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Subject: Does Bungie care about its older fans?
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Do they care? Yes.

Do they have any "veterans"? Not exactly.

Their new IP is basically a restart. We will all be new players in it. Just glad that 10 years from now I might be an Elder Member -_-.

  • 11.10.2011 7:32 PM PDT

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I'm not sure. Most users have requested changes to reach, and never got them. They lost so many player because of that. For 343 all you have to do is ask on there forums and they'll make the change if enough people ask. My point is bungie wouldn't change a game for there fans, maybe they will in the future.

  • 11.10.2011 7:38 PM PDT

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I would imagine that Bungie wants to keep all their fans if possible. New ones will show up as some sort of fade out also.

~Delta

  • 11.10.2011 7:39 PM PDT

More like Bungie doesn't about the regular members. They only respond to Blue or Orange Bars...

  • 11.10.2011 7:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: machinimagames
For 343 all you have to do is ask on there forums and they'll make the change if enough people ask.

If that were true, Reach would be ruined. Have you read some of the ideas on that site?

  • 11.10.2011 7:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: xDarkomantis
More like Bungie doesn't about the regular members. They only respond to Blue or Orange Bars...
Whoah, Orange bars?! I want.

  • 11.10.2011 7:54 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC


Posted by: Stuckers

Posted by: machinimagames
For 343 all you have to do is ask on there forums and they'll make the change if enough people ask.

If that were true, Reach would be ruined. Have you read some of the ideas on that site?


Bungie used to cater to the forums members. Now they dont care to much for us unless its some lame thread about them or facial hair.

  • 11.10.2011 8:03 PM PDT

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The thing which comes to mind as I read this thread, is an extract from George Orwell's novel - Animal Farm (slightly altered):

All fans are equal, but some fans are more equal than others

What determines an older fan? Is it how long they have played games from a specific franchise, or their join time on a community site?

In fact, how is one fan greater than another? Does older mean better? does it mean there opinion or view is a higher priority than others?

Been part of the Bungie franchise for 10 years. I don't see why I should be given special priority for anything - even over younger members.

  • 11.10.2011 8:17 PM PDT

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I work for the Department of Defense.

I'd love to know why they seemingly gave up with Halo Reach. 343i had to come in and be like "It's ok guys, we're here to help this travesty".

A lot of people like reach, and way more hate it. That pisses me off. I ask myself often, "Did Bungie just stop caring? Or did Microsoft somehow tighten the noose around their necks?".

Obviously they care in some way about the fans, I don't really know of many companies that literally don't care at all about fans; though it has indeed felt like they really ran o ut of steam in the end.

I am also pretty sure I would cater to more veteran members simply because I'm like that. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else, just that if I were in the position, I would be more inclined to care about the voice of someone who has been a fan for quite some time.

  • 11.10.2011 8:23 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
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A mix of both, I suppose.
I was talking with one of the higher-ups from DigiPen (google it, kids). He said something along the lines of, "We go through a lot of -blam!- to make games. Sometimes they don't do well, and sometimes we have to milk a franchise before we can get a new break or a new boss. We (developers) love what we do in the end, but we also have to put food on the table at the end of the day."

I would hope that Bungie is looking to achieve a balance between making money, and keeping fans (old and new) around, instead of looking for JUST customers.

A good example of Bungie caring for older fans is Master Chief's name. John 117 isn't from the Bible verse. It's actually from Hamish Sinclair's name. A level in Marathon, "Hats off to 819" references Sinclair, and 117*7 is 819.

Even Louis Wu (Claude Errera) had part of Reach named after him.

I can only hope this stuff continues. Reach is worlds away from the original Halo, let alone Marathon or Myth. I have no solution, but like I said, I hope that the balance is stuck, and the appreciation Bungie fans have shown is returned (not like it hasn't).

  • 11.10.2011 8:29 PM PDT

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Bungie is a business the goal of a business is to make money, not much needs to be said beyond that.

