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This topic has moved here: Subject: Titles are Too Ambiguous and Prominent: Alternatives to Title System
  • Subject: Titles are Too Ambiguous and Prominent: Alternatives to Title System
Subject: Titles are Too Ambiguous and Prominent: Alternatives to Title System

Basically, I make the best topics ever.

Feedback!
Duardo: This thread is locked for being stupid.
cortana 5 : It's perpetually my time of the month and I'm just grouchy.
Foman: I see absolutely no reason, either theoretical or practical, that this is not a superb idea. Excellent work, my friend.

Daza pretty much turned this topic upside down with his idea, which I actually find far more favorable than mine, so I'm going to replace my OP with his basic idea. More info can be found on the second page.

Posted by: dazarobbo
IMO, scrap titles and put the trust rating toward something functional, like privileges. People are more likely to behave if they fear losing useful, shiny things like that.

Make things "unlockable", so-to-speak. For example, once you earn x amount of trust, you can use a certain avatar.

Others:

- Ability to create a group
- Ability to create a thread
- Ability to create a thread with a poll
- Ability to post images within a thread
- Ability to report
etc...

It's difficult to think of examples when we have no idea what the next version of Bungie.net will look like or include, but you can probably see what I'm getting at.

ORIGINAL OP
I know I don't make serious topics too often, but I'm gonna give it a shot...

UPDATE: Ok, I get that color is a HUGE issue for people. Remember, this is only an idea, so take it for what it is. I'm sure the designers could think of ways to preserve the color of titles while reducing the impact they have on discussional value.

Any member that's roamed these parts for more than few days knows that titles are a problem. Whether it's complaints that they shouldn't exist or newer members spam-posting in order to obtain a higher title, a problem exists. Most members realize after a year or two that one's title bears absolutely no relation to the content of a post, but there are still a few that feel the need to quote every mythic/ninja/employee that posts, completely removing all discussion value and derailing a topic.

That said, titles do serve a very prominent purpose: it gives older and more active members a bit of recognition and credibility. It is easy to find mods/employees in a topic and quickly find an official response to any given question. In my mind, this feature alone makes the title feature worth keeping.

But there are still problems to address. What is the first thing you see when you read a post? The user's title. It is unavoidable. The alternating shades of gray, bright blue, salmon, and gold are impossible to miss, especially with the colored text of the mods and employees. While I won't deny that this is a very cool feature for the site, it nonetheless colors the other user's interpretations of the post. Instead, I would suggest that all posts are nearly identical save the identifier next to the username that says "member/mythic member/Hates Toast." Titles are still easily visible, but they no longer detract from discussion the same way they do now.

In addition, the gold septagon next to every topic that an employee posts in often creates false discussion over on a topic that only really required a quick answer from an employee. In addition, many members will simply search the gold topics for the employee's post, quote them, and then make some lame joke that only serves to bump the topic back to the top, pushing other topics off the front page. Why not allow employees to choose if they would like to tag a topic as 'golden' or not? Instead of locking a topic, there would just need to be a link that an employee would hit to change the spacer image to that of a golden septagon instead of the default image. I don't think this would be too difficult to implement and it go a long way to reducing employee induced spam.

Finally, the titles themselves. They really don't mean anything. All we know is that a mythic member either a)posts a lot, b) has been here a while, or c) hasn't gotten banned for a while. While this is great, it would be nice to get a little background on why this particular member is so much more prominent than the 'lowly' regular members. What I would suggest is adding a tracker, either under each avatar or in the signature section, that counts how long the user has been a member of B.net, how many times he has posted, and perhaps even how many groups he has been in. I realize that bans and warnings would no longer have the same effect on member titles, so it might be helpful to add a counter for number of bans and warnings or last ban/warning as well. Most of you also know how much of a fan of the 'rep system' I am, and this would be a great place for it to reside, simple and out of the way.

I know Archy has said on multiple occasions that the Member Titles are ambiguous for a reason, but it is my humble opinion that this actually does more harm than good. It removes any credibility that higher members might have had by hiding the reasons behind their title and instead simply saying, "THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS."

TL;DR Version
Change this to this.

I realize that this probably isn't feasible for the current site, but maybe for the next update...? Thoughts?

Thanks acnboy34 for 'letting' me make up info about you and throw it above your sig.


