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Subject: Are Spartans better warriors than the sangheili?

They come now... and they take us... the tide rises.


Posted by: GnadeMasta

Posted by: Spartan319

Becouse you as an American, have a great military tradiction.


Because I'm american, I have ignorant arrogance?

Most other cultures have THOUSANDS OF YEARS of existence.

America is NOT EVEN 250 YEARS OLD. Sure, our nation was forged in fire. Whose wasn't? Britain has a long history battling it out with more powerful neighbors, and then fighting years and years with France.

Germany very nearly took over Europe if it hadn't been for Japan.

So many other cultures have just as much of a history of fighting... MORE of a history, than America. Your ignorance on this subject is what makes me cringe to be an American citizen.

A warrior is something that is self evident. Every soldier in the army is a warrior fighting for what they believe is right.


What? Ignorance? You? I never say that.
And i know, italians are born in blood and fire in the Social War between Italic allieds and Rome two thousand and three hundred years ago c.ca. We have one of the best military tradiction in the world. But, USA have much more. USA armies are governed and faithfull like our ancient god times.
But so few nations in the world have win a World War without a real support aganist so many enemies like USA. You must consider that, you must accept that. USA is the new Roman Empire now.
We are too old for rule the world again, it's your turn now.

  • 11.13.2011 11:45 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The United States entered both World Wars relatively late after the main nations did most of the fighting.

  • 11.13.2011 11:47 AM PDT

They come now... and they take us... the tide rises.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The United States entered both World Wars relatively late after the main nations did most of the fighting.


I know, i remember.
But no other nations have the same possibilities like USA.
And... you dont think i forgot what it happened at my nation when you americans have arrived here.
You have behaved much better than our "allies".

  • 11.13.2011 11:49 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

I'd say Elites are better as a whole, they have the same methodology that Spartans have, like training since they are infants and the likes, and as opposed to Spartans that exercise within a somewhat safety environment (Aka, friendly sparring matches between each other and the likes) Sangheili training can cause death, that way the weak ones are discarded and the strong individuals prevail...

That and that they do not need any sort of augmentation applied to them :P

  • 11.13.2011 4:53 PM PDT

United Armed Forces


Posted by: Spartan319

Posted by: GnadeMasta

Posted by: Spartan319

Becouse you as an American, have a great military tradiction.


Because I'm american, I have ignorant arrogance?

Most other cultures have THOUSANDS OF YEARS of existence.

America is NOT EVEN 250 YEARS OLD. Sure, our nation was forged in fire. Whose wasn't? Britain has a long history battling it out with more powerful neighbors, and then fighting years and years with France.

Germany very nearly took over Europe if it hadn't been for Japan.

So many other cultures have just as much of a history of fighting... MORE of a history, than America. Your ignorance on this subject is what makes me cringe to be an American citizen.

A warrior is something that is self evident. Every soldier in the army is a warrior fighting for what they believe is right.


What? Ignorance? You? I never say that.
And i know, italians are born in blood and fire in the Social War between Italic allieds and Rome two thousand and three hundred years ago c.ca. We have one of the best military tradiction in the world. But, USA have much more. USA armies are governed and faithfull like our ancient god times.
But so few nations in the world have win a World War without a real support aganist so many enemies like USA. You must consider that, you must accept that. USA is the new Roman Empire now.
We are too old for rule the world again, it's your turn now.


History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

The only reason we won either world war is because we were able to join late and have Axis and Central Powers be assaulted on more than one side.

But enough of this stupidity. This has nothing to do with the topic.

Answer is: Neither. "Better Warrior" is completely subjective.

  • 11.13.2011 6:07 PM PDT

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The Spartan are probably the only kind of warrior who can withstand an Elite, but the Elites share more honnor, and honnor is what really makes a warrior a warrior.

  • 11.13.2011 6:14 PM PDT

United Armed Forces

What is honnor?

  • 11.13.2011 6:15 PM PDT
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Yes.

  • 11.13.2011 6:37 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: blade246
The Spartan are probably the only kind of warrior who can withstand an Elite, but the Elites share more honnor, and honnor is what really makes a warrior a warrior.


