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  • Subject: Halo vs. Warhammer 40,000
Subject: Halo vs. Warhammer 40,000

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
I love how people underestimate the Flood. If there is even a single spore on a planet, no matter what 40k does, that world is doomed.

Halo 3. Floodgate. It begs to differ.

  • 11.29.2011 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
I love how people underestimate the Flood. If there is even a single spore on a planet, no matter what 40k does, that world is doomed.

Halo 3. Floodgate. It begs to differ.

They were ready for it.
And they glassed the whole city almost instantly.

  • 11.29.2011 8:24 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: FTW 1997
Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
I love how people underestimate the Flood. If there is even a single spore on a planet, no matter what 40k does, that world is doomed.

Halo 3. Floodgate. It begs to differ.

They were ready for it.
And they glassed the whole city almost instantly.

Excuses. It falsifies your claim. Even a significant Flood infection like what impacted Earth was contained by powers much weaker than those at the disposal of the 40k universe.

  • 11.29.2011 8:28 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
I love how people underestimate the Flood. If there is even a single spore on a planet, no matter what 40k does, that world is doomed.

Halo 3. Floodgate. It begs to differ.

They were ready for it.
And they glassed the whole city almost instantly.



How the hell were they ready for the random ship that left slipspace and crashed in the city? And do you understand what the word instantly means?


I am aware of the "almost" but since they glassed it after a firefight to the ship it was anything but "instant".
Warhammer has viruses that can infect planets in minutes not to mention i believe the Nids can infect an entire planet in days. It took about a month for HC to be fully infected.

  • 11.29.2011 8:28 AM PDT
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Grey...please dont start that flood vs nids thing again...
We had that thread before(you might remember)and it was proven that the flood infects faster than nids and nids have bigger amounts.
And yes i said instantly because for a combat with flood that was fast....As in it didn't take 1 whole day didn't it ?
And yes they where prepared for combat since the prophets fleet left...

And no its not an excuse...
Ofcourse if the the warhammer universe is ready for flood then flood would lose (only if its the only sample).

  • 11.29.2011 8:34 AM PDT

Simply to endure is to triumph!

I like Warhammer 40K but I LOVE Halo. Nevertheless, I have to say that Warhammer 40K would win in the blink of an eye.

  • 11.29.2011 8:37 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: FTW 1997
And no its not an excuse...
Ofcourse if the the warhammer universe is ready for flood then flood would lose (only if its the only sample).

Well then you've just stated that the Flood would lose. Why are you evening arguing it anymore then?

  • 11.29.2011 8:37 AM PDT
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Im clearing it out.
What would be the results of different battles.

  • 11.29.2011 8:40 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: FTW 1997
Grey...please dont start that flood vs nids thing again...
We had that thread before(you might remember)and it was proven that the flood infects faster than nids and nids have bigger amounts.
And yes i said instantly because for a combat with flood that was fast....As in it didn't take 1 whole day didn't it ?
And yes they where prepared for combat since the prophets fleet left...

And no its not an excuse...
Ofcourse if the the warhammer universe is ready for flood then flood would lose (only if its the only sample).


Can i get a link to that thread? i don't remember anything like that.


The Gap between Halo 2 and 3 is about a month right? It took the flood roughly 28-31 days to infect HC which is about 200 miles while the moon is about 2,000 miles in size.
So if you know how to do some math you could figure out how long it would take them to infect the moon.
The Earth is about 24,000 miles so you could do some more math to find out how long it would take them to infect earth.


Even then you would have to add time since the UNSC wouldn't let the moon and earth be infected. now look at this

"Subject:
Tyranid Planetary Assimilation Analysis

Lord Commanders,

I bring you grave news. The threat we face may be far more vast than we ever dreamed. Technical analysis of Dalki-Prime pre Tyranid consumption survey information when cross-referenced with the data from Dalki-Mons post Tyranid consumption shows some startling information.

Dalki-Prime was an agricultural planet with a diameter of 12,500 km, slightly smaller than Terra. The Tyranid fleet was able to remove the following quantities of material from the planet within 100 days [Terran Standard].

1.55 billion cubic km water, one cubic km of sea water weighs over 1 trillion kg.
8.67 billion cubic km gases, at STP theoretically they could reduce this to 1 tenth its volume by super cooling and pressure (3 atm, and 0ºC).
72 million cubic km soil and minerals, weighing 1.4 trillion kg per cubic km.

Over 10 billion cubic kilometres of material was removed from the planet."


I rest my case

  • 11.29.2011 8:46 AM PDT

Yep, it takes Tyranids, normally, 100 days to strip a planet of ALL organic/biological life. Then they move on.

