting over Reach. I am kind of angry that I won't be able to be a pistol -blam!- any more, fragging people near and far with 3 shots...

Also, to whoever said the AK-47 is secondhand - no it's not. It's one of the best rifle designs ever, and I'd rather have an AK-103 than any M16 (but my first choice would be a FN FAL - the body armor's getting really good these days).

  • 05.14.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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The weapons in HALO are used for naval combat.

The weapons in H2 are for the ground forces.

  • 05.14.2004 7:16 AM PDT
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Achilles brings up a valid point; be that as it may (read as "Your talking out your ass, now here is the truth").....
The military is replacing the M16 with the M4. All frontline mechanized units have them. It took 2 MONTHS (I beleave)to instigate that change.

The M1A2SEP IS the newest MBT. All regular army (not reservest or NG) armor units have them. It took 11 mths for 1st Cav division to make the switch. that's 4 brigades, all with 4 battalions, with 3 companies, 14 tanks/ company.

I was in the 1st Cav when they switched from the M1A2 to the SEP.

Also, most guard units have the M1a1, The units that have the m60 are the mountain untis, because the m60 works better in the mountains. There is no such thing as a REMF armor unit.

Now using the above examples, in that it took 11 months to change from the A2 to the A2 sep, and tanks are a hell of alot bigger and complicated then pistols and AR's, it is ENTIRLY possible that they could switch over in a matter of not years, not months, not weeks, but DAYS with the tech they have.

Now, Im sorry to go off on a rant, but I hate seeing dumb-ass REMFs get upity and talk out of his ass. OH, and the active "Units" are not "Units" they are Divisions.
and the pistol is overpowered.

  • 05.14.2004 7:34 AM PDT
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HERE are the main factors in everyone's theories on the return of the Pistol and Assault Rifle:

* 1) You think it or they will come back, based on storyline importance, because it's impossible to re-issue an entire new line of standard-issue rifles.

* 2) You think they're gone, for gameplay's sake, to balance out everything.

* 3) You're skeptic, because you feel the AR is way too close a mix between an SMG and the new BR. If made, perhaps, more accurate and powerful, it'd be a scopeless, full-auto BR. Also, the BR is just a less-powerful, more accurate pistol.

* 4) You're an ass and will accept whatever comes to you, bringing it then to the Covie hordes the instant it ships.

Now, here's MY theory, slightly revised:

The AR and M6D will return. For the sake of storyline purposes (they can't simply DISAPPEAR) and because the only skepticism is based on the fact that we HAVEN'T SEEN THEM YET. We simply have NOT seen the pistol, the MA5B, nor even the shotgun or flamethrower or fuel rod gun.

Like i said earlier, people, we have 6 MORE MONTHS to wait for everything - for all we know, we simply haven't seen these weapons because they're not DONE YET. We haven't seen the BAnshee, Shadow, Scorpion, or 4-wheeler / ATV (some think of the 'Hog as the ATV) in gameplay - they're simply NOT DONE. Period.

Patience, my brethren. Patience.


EDIT: How come everyomne thinks we can intitute such a change with the current "tech" we (would) have in 2552? We're talking cold, hard STELL here, people!!!! CHRIST! To transport all that weaponry in a matter of weeks is IMPOSSIBLE. Maybe possible to institute within our major cities and crap, like in the '03 E3 demo, but NOT for the entire game!! TRANSPORT, in the PHYSICAL WORLD, is what wer'e talking about, NOT the advancement of technology. If you TRULY believe that we can move THAT MUCH MASS in such a short time, you must be thinking like, tranporter warp thingamajiggers, or rockets that circumnavigate the globe in minutes or some -blam!- like that. And what about TRAINING??!!! "Here, say goodbye to the very STAPLE of the UNSC, this is the new BATTLE RIFLE. Use the little scope thingy. Oh, and i HOPE you like semi-auto!! HAHAHA!!!!"

No. No, No, NO. We've simply seen so much of the Battle rifle because they're trying to make IT to Halo 2 what the AR was to Halo 1.