Brutes would like to have a word with you.

  • 11.13.2011 6:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Arbiter8282
Elites glass planets, killing innocent civilians and they kill them on the ground too. Elites also love active camo which is a sissy move. I dont see any honor in that


thats just using tactics. modern soldiers wear camoflage. also, the americans dropped a nuke on harishima to win the second world war, but they are generally not considered sissys

  • 11.13.2011 6:59 PM PDT

Why are you here?

There must have been at least millions of elites. If they were as all good as the average Spartan, the UNSC would have had no chance of winning.

  • 11.13.2011 7:10 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: blade246
The Spartan are probably the only kind of warrior who can withstand an Elite, but the Elites share more honnor, and honnor is what really makes a warrior a warrior.

Honour is completely subjective beyond courage.

  • 11.14.2011 10:09 AM PDT


Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
There must have been at least millions of elites. If they were as all good as the average Spartan, the UNSC would have had no chance of winning.


There must have been thousands of stormtroopers for each rebel trooper. Stormtroopers were the best soldiers in the star wars galaxy at the time, and the rebels won ground engagements.

  • 11.14.2011 10:27 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
There must have been at least millions of elites. If they were as all good as the average Spartan, the UNSC would have had no chance of winning.


There must have been thousands of stormtroopers for each rebel trooper. Stormtroopers were the best soldiers in the star wars galaxy at the time, and the rebels won ground engagements.

What is the point in creating an enemy so powerful that you know the protagonists cannot win, when you want the protagonists to win in your story?

If the Elites were supposed to be better than Spartans, then they would be and the Spartans would lose almost every ground battle, and the UNSC would be crushed.

  • 11.14.2011 10:40 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
There must have been at least millions of elites. If they were as all good as the average Spartan, the UNSC would have had no chance of winning.


There must have been thousands of stormtroopers for each rebel trooper. Stormtroopers were the best soldiers in the star wars galaxy at the time, and the rebels won ground engagements.

What is the point in creating an enemy so powerful that you know the protagonists cannot win, when you want the protagonists to win in your story?

If the Elites were supposed to be better than Spartans, then they would be and the Spartans would lose almost every ground battle, and the UNSC would be crushed.


I never said that, however I must point out that a few times it's be described as Spartans and Elites mostly being equals. Certainly doesn't mean what so many try to spin that because Spartans survived/won on the ground that means Elites are -blam!- compared to them.

Besides, we can argue all day about how the UNSC should've lost all the battles because the Covenant's advanced tech.

  • 11.14.2011 10:52 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I never said that, however I must point out that a few times it's be described as Spartans and Elites mostly being equals. Certainly doesn't mean what so many try to spin that because Spartans survived/won on the ground that means Elites are -blam!- compared to them.

I just do not understand this logic though. This would mean that nothing could be shown to be better or worse than any other thing. If copper conducts better than rubber every single time, then it is a superior conductor. If a Bugatti Veyron beats a Ford Fiesta every time in a race, then it is a superior motor. If someone consistently scores higher than someone else in a test, then they are better at understanding that material.

If Spartans never lose on the ground when Elites are almost certainly present most if not all of the time, then... ?

If Spartans and Elites were equals, then the death tolls and wins on both sides would be fair game. This is not reflected in the Spartan's 4 deaths (Only 2 killed in battle...) and practically zero losses (If any) in the 27 years of war against the Elites.

I think the point was that Elites are as physically strong as Spartans. Not as fast or intelligent, or as tactically brilliant.

Also, Elites would have made better Reclaimers in that case, if they were as smart and creative as Spartans. That would only make them on average smarter than...what? 99.99999% of Humanity in that case? Seems illogical given the way things are. (Their smartest cannot analyse and solve an Arum in less than a few days. Phillips does it in hours having never seen one before. Think of how the Elites would rank against the intellect and creativity of the Spartans in that case...)

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides, we can argue all day about how the UNSC should've lost all the battles because the Covenant's advanced tech.

A Desert Eagle is a superior weapon to a crossbow. Yet a crossbow in the hands of a trained marksman is more deadly than a Desert Eagle in the hands of a Toddler.

