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  • Subject: Newsflash to competitive players
Subject: Newsflash to competitive players

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: McCrash
he's still right about H3 being superior to Reach.

That's common sense.



Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Dwavenhobble
I keep calling MLG
Moaning
Little
Girls


Which is why everyone else will call you retarded.

Too true.



Posted by: McCrash
Or Halo3? since Microsoft does'nt want any glitches in their games?

Then all they would have to do is to find a way to take them out and that's assuming they would use the H2 engine, which would be highly surprising.

Then again, there will always be sort of "button" combo the devs didn't find and people might try to use.

  • 11.27.2011 6:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: S0ULJA PHARAOH
Why H2? They need to go back to H3 elements if anything.


Lol.....


Halo: CE is incontestably the most competitive Halo title to date. It is by far the most fun and long-lasting title of the series as can be evidenced by the number of people who still LAN or play on XB Connect as well as the 20 000 strong who continually enjoy the PC version. It was a game that not only rewarded aiming skill, but intelligence and multi-tasking, and thus the skilled individual. I speak for myself here - but I'm sure many will certainly agree - I am still learning something about the game despite having played it for the last 7 years. Whether we are talking about the intrinsics of the game such as more effective positioning and movement or helpful tricks like nade points. The game was the most dynamic of the Halo series, the most punishing, and the one with the fastest gameplay. I often hear people saying that Halo 3 and Reach were more team-oriented than Halo:CE. I can assure them that that is most definately wrong. At the highest level, teamwork is the most important. Thus, one must be able to separate teamwork from teamshot, the latter only being a component of the former. As far as teamwork is concerned, teamshooting is only the most basic form. In Halo:CE a teammate had to be able to manipulate and control the spawn system, nade camo or a weapon to his teammate, win the individual battle to secure the power position or weapon, flank, distract, you name it. Teamwork was natural, not forced upon like in later Halo games. This ultimately brings us to the major determining factor - the primary weapon. You spawned in Halo CE with a Weapon that was effective at all ranges and was able to punish careless players at long range. If you see an enemy, you can kill him, simple as that. There was no artificial pressure on the teamshooting aspect, the 3sk was guaranteed on an opponent travelling in a straight line. Unlike Halo 3, you couldn't have an opponent simply run across the open to secure the camo on Prisoner or Hang em High then rabbit hop and StrongSide back to safety. He would simply get gunned down. At the moment, I am not trying to detail the various ways a utility Weapon would advantage the competition, but simply how it affected the style of play. In Halo CE, the game relied on the players quick thinking and strategy. It promoted flanking and earning powerups. Powerups and Power-weapons had to be earned by killing the opponent, not running there first like on the Pit. This was simply because the pistol could kill effectively at all ranges very quickly. It was an organic, logical style of play that relied on intelligence principally and in-game knowledge. Not pushing forward on a thumbsick according to your teammates' callouts.

Halo 2 represents the first step in the wrong direction. With the creation of their second game, Bungie decided that having an effective long-range utility Weapon off of spawn was unacceptable.Apparently, there was this new notion that all weapons should be used equally. They restricted the range of the BR by making it a 3-shot burst Weapon with a lot of spread. Everybody detested that and Bungie fixed the spread after the patch. The starting Weapon is now accurate at long range, but doesn't kill quickly enough. Players can now escape away from you unless you have support. What happened in Halo 2 was the emergence of the setup and the support player. In Halo CE, there was no such thing as a support player. Teams didn t need one since everybody could take down opponents at long range. Instead, in Halo 2 you needed a player on Midship who would remain in the base and weaken people cross-map. The teamshot became primary rather than secondary, but an individual still played a rather important role. You could still 4-shot somebody across Lockout if he popped out too far. Medium-range 1v1 encounters still retained some form of aiming skill since the movement speed was fast and the spread restrained.Furthermore, it still took time and strategy and a deep understanding of the game to develop setups and counter-setups and how to break setups and when to push and when not to push and so on. You still needed your head to play and be successful.