[Edited on 5/14/2004 7:47:58 AM]

  • 05.14.2004 7:41 AM PDT
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Maybe you didn't read my post. cold hard steel, try 72 TONS of cold hard steel. and the 11 mth window was INCLUDING training.

and training on a new weapon is pretty easy. Hell, I spent 6 days learning how to shoot the m9, the m4, the 50 cal, and the .240! that's dissasembling, reasembling, loading, aiming, firing, unloading, clearing, and cleaning. BTW: we can get a battle ready unit anywhere in the world in under 36 hours. Thats (for those who don't know) 14 tanks, 14 bradleys, 6 apaches, support vehilces, people, ammo, etc.

  • 05.14.2004 8:01 AM PDT
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No one has the right to say that the pistol is to strong. After watching the 2 E3 demos the battle rifle sure looks a lot more powerful.
Anyway there will be some kind of pistol in halo 2 maybe not the same one as we know but something along the lines.

  • 05.14.2004 8:03 AM PDT
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remember u dont know if it is the same year, MC and his spartan homies destroyed the "Unyielding Hyerophent" in First Strike. Then they also destroyed like 500 of their ships in the process (damn good work 4 like 7 ppl) so that da humans could get some time to prepare. that could be either 1,2,3 or a million years. after all, might hegemon the covenent may be, they cant reproduce 500 or more ships in like 1 year, plus there were a bunch of damaged ships to be repared, they probably lost countless copied A.I.s

Since Eric worked with Bungie's story ppl directly I think this will tie into the story.

  • 05.14.2004 8:10 AM PDT
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Hikaru, gameplay is ALWAYS more important than the story


WRONG! STORY IS KING STORY OWNS ALL! ANY GAME YOU WOULD HAVE MADE WOULD SUCK KUZ IT HAD NO STORY! STORY IS KING FOOL!

  • 05.14.2004 8:13 AM PDT
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Dee - first, i'd like to compliment your wisdom in modern military might. Without yours and a few others' posts, we'd certainly be charging blindly into anothert flame war. So thanks, for your input.

NOW for my retort. We must remember, that we also have colonies and forces out THERE which need re-fitting. .......actually...they're all.....gone.... arent't they.......

I give up. I give up on the whole realistic-transport and refitting thing. But i swear, if the AR and Pistol are gone, i've lost some small fraction of respect for Bungie. BUT i know they haven't, so THERE!!

ROCK ON, GUYS!


EDIT: I'd like to take this chance to revive my earlier theories on 1) the "left-overs" of the AR and M6D, even WITH the re-issuing of new BRs, and the potential that we MELTED THE -blam!-S DOWN, putting a twist on what GM did for WW2 with the Grease Gun. Anyone ever play the Half-Life MOD Day of Defeat? Kick-ass game, and certainly a good comparison argument for those who care more about gameplay than story. or purpose in gaming.

[Edited on 5/14/2004 8:21:21 AM]

  • 05.14.2004 8:16 AM PDT
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Feh... Forget this, too many folks who think they are knowledge incarnates on these forums.

Who the hell told you they were replacing the M16 with the M4? They're supplementary; they're replacing the M16, M4, and M249 with the XM8, and AFAIK the OICW project was scrapped.

  • 05.14.2004 8:28 AM PDT

Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: Hikaru 119
1.) Counter Strike is multiplayer and MP only from what I know. You don't need storyline for a -blam!- MP game.

gonna go old school on you. what about the doom and quake series? i'm not alone in saying that there was some serious lacking in plot with those games.

Well, if we're going old-school, then let's at least keep it in the Bungie-verse, please? What about PiD, the Marathon series and the Myth series? They all had storylines that affected the gameplay, and they are still being played. When was the last time you played some Doom?

I don't think they would have taken out the pistol and assault rifle - they have most probably just tweaked them and made them available in only a few levels or something (please don't say that the weapons changed from Marathon 1 to Marathon 2 - Durandal got the S'pht to improve upon them, as is described in the M2 manual, and they were readily available, being created right there on Boomer). At least, that's what I'm hoping.

- Reiginko

  • 05.14.2004 8:45 AM PDT

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