  • 11.14.2011 11:27 AM PDT

The thing with Philips though, was that Arum was from Telcam with a message. So it could have been rigged to be easier so the message is guaranteed to reach him before it's too late.

My point is, we don't know the details of most of the battles in the war. We know the trend, but I personally find it utterly retarded for people to act as if you place a Spartan in the room, they will always come out successful, and nothing can beat them. Or that Spartans are literally the single best trained force in the galaxy and cannot be harmed or bested.

In history we see equal, or better trained foes get killed by their enemies.

In one battle that comes to mind, an army of Knights (I think they were french, not sure) were completely bested by English Peasants wielding longbows, simply because of how the battlefield was. So, the situations in those battles may be suited for the defenders or humans more then the Elites.

So, it comes down to the situation...

  • 11.14.2011 12:00 PM PDT
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I never thought this thread would become so popular

  • 11.14.2011 12:06 PM PDT

Hand to hand an Elite definatly, but with a weapon (except an energy sword or maybe garvity hammer) the Spartan definatley.

  • 11.14.2011 12:41 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Alfdog
Hand to hand an Elite definatly, but with a weapon (except an energy sword or maybe garvity hammer) the Spartan definatley.


This isn't opposite day which means stupid comments aren't actually smart.

  • 11.14.2011 12:44 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Alfdog
Hand to hand an Elite definatly, but with a weapon (except an energy sword or maybe garvity hammer) the Spartan definatley.


This isn't opposite day which means stupid comments aren't actually smart.


Just shut the -blam!- up.

  • 11.14.2011 12:46 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Alfdog

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Alfdog
Hand to hand an Elite definatly, but with a weapon (except an energy sword or maybe garvity hammer) the Spartan definatley.


This isn't opposite day which means stupid comments aren't actually smart.


Just shut the -blam!- up.


Hand to hand spartans do indeed win but nearly every winning encounter has been against a low ranking elite (minor).

Why do you think a spartan would win using a hammer or a sword? neither weapon was created for a human to use; john would have lost to Thel on the ship in sword combat had he not gotten lucky.

  • 11.14.2011 12:48 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The thing with Philips though, was that Arum was from Telcam with a message. So it could have been rigged to be easier so the message is guaranteed to reach him before it's too late.

But he solved Jul's one in under a few hours, and then solved several in under 30 minutes before getting to 'Telcam's one.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
My point is, we don't know the details of most of the battles in the war. We know the trend, but I personally find it utterly retarded for people to act as if you place a Spartan in the room, they will always come out successful, and nothing can beat them. Or that Spartans are literally the single best trained force in the galaxy and cannot be harmed or bested.

In history we see equal, or better trained foes get killed by their enemies.

In one battle that comes to mind, an army of Knights (I think they were french, not sure) were completely bested by English Peasants wielding longbows, simply because of how the battlefield was. So, the situations in those battles may be suited for the defenders or humans more then the Elites.

So, it comes down to the situation...

Would the peasants always have the hill? Without it, I doubt they would win. In the same way, I doubt the Spartans always had their "hill" (E.g. Terrain, Weapons, vehicles, Stealth etc) but their track record remains the same. Even if they did have the advantage every time, it is a testament to how well prepared, efficient and intelligent they are in that they ensure they always have the advantage in battle. If they always go for the high ground, and the Elites always charge up to their inevitable slaughter, I think it is clear who are the better tacticians in that case. If Spartans choose stealth rather than a direct frontal assault, as opposed to the Elite's method of charging the defences, that is better tactical planning. Spartans are trained to view the enemy as battlefield weapons caches; they are trained to think out of the box and creatively. Turning things to their advantage is what makes you a better commander.

  • 11.14.2011 12:55 PM PDT

No I think the Elite is better at hand to hand and the Sparatan is better with weapons.

  • 11.14.2011 12:57 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Alfdog
No I think the Elite is better at hand to hand and the Sparatan is better with weapons.


What you think doesn't matter nor is it relevant.

Just because people think The TO is a precursor doesn't mean it is.

  • 11.14.2011 12:59 PM PDT

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