And then came Halo 3. In the next instalment of the Halo series, Bungie said enough was enough. The concept of the utility Weapon had to be abolished once and for all. According to their vision, players should start with a weak starting Weapon (Mind you, this was also the philosophy in Halo 2 with the awful SMG starts.) and try to pick other weapons from there according to their preference. It's a vision that caters towards the casual players and has no competitive merit. The Halo 3 BR was made worse than that of Halo 2 pre-patch. It had significant spread and very slow kill times. It had been turned into a mid-range Weapon that had the ability to pin snipers. Now not only is it slow, but it is also inaccurate. It had by now become impossible to kill a shielded opponent cross-map. Your opponent could secure that OS in front of your eyes, without having to earn it by killing you. If a guy is too far for you to hit him, what is the solution? The aggressive push. That, my friends, is the single worst thing that has happened to Halo. The intelligent, dynamic, power-seeking style of play of Halo CE and the set-up of Halo 2 had been discarded since they no longer worked. You absolutely need teamshooting to kill a person at long-range - it's no longer natural, it's necessary. It is pathetic that I see PRO TEAMS securing the closed/open street hill on Construct by brute-forcing 3 guys up the purple lift. It is a mindless style of play that allows teams made up of less skilled individuals (Whether in the aiming or thinking department) to win games because they were able to have all four players pushing their left analog forward and shoot in unison. That's what Halo 3 really was near the end, and the linear agressiveness-playstyle was only encouraged with maps like Onslaught and Narrows. All there is to it is communication and a response in the way of moving your thumbstick in said direction.

As far as Halo:Reach is concerned, the philosophy was carried over. Slower movement speed, slow strafe speed, and this goes without telling: an ineffective utility gun. Many have the impression that the ulterior motive behind the bloom was to make it more skilful. But I ask you, since when has Bungie done something to the weapon sandbox to make it more skillfull? No, that can't be as they are geared toward the casuals. If you analyze the function of the bloom, we immediately tell that the gun decreases in effectiveness as distance increases. Killtimes in fact increase in linear fashion as distance increases. Can you see a parallel between this and the H3 BR bullet spread? You probably, do and that's because there is. The DMR addresses the limitations of the spread, but completes the same function. It is restrained to its mid-range niche and cannot kill at long-range (a full shielded opponent without help - of course it can kill a one-shot but that's besides the point and was also possible in H3). We, therefore, due to the kill times and the inherent design of the primary weapon, end up with a game with the exact same style of play as its predecessor. Lunchbox in a recent interview summe dit up well, "We just wait for us to have more numbers (as in more players alive) and then we push." Not very bright gameplay and this is coming from the top team. Then later on from Ryanoob "We don't have strategies we just push forward". It's once again down to teamshooting while pushing aggressively. This is not a type of gameplay that MLG should be encouraging. If you need more proof that this is the case, look at the top players. The grand majority of them are the same ones that were excelling in Halo 3. There was no change in gameplay as the H2-H3 jump. MLG should have been taking steps to counter this type of mindless gameplay in my opinion. Instead, the official gametype settings include sprint which only aggravates the problem. Now players are further encouraged to push forward like never before and this dilemma is accentuated when opponents sprint to safety since the other team now has to sprint further to finish the one-shots. Ridiculous.


That's why Halo 3 was bad, it infected the Halo series with a plague called the mindless aggressive push.


[Edited on 11.27.2011 6:19 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 6:15 AM PDT


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Dwavenhobble

nope just you and the others who seem to proudly consider themselves "pros" and as most pros these days seem to be alot of hot air it makes it all the more fun to not give a crap what I get labelled by them. I think I'm in fact proud to have annoyed so many pros that I'm getting enough of a rep to have people throwing insults in match making as well, its great fun.


So you're a troll. Cool.
Doesn't make you any less retarded.