Other Ideas:
Posted by: Geegs30
If anything, perhaps give them the option to turn off/on their colored text. That way, if they want to come across as just a regular forum goer and contribute to a discussion without derailing it with a potential quote spree, they can do that. When they are letting people know why a topic was locked or answering questions about the site, etc., they can enable their colored text and stand out easily.

Thoughts on this?

Posted by: dazarobbo
IMO, scrap titles and put the trust rating toward something functional, like privileges. People are more likely to behave if they fear losing useful, shiny things like that.

Posted by: SonicJohn
On my site, we're about to start experimenting with an on-site profile marketplace of sorts, where you spend your points (received through posts, thread-making, medals from our Flash games, etc) on things like avatars, preset custom titles, postbox-themes, website CSS themes, unlockable content in the Flash games, amongst other things.

It's basically lke cR in Reach, but on a website. I think it'll make our members feel a lot more invested in the site, shaping it to be their own experience. It can be done in a way that doesn't go to the scary lengths that Coup can go to, and that's down to the very simple fact that we can choose what goes up there to be purchased with their points.

It'll be some time before we get that up and running though, since CAVX has decided to go all srs and get married and have a job and stuff.

But, Bungie should totally invest in something like that. If that were to replace the current setup, it'd be fantastic.
Posted by: Yax
Posted by: dazarobbo
IMO, scrap titles and put the trust rating toward something functional, like privileges. People are more likely to behave if they fear losing useful, shiny things like that.
You should list off some example privleges. All I can think of is a religious/political discussion forum.

Posted by: sharpace77
While I like SonicJohn's idea, I think the idea of spending points would take away from the trust system too much. If a feature like this were to be implemented, I think unlocks would need to be set in stone and not unlocked through points. In addition, users should start with a base-rating of 0 where they can still report and use basic functionality, but once they got in the negatives, features started disappearing. This would give a lot more credibility to warnings.


[Edited on 11.23.2011 9:18 AM PST]

  • 11.22.2011 8:43 PM PDT
Subject: Titles are Too Ambiguous and Prominent

We're concerned

Cafe|MLP: FiM|Bnet Regulars|FCAW
Got a question, comment, or concern? PM me.

Nah. It makes the site too bland and depressing.

  • 11.22.2011 8:46 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Member

I agree with the tl;dr.

However, there's no need for "rep", and the days banned could be changed to hours for lolz (and a more accurate representation).

  • 11.22.2011 8:46 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

You say that titles encourage new members to spam posts but suggest implementing a post count?

As for employees, I feel they should have the option to add the gold septagon next to a topic. If it just them contributing to a random discussion in the flood they wouldn't but if it was actual information about their game then they would. Idk. I like having some kind of notification telling me that a thread might have some interesting information.

I don't really pay much attention to titles myself though so I don't have much to contribute to this topic. I couldn't care less about what happens to them.

  • 11.22.2011 8:53 PM PDT

Basically, I make the best topics ever.

Feedback!
Duardo: This thread is locked for being stupid.
cortana 5 : It's perpetually my time of the month and I'm just grouchy.
Foman: I see absolutely no reason, either theoretical or practical, that this is not a superb idea. Excellent work, my friend.

Posted by: Seven
You say that titles encourage new members to spam posts but suggest implementing a post count?
Definitely. You have to understand the difference between having a glaringly obvious, always visible title and one line of hidden text. While I'm sure there would be plenty of users who would still spam, I think the benefits of giving users credibility based on their actions rather than some invisible criteria outweighs the repercussions.

  • 11.22.2011 8:57 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Sharpy, what are you posting now? Everyone loves color. Besides, if there weren't gold text, how would we know what to read and what to ignore?

  • 11.22.2011 9:03 PM PDT

Thesaurus.com

I find great irony in your coup and the OP.

Titles are fine to me.

I make around 9 posts a day, and I keep my title. It doesn't really mean much, but I do remember wanting one back when I first joined the site. I certainly didn't spam my way to it.

Giving credibility based on actions (I.E. post quality) is something that requires human monitoring, not something an automated system can do.

  • 11.22.2011 9:07 PM PDT

Basically, I make the best topics ever.

Feedback!
Duardo: This thread is locked for being stupid.
cortana 5 : It's perpetually my time of the month and I'm just grouchy.
Foman: I see absolutely no reason, either theoretical or practical, that this is not a superb idea. Excellent work, my friend.