  • 11.10.2011 8:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: dmg04
This thread reminds me of Reptilian Rob.
I just wanted to pop in and say that the above reply made me giggle like a little school girl.

  • 11.10.2011 8:37 PM PDT
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I'd like to believe that they value their hardcore fans, but its still their goal (as it should be w/ every game developer) to gain new fans and build the overall fanbase to sell their products.

I noticed that the friends I had in college that I played Halo: CE religiously with, simply didn't get into Reach. Few actually bought the title. I can contribute this to their lives moving past video games and/or their taste in games changing. For example, my brother prefers the CoD games since he only has time to jump in and play for a short while before his family demands his time.

I'd like to think that they would value those older players that they gripped back then, try to stay familiar, and break new ground to bring in everyone to their franchise...old and new fans alike.

  • 11.10.2011 8:41 PM PDT
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Well... you do know how a lot of "old fans" (Are you talking about halo CE or marathon old?) look to the past with misty eyes and a runny nose.

If you ask me, Reach was great; especially in it's uniqueness to the other halo games.

[Edited on 11.10.2011 8:48 PM PST]

  • 11.10.2011 8:47 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC


Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: dmg04
This thread reminds me of Reptilian Rob.
I just wanted to pop in and say that the above reply made me giggle like a little school girl.


Waiting for Lord Snakie to bandwagon jump into control mode to remedy the situation.

  • 11.10.2011 8:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Zealot Tony
In fact, how is one fan greater than another? Does older mean better? does it mean there opinion or view is a higher priority than others?

Been part of the Bungie franchise for 10 years. I don't see why I should be given special priority for anything - even over younger members.
Because older fans come complete with an already existing network of other people. To use tihs thread as an example, if you had the time and inclination to do so you could plot all sorts of fun charts of who's played with who. All other things being equal, I'd pefer to buy a game with this network in it than without it, as playing with people you know is generally more fun than playing with randoms. New fans are always going to come in because to be entirely blunt, people are stupid and will hop on whatever new fad comes along. But alienating older fans means there is a far bigger effort involved in keeping a core body of players once the sheen of the game has worn off. Much easier to slot into an existing network than it is to start from the ground up.

To apply this in particular to Reach playlists, larger playlists such as BTB will probably do better if you have a core of groups of players who play in it. It gives it the mass to sustain itself. But those groups are probably most generally made up of longer term fans who've networked together. Doing things to push those groups away means that smaller groups/individual players are also disadvantged, and if they happen to be the type who really only are playing a game for a certain niche type environment-for example I don't especially care for anything smaller than BTB-they'll leave. Making decisions to please those groups is beneficial, as they'll stick around, and that should carry over into the broader pool.

/rambling.

  • 11.10.2011 8:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Telec
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Can't see why they should, at least any more so than any other potential customer.
A fan of some time is simply someone who has given them more money over the course of however many years. By that, Amazon.co.uk should be sending me a box of muffins on my birthday, given the frequency with which I use them. They don't because they don't care who is giving them their custom. As long as it is there and they are making profit - everybody is happy.
The same can probably be said of any developer. In reality a fan is simply a customer you can expect to purchase your next product. You don't want to piss them off, because they are a reliable sale, but at the same time they're just one in however many million.
You may get developers arguing that they truly care about their fans, to which I doubt they'd bother to ever make the distinction between new and old, and sentimentally they may well have a level of regard for their fanbase, but as you ask:
It seemed like a lot of older fans didn't get into Halo Reach. Is this overlooked because of the influx of new fans?
If I were a dev, I'd simply view it as typical fan turnover. Old get bored or the product changes to no longer suit them - newer replacements fill in for them.
If you're trying to grow a community, I'd think that you'd need to rely on the older fans to provide that level of stability, in which case you should definitely care about their interests as they are performing a vital service in what you're trying to accomplish.
So depends on Bungie's goals tbh

  • 11.10.2011 8:54 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: Nerd Boi
I don't think it was a rambling post, I think it was a well thought out one ;)

In all honesty, I too would rather enjoy games with a network of veteran players, who are just as zealous for the franchise as I.