No if I were here to troll I'd be using an unlinked account......
Though I must question the judgement of someone calling me retarded for finding the pro community a joke and a pretty poor one at that, while playing a game he admits t hating and constantly posting on the forums for said game as though he doesn't have the mental capacity to realise if you don't like something you don't have to play it.


Posted by: Iron Div is Pro



Dear god people are so stupid.

Hardly anyone who plays in the MLG playlist considers themselves pro's. Did your mother spoon feed paint thinner to you as a child?

The single most Ironic post ever made there, well done as it will no doubt go over most peoples heads

Posted by: Myth iZ
I've been saying this ... competitive players in Reach make up a really small percentage of the population .. this game's multiplayer started out with groups of people getting together to BS through drunken nights, lan parties, etc. Very little has changed over the years.

Bungie has always guided this game toward casuals, and 343 will do the same.

Exactly its just the "pro" community are so vocal here it makes it look like there's a lot more of them.

  • 11.27.2011 6:24 AM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

We know lolreach was built for casuals, we've been trying to tell you that since before it's release. Damn, you people are slow. The problem arises when you make the competitive playlists, like Arena, to be geared towards casuals as well. And when you go to make a classic playlist that is still very similar to the rest of lolreach.

  • 11.27.2011 6:31 AM PDT


Posted by: Apocalypse

Posted by: S0ULJA PHARAOH
Why H2? They need to go back to H3 elements if anything.


Lol.....


-lotsoftext-

That's why Halo 3 was bad, it infected the Halo series with a plague called the mindless aggressive push.


This is a really good read and is entirely accurate.

  • 11.27.2011 6:43 AM PDT

Halo 3: ReV Eskimo

eventually ill be back on Reach and CEA. i enjoy gaming for fun, im a great player and i enjoy smoking while i play. so any chill players feel free to add me. I in NO way support halocharts; old username.

i agree with you man. it was def. meant to be a more lax game but some people want to take every game to a competitive level, i dont care for it cause its jsut a video game.

  • 11.27.2011 6:57 AM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra


Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: Covenant Crates

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Covenant Crates
Reach is not a competitive game


But Halo is.


Halo was a competitive game. And then came along Reach.

Unless H4 somehow plays like H2, Halo has pretty much condemned itself.


Considering 343i claiming to "go back to Halo roots", chances are it will play like H2 and less like Reach.

343 claiming Halo "going back to its roots" is a downright lie. They can't even get this TU right. ZB with no adjustment to player speed and jump height? Nothing changes with nades? Which "roots" are they talking about? They seem clueless so far...

  • 11.27.2011 6:57 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Right because the quit ban is a casual thing?
The whole idea of being locked in a lobby before you even see who or what your playing against is a casual thing?
Having most games devolve into a stacked team of 8 spawn raping a bunch of random noobs is a casual thing?

Get a Clue! Reach was catered to tryhards, not casuals. But now that Reach turned into a pile of -blam!-, you want to blame it on casuals. SORRY NO! It's your fault that reach is a pile of -blam!-. This is what happens when you cater a game to try-hard idiots who think that having quit bans is a superior method to deal with quitters than a join in progress feature.

Ask any "Competitive" Player what they think about join-in-progress. Then go look at real competitive sports.
REAL Competitive sports.. ALL HAVE JOIN-IN-PROGRESS FEATURES!

Casuals, Would have LOVED to have this feature.
Try-Hards like yourself, are too stupid to realize that it does indeed fit into a competitive environment.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:01 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 6:58 AM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra


Posted by: MR E0S
Right because the quit ban is a casual thing?
The whole idea of being locked in a lobby before you even see who or what your playing agaisnt is a casual thing?
Having most games devolve into a stacked team of 8 spawn raping a bunch of random noobs is a casual thing?