Posted by: xXIHAYD0IXx
Sharpy, what are you posting now? Everyone loves color. Besides, if there weren't gold text, how would we know what to read and what to ignore?
Always comin' in and trollin' my topics Haydo.

Besides different shads of gray do not count as colors, so for the most part, the site would remain unchanged. As for the employee/ninja posts, you could always use ctrl+f, it's what I do right now anyway.

Posted by: R3ACTlON
I find great irony in your coup and the OP.

Titles are fine to me.

I make around 9 posts a day, and I keep my title. It doesn't really mean much, but I do remember wanting one back when I first joined the site. I certainly didn't spam my way to it.

Giving credibility based on actions (I.E. post quality) is something that requires human monitoring, not something an automated system can do.
Ahh yes I almost forgot about my coup. That was back from my 'semi-mythic members topic which was actually making fun of how inadequate the title system is.

And just because you didn't spam doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This is especially prominent in the flood and reach forums.

As for the credibility based on actions, other forums use the rep system perfectly fine. It works great. Users +1 rep if the find a post helpful and -1 rep if they find it to be a nuisance. I really don't understand the issue with that.

[Edited on 11.22.2011 9:11 PM PST]

  • 11.22.2011 9:08 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member

Titles are an incentive to follow the rules. "Rep" is not too much of an incentive, and post count encourages more spam than titles do because you can break the rules but still look like a good poster if you have thousands of posts. You'd be going about it all wrong to switch things up like this.

  • 11.22.2011 9:10 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I honestly couldn't disagree with you more. The fact that you're saying that most new members spam to get higher titles is both insulting and wrong. The amount of new members who spam posts to get a higher title are so marginal and minuscule that it's hardly a demographic even worth talking about.

I'm a new member. I made this account today. Yet all my posts thus far have been substantial posts, barring the quoting of a Disney song. I don't feel invited to spam to get a higher title. It's glaringly obvious that titles are for fun, and anyone that takes them seriously is obviously just not getting it. If you don't like titles, ignore them. They only take up, at most a sixth of someone's post.

Stop complaining about a feature meant to add a little variety and incentive for good behavior.

  • 11.22.2011 9:11 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Posted by: sharpace77
Besides different shads of gray do not count as colors, so for the most part, the site would remain unchanged. As for the employee/ninja posts, you could always use ctrl+f, it's what I do right now anyway.
That's much more difficult. Besides, what would you say to all the Mythics when they lose that wonderful shade of blue.

  • 11.22.2011 9:11 PM PDT

Posted by: Dustin 6047
Troll confirmed. I never even insulted you

Posted by: Dustin 6047
OP - You're a dumbass with the reading comprehension skills of a second grader.


Can someone tell me what's wrong with these two, this made me LOL hard.

Looks bland and unappealing. I like the way it is now and I rarely see anyone's titlebars now.

  • 11.22.2011 9:12 PM PDT

i c u thar c' ing my signiture

Yours in _Kai_

There needs to be some color.

  • 11.22.2011 9:13 PM PDT

Then how will people be able to look at my big shiny blue shlo...title bar?

  • 11.22.2011 9:13 PM PDT

yas334229812

I agree but sadly it removes some of the colour. Anyway hope they can use their colour accounts for on topic discussions but for fun, use the normal grey letterbox.

  • 11.22.2011 9:14 PM PDT

Basically, I make the best topics ever.

Feedback!
Duardo: This thread is locked for being stupid.
cortana 5 : It's perpetually my time of the month and I'm just grouchy.
Foman: I see absolutely no reason, either theoretical or practical, that this is not a superb idea. Excellent work, my friend.

Posted by: Learn
Titles are an incentive to follow the rules. "Rep" is not too much of an incentive, and post count encourages more spam than titles do because you can break the rules but still look like a good poster if you have thousands of posts. You'd be going about it all wrong to switch things up like this.
That's not true at all. The title would still be there to represent a sort of average and the rep would show how favorable the member is. Posts are such as small aspect of how members are seen.
Posted by: DefiniteInfinity
I honestly couldn't disagree with you more. The fact that you're saying that most new members spam to get higher titles is both insulting and wrong. The amount of new members who spam posts to get a higher title are so marginal and minuscule that it's hardly a demographic even worth talking about.