That's from what I know.

  • 11.29.2011 9:07 AM PDT

abandon all hope dark times are coming

War hammer 40k vs halo? umm hello virus bombs win! hail the emperor!

  • 11.29.2011 9:48 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

Ok, this may be a long post:

Posted by: Xd00999
I will focus on the Necron Empire.
At their height ( and the OP specifically stated everyone is at their height) they ruled the Galaxy just like the Forerunners. They have millions of Tomb Worlds which puts their size at roughly the same as the Forerunners.


Agreed, both have similarly crazy industrial capabilities as well, the Necrons can build dyson spheres as well IIRC.

Every weapon rips targets apart molecule by molecule, therefore the best defense is thicker armor. From what we have seen, Forerunner Combat skins are not that bulky but rather like regular clothes. This means Gauss weapons would rip through them easily.

The primary defence of Forerunner armour is it's energy shields, (and possibly hard-light related systems,) it doesn't just rely on physical armour.

Secondly their armed force. The Necron navy is the best in the galaxy. 4 light Necron ships breezed past all the defenses and landed on Mars. The Necrons are the only non-human force to land on Mars. Even the lightest ships could breeze past the Imperium's greatest defenses.

That was one bit of the 5E codex I was dissapointed with, the Necrons seem to have had their FTL retconned to the webway, with only very few ships capable of the old reactionless FTL system.

Anyway, that aside, I'm confident a Forerunner ship could accomplish the same mission: Slipspace in close to the planet, use it's suppressors to disable all the 'machine spirits' (basicly AI/VI systems) of the defence installations, and then swarm them with sentinels and remote weapons platforms.

The Diviner. The Diviner is a Nexron Cryptek who can predict the future. He predicted the Fall of the Eldar, the Horus Heresy, the Tyranids' arrival, and several other major events 65 million years in advance. If an event does not go according to plan, he can always go back in time and rewrite history.

Orikan? Just because he can predict the future does not necissarily imply he can do anything about it, and his predictions are not foolproof.

Posted by: Xd00999
Another thing to say: several of you suggest that the Forerunners just go and nova Sol. That is assuming the know where Sol is and are able to get past it's defenses.


I feel it is a reasonable assumption; the vast majority of IOM starships (including civilian ones) will have starcharts with Sol and "Holy Terra" marked on them, these records will be easily obtained by the Forerunner, we see how easily a Forerunner AI gets hold of human data when 343 GS takes all of the Autumn's databanks, I doubt IOM civilian computers will be much harder to get information from.

They can simply avoid all the defences by the use of slipspace travel, in this the Forerunner have a massive tactical advantage. Forerunner slipspace travel is faster (a lot faster) and more precise than 40k warp travel.

Once in-system the Forerunner fleet can use it's Suppressors to cripple the enemy defence, while it is possible to manually target and fire 40k weapons at the ranges we are dealing with the chances of hitting your target without computer/machine spirit aid is pretty low.

The Suppressor systems should be a potent force-multiplier for the Forerunner.

It should be possible to bypass much of the orbital defences as they are primarily concentrated around Earth, not Sol. Sol is not usually at risk in 40k.


If we assume the Forerunners know the location of the most important planet in the galaxy even though the two universes are completely separate and they should have no knowledge of it's location, we should assume the Warhammer forces likewise know where some key planets are.

It's going to be much harder for a 40K faction to get hold of a Forerunner starmap than vice-versa, the Forerunner make ubiquitous use of high-level AI-counterintrusion by 40k AIs is not likely to be very effective. And capturing a Forerunner vessel could be difficult when it can flee to slipspace at any time, as slipspace does not have some of the limitations that warp travel does.


If not, the Necrons can always use the Celestial Orrey and destroy half the Milky Way. The Celestial Orrey is a hollow Tomb World that contains a map of the entire galaxy. Destroy a star(s) on the map and the corresponding star(s) in realspace will go supernova. The Necrons don't even have to be there to destroy Forerunner worlds.

But that map is only of the 40k milky way, (I am assuming the two galaxies are being held seperate) If the Forerunner are invading 40k it may be of use, but not before.


About Imperium tech, Elder Bias did me a favor at one time and calculated that Imperial Lance Batteries (standard ship board weapon, weaker than a Nova Cannon) fire power was in the range of high terratonnes / low petatonnes. A mid-sized Imperial warship is said to be capable of stripping an area "down to it's mantle" and there are many references to Imperial broadsides being "continent cracking".

I'm not familiar with that calculation, however I do know that a stated number for IOM firepower is ~ 600 Gigatons for an anti-shipping torpedo, so teratons per broadside seems plausible, especially for the larger vessels.