Get a Clue! Reach was catered to tryhards, not casuals. But now that Reach turned into a pile of -blam!-, you want to blame it on casuals. SORRY NO! It's your fault that reach is a pile of -blam!-. This is what happens when you cater a game to try-hard idiots who think that having quit bans is a superior method to deal with quitters than a join in progress feature.

Ask any "Competitive" Player what they think about join-in-progress. Then go look at real competitive sports.
REAL Competitive sports.. ALL HAVE JOIN-IN-PROGRESS FEATURES!

I take it you never played Halo: CE or Halo 2 online.

Funny, I never heard any "tryhard" asking for a quit ban. I've never heard of a "tryhard" asking for a "locked in lobby" where you "don't see who you're playing against."

Also, we're talking about a video game, not sports. Stop with the crappy straw-man arguments.

  • 11.27.2011 7:00 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

How is that a straw man argument?

I never heard of a casual ask for the quit ban.

So who the -blam!- asked for it?

I'm going with the tryhards who get pissed about people not wanting to pad their stats for them when they hold the objective.


Point is, The randomness of Matchmaking...is supposed to be catering to the Competitive half of this community.

The new Voting system, caters directly to the competitive half of this community. Random noobs will lose the vote against a stacked team of 8.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:05 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:02 AM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra


Posted by: MR E0S
How is that a straw man argument?

I never heard of a casual ask for the quit ban.

So who the -blam!- asked for it?

I'm going with the tryhards who get pissed about people not wanting to pad their stats for them when they hold the objective.

Straw-man = nothing you brought up is even relevant, or even "helpful", to your cause and the main argument.

You're assuming a lot. In fact, your assumptions are another giant logical fallacy. Just because you never heard a casual not ask for the "mean rules" doesn't mean a "tryhard" did.

Bungie has implemented many of these features purely on their own accord, and rightly so. I think it's obvious, seeing as how Reach plays and the type of player it attracts, Bungie isn't a big fan of the competitive side of Halo.

  • 11.27.2011 7:05 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Look at matchmaking, the voting system, the gametypes and the quit ban.


And tell me again that a casual would ask for those things.

And I'll tell you your a -blam!- idiot.

EVERY bit of what matchmaking has turned into, is to cater the game to the try-hards.

You're only argument against it, is that there is no...1-50 system. Tell me I'm wrong.

Even the lack of the 1-50 system is to cater the game to the try-hards of the group. Because we all know how much you try-hards love to stack the odds in your favor. And the lack of 1-50 system just makes it that much easier for you to get into games agaisnt people who you have no business matching against in the first place. Same reason alot of you people turned into derankers just so you could go back and play against noobs.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:10 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:06 AM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra


Posted by: MR E0S
Look at matchmaking, the voting system, the gametypes and the quit ban.


And tell me again that a casual would ask for those things.

And I'll tell you your a -blam!- idiot.

EVERY bit of what matchmaking has turned into, is to cater the game to the try-hards.

Now you're just being a dolt. Nothing you're saying is even remotely relevant to the conversation.

Look at the playlists on Reach. Now, look at each population for those playlists. What do you see? Well, Living Dead has the highest population, Arena/MLG has the lowest. Again, what does that tell you?

If Bungie catered to the casuals there wouldn't be a 10 to 1 ratio for competitive playlists and the current "competitive" playlists wouldn't have such low populations.

  • 11.27.2011 7:09 AM PDT

The Song Of Nephilim

Xenoblade <3

I really do not care what people play.

  • 11.27.2011 7:09 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

That is only because you're pointing out that the casuals DO IN FACT out-number you.

Still doesn't mean that this game was catered to casuals.

OMG they have a casual playlist available and there are more people playing it than arena.... THIS GAME WAS MADE FOR CASUALS.

Really?

Or is it, most casuals stay away from Arena, because they don't feel like playing against the Try-Hards....and so all the try-hards follow the casuals into their playlist instead.