I'm a new member. I made this account today. Yet all my posts thus far have been substantial posts, barring the quoting of a Disney song. I don't feel invited to spam to get a higher title. It's glaringly obvious that titles are for fun, and anyone that takes them seriously is obviously just not getting it. If you don't like titles, ignore them. They only take up, at most a sixth of someone's post.

Stop complaining about a feature meant to add a little variety and incentive for good behavior.

Chill bro, I'm not insulting you. I am pointing out a problem not picking on new members that are obviously a fine part of the community. Besides, there are plenty of old members that spam just as much.

First topic I open and here is part of the problem. People just posting to post. I can't guess at their individual motivations, but I do know that members want a higher title and are willing to spam to get it.

Also, I don't dislike titles. They provide an essential feature, as I pointed out in the OP. But that doesn't change the fact that they can take away from discussional value and do not give an accurate representation of credibility.

  • 11.22.2011 9:22 PM PDT

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke

They took out visible post counts & join dates ages ago because elitism reared its angry head...I think the new new new hotness (not sure which version of hotness it is these days) is a happy medium.

Balance aesthetic with functionality no?

  • 11.22.2011 9:24 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.


Posted by: sharpace77
Thanks acnboy34 for 'letting' me make up info about you and throw it above your sig.
Dude wat.

Oh. Erm, you're welcome. I suppose.

  • 11.22.2011 9:25 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

More titles and more pre-fixes are what we need.

  • 11.22.2011 9:25 PM PDT

Basically, I make the best topics ever.

Feedback!
Duardo: This thread is locked for being stupid.
cortana 5 : It's perpetually my time of the month and I'm just grouchy.
Foman: I see absolutely no reason, either theoretical or practical, that this is not a superb idea. Excellent work, my friend.

Ok, I get that color is a HUGE issue for people. Remember, I spent roughly 5 minutes on this and didn't take the time to make it look pretty, only get the idea across. I'm sure there are ways to preserve color while getting rid of the derailing that they create. Colored text maybe? Outlined avatars? There are other options...

  • 11.22.2011 9:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

That's because they're not meant to represent any sort of credibility. They're meant to represent the fact that he poster has met he criteria for achieving he title they have, and is rewarded by having it displays in their title bar.

You, OP, are one of those people who take title bars far too seriously. Once again, they are for fun. Nothing more, nothing less. The only titles that actually mean something are the forum ninja titles, and they're only here so people know who they can contact should there be a dispute with a moderation decision or something that needs to be taken care of via a moderation decision.

Even Bungie employees have meaningless and, quite simply, fun titles. Hell, Jeremiah's is Space Ninja. If that isn't an indication that titles mean nothing in a serious manner and are entirely for fun, then I dont know what does, OP.

  • 11.22.2011 9:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Dustin 6047
Troll confirmed. I never even insulted you

Posted by: Dustin 6047
OP - You're a dumbass with the reading comprehension skills of a second grader.


Can someone tell me what's wrong with these two, this made me LOL hard.


Posted by: sharpace77
Ok, I get that color is a HUGE issue for people. Remember, I spent roughly 5 minutes on this and didn't take the time to make it look pretty, only get the idea across. I'm sure there are ways to preserve color while getting rid of the derailing that they create. Colored text maybe? Outlined avatars? There are other options...
The background is blackish. The title of member is grayish, so grayish text for Members wouldn't help. Same with Blue since it's black and then dark blue text. I like the color of the bars. And at most, if that would happen, why not make mythics and legendaries own a custom avatar of their own?

  • 11.22.2011 9:33 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Posted by: sharpace77
I'm sure there are ways to preserve color while getting rid of the derailing that they create. Colored text maybe? Outlined avatars? There are other options...
Colored text is WAAAYYY less conspicuous than a title bar.

[Edited on 11.22.2011 9:36 PM PST]

  • 11.22.2011 9:33 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Independent of my view on titles, I don't believe any of the factors mentioned should grant a poster credibility.

As for the issue of recognition, this can often be achieved without any existing system of merit, as active communities will do this autonomously.

  • 11.22.2011 9:39 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Poy357
  • user homepage:

Doesn't really matter to me anyway. Besides, you could just use coup and make everybody look neutral.

  • 11.22.2011 9:40 PM PDT