But is it right for a community to move "newer" players under the living room mattress, solely to cater for the needs of the older ones and vice versa?

A utopian community should consist of players (particularly) fans, new and old, who are listened to on equal terms. The thing is, no matter what changes are made (or benefits are provided), you cannot give everyone what they want.

[Edited on 11.10.2011 9:20 PM PST]

  • 11.10.2011 9:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Skibur
It seemed like a lot of older fans didn't get into Halo Reach. Is this overlooked because of the influx of new fans?

I most likely scared them all away in my drunken rants on XBL.

  • 11.10.2011 9:26 PM PDT

See the great thing is, which was one of my points, that getting into that network is a fairly easy thing. Make a friend, play some games with them, they know someone else who knows someone else and before you know it you're in a party with the whos who of bungie.net and wetting yourself because zomg its a mod/employee <.<

But that is a network that has been anything up to 10 years in the making now, and I imagine it'd be a chore to build it back up again. Ideally there would be a balance, but I'd stand by the possibly harsh statement that new people are a dime a dozen as long as you're putting out a shiny new game, and unless you do it horribly wrong in which case you'll lose older fans anyway, they won't be hugely picky about things as long as it is new and shiny. Some will, but on balance I think I'd prefer to not grab a potential fan rather than lose an existing one. It is easy to attract new people, rather harder to win them back once you've pushed them away.

EDIT: Of course there probably is a point at which listening to the grouchy old folk of here is outweighed by the masses out there, but eh.

[Edited on 11.10.2011 9:34 PM PST]

  • 11.10.2011 9:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Th1ckestSausag3
Get ya popcorn and eat the thickest dick if you think I would waste time lyin to any of u.

Maybe a little, tiny bit more. Like we get blue bars and sometimes they give out map pack codes to well established groups on bungie.net. Other than that, we're all just a part of another paycheck.

  • 11.10.2011 10:45 PM PDT

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Posted by: Sp Dark Killer
Bungie is a business the goal of a business is to make money, not much needs to be said beyond that.

This.

  • 11.10.2011 10:49 PM PDT
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Fans moving on from a game company (or its website) is the rule, not the exception. Need new blood to replace the old. While it's nice to see nods to earlier games and a simpler time, they still need to evolve and adapt or get left behind. What brought those of us in years ago holds a special place in our gaming hearts for what it was at the time. Trying to replicate that is difficult to do, and some might even believe it could tarnish a franchise.

Bungie does a solid job at trying to retain fans, but they can only do so much. Sometimes the break-up is not them, its us.

  • 11.10.2011 11:08 PM PDT

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Your point on Reach made me chuckle a bit. Perhaps our preconceptions about Bungie titles lead to this outcome.

I've noticed a lot of unbacked opinions being thrown around. While speculation is good for discussion, certainty is nowhere to be found. Additionally, Bungie may not even work as a company with a mindset, but rather as a group of individuals with varied goals and values. But since everyone's adding their opinions, I might as well mention a bit of my own.

Bungie does not make games for profit or for their fans, but rather with objective purpose. While the meaning behind of their games can be more difficult to pick up on, some are more obvious than others. For instance, the Halo series was actually a subtle and yet thorough criticism of the historically brutal nature of popular religion.

  • 11.10.2011 11:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Telec
Remember kids: when Uncle Delta tells you he has sweeties, he isn't lying.

Now get in the van.


The Black Chapter


Posted by: Duck duck DEATH

Bungie does not make games for profit or for their fans, but rather with objective purpose. While the meaning behind of their games can be more difficult to pick up on, some are more obvious than others.


Uh.....

For instance, the Halo series was actually a subtle and yet thorough criticism of the historically brutal nature of popular religion.

For profit

  • 11.10.2011 11:52 PM PDT

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