Face it, most of you would rather play against a person you can spawn -blam!-, than someone who will spawn -blam!- you.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:16 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:11 AM PDT


Posted by: Cowleyad

Posted by: MR E0S
Look at matchmaking, the voting system, the gametypes and the quit ban.


And tell me again that a casual would ask for those things.

And I'll tell you your a -blam!- idiot.

EVERY bit of what matchmaking has turned into, is to cater the game to the try-hards.

Now you're just being a dolt. Nothing you're saying is even remotely relevant to the conversation.

Look at the playlists on Reach. Now, look at each population for those playlists. What do you see? Well, Living Dead has the highest population, Arena/MLG has the lowest. Again, what does that tell you?

If Bungie catered to the casuals there wouldn't be a 10 to 1 ratio for competitive playlists and the current "competitive" playlists wouldn't have such low populations.
Give up.

You're talking to moron who can't change his mind because he's so intently focused on hating 'tryhards' because they're better than him.

  • 11.27.2011 7:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

You're not better than me.

and I only hate the try-hards because you people so adamantly fight agaisnt updating Halo's matchmaking service into the god damn 21st century.

A game played over the internet with random people. NEEDS A JOIN IN PROGRESS FEATURE!

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:17 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:16 AM PDT


Posted by: MR E0S
You're just retarded.

Reach has slower movement speeds, maps with more and more random CQC elements, much greater aim-assist, precision weapon randomness, more grenade spam and you're saying the game wasn't built for casuals?

You're having a laugh. Stop being such an imbecile.

  • 11.27.2011 7:16 AM PDT


Posted by: MR E0S
That is only because you're pointing out that the casuals DO IN FACT out-number you.

Still doesn't mean that this game was catered to casuals.

OMG they have a casual playlist available and there are more people playing it than arena.... THIS GAME WAS MADE FOR CASUALS.

Really?

Or is it, most casuals stay away from Arena, because they don't feel like playing against the Try-Hards....and so all the try-hards follow the casuals into their playlist instead?


Are you completely retarded? The population is so low on this game because there is no competetion. Arena is a joke for competetive players. What about the swat 50's snipe 50's or mlg 50's. You know what they get social playlists. Please leave this thread the low amount of intelligence coming from you is giving me a migrane.

  • 11.27.2011 7:17 AM PDT


Posted by: MR E0S
You're not better than me.
...Yes, I am. Most people in this thread who have responded to you are.

  • 11.27.2011 7:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
  • user homepage:

Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

See you just proved it. Your whole argument is the lack of the 1-50 system. Sorry just because Halo ditched 1-50 doesn't mean it's catered to casuals.

Get more solid support for you cause.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:18 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:18 AM PDT


Posted by: MR E0S
See you just proved it. Your whole argument is the lack of the 1-50 system.
Yep, you are completely retarded. Confirmed. As if we needed it.

  • 11.27.2011 7:19 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Cowleyad
343 claiming Halo "going back to its roots" is a downright lie. They can't even get this TU right. ZB with no adjustment to player speed and jump height? Nothing changes with nades? Which "roots" are they talking about? They seem clueless so far...


I'd consider bashing 343i after they release a product they made themselves.

Sure the TU might not be perfect but quite frankly, it's a long road, but it's a step in the right direction.

  • 11.27.2011 7:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
  • user homepage:

Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Let me ask you a ?

Have you ever played Shadowrun?
What kind of game would you consider that?

Competitive or Casual?


Shadowrun happens to be one of the most competitive games I've ever played. Which is funny, because there is absolutely NO STAT TRACKING anywhere to be found in that game. It's all about proving yourself in the moment.

You -blam!-es turned Halo into a game where it's all about boosting your stats so you can come onto the forum and -blam!- talk people with a lower recorded K/D than you.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 7:22 AM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 7:20 AM PDT

Join Halo Haven for all things related to Halo 4


Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
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If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers

Posted by: MR E0S
You're not better than me.


...wat

  • 11.27.2011 7:20 AM PDT