And the Tyranids would win through sheer numbers alone. A White Dwarf article states that the Tyranids are responsible for the destruction of thousands of galaxies and are responsible for the extinction of millions of species. This is much more than the single galaxy the Flood were able to consume.

Please can you link a source for the thousands of galaxies bit? The highest I've seen was for 13 galaxies, and that was speculation.



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Posted by: rst7503
The Necrons had the Aeonic Orb, as well as the C'tan who are depicted as more or less the gods the material universe who could only be countered by warp powers.


Not strictly correct, the Necrons themselves shattered and captured the C'tan at the close of the War In Heaven, and they did so by technological means-the Necrons don't use the warp.

But what I mean to say is that most races can, as a pool of their collective subconsciousnesses, create major warp entities, not just Chaos Gods.

Of the big five, three do. I guess this is a majority, but with the sample size being so small it's a little iffy to claim it's the rule rather than the exception. If we include the Tau then it's 3vs3 for Warp Critter creation.


I mean, I suppose it is possible that the Forerunners are purely entities of the Material Realm, like the C'tan, but this makes them especially vulnerable to warp powers, much as how the C'tan were especially vulnerable because of their status of being purely of the Material Realm

The Forerunner are not creatures like the C'tan, why should they be especially vulnerable to the warp? the Tau aren't, the Tyranids aren't.


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Posted by: grey101
Other than the fact in warhammer's overpowered universe the flood are nothing. Bring the flood into warhammer and they won't even waste time laughing. Bring the Nids into halo and everything is done for.


I disagree, the Flood would be a massive threat in 40K, spacecraft are ubiquitous and easily obtainable, populations are high, and the governments are not quick to respond on a strategic scale.

The Flood need only get hold of a few ships from any one of the millions of inhabited worlds in the galaxy and you are going to see them spread widely and wildly as they did in the war against the Forerunner. And they will be using IOM tech, or Eldar tech, etc.

In contrast the Tyranids are slower than the IOM in FTL, and follow predictable courses, predictable enough that worlds can be fortified as "choke points" to stop their advance.

This is not the same pattern of spread as the Flood employ, and the IOM's slow FTL and slow beuraucracy will cripple their ability to contain the outbreak.



If you read all that, have ten points. :)

  • 11.29.2011 2:11 PM PDT

Ahum, as far as I know, if the flood infected a ship(everybody on board, including the navigator), it'd lose the guidance/protection from the emperor. Thus as soon as it attempts to jump, wouldn't the warp/chaos just trash it?

Of course, there is saying they'd even be able to get out of the warp when or where they would want to.

  • 11.29.2011 2:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
I love how people underestimate the Flood. If there is even a single spore on a planet, no matter what 40k does, that world is doomed.

Halo 3. Floodgate. It begs to differ.

They were ready for it.
And they glassed the whole city almost instantly.



How the hell were they ready for the random ship that left slipspace and crashed in the city? And do you understand what the word instantly means?


I am aware of the "almost" but since they glassed it after a firefight to the ship it was anything but "instant".
Warhammer has viruses that can infect planets in minutes not to mention i believe the Nids can infect an entire planet in days. It took about a month for HC to be fully infected.



First of all, that ship crashing was a desperate attempt, had the Gravemind gotten enough time to come up with a strategy and use his more powerful Flood forms, Earth would be completely under Flood control. He didn't anticipate that 2/3 of Earth's army would be in that exact area, he didn't expect for the Sangheili to show up, and he didn't have powerful enough Combat Forms to take Voi. I'm talking about the Flood that fought the Forerunners and nearly won, the Flood that could rip tanks apart, the Flood that could bring battleships out of the sky.


Secondly, still talking about full-power Flood. Full power Flood would have taken High Charity in about 1-2 days.

  • 11.29.2011 2:35 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Ahum, as far as I know, if the flood infected a ship(everybody on board, including the navigator), it'd lose the guidance/protection from the emperor. Thus as soon as it attempts to jump, wouldn't the warp/chaos just trash it?


As long as it's gellar fields are still running I'd assume it wouldn't get instantly gobbled, it *may* get lost without the astronomicon's beacon, alternatively the floodified navigator may be able to see it, they get the skills of the host after all.

Of course, there is saying they'd even be able to get out of the warp when or where they would want to.

That's an issue with all warp travel in general, usually it works though.

  • 11.29.2011 2:54 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Quote removed for convenience.
Yet in Origins we see the Forerunners getting physically assaulted by the flood; no energy shields are seen. Even so, Necron weapons have been shown to blast through void shields to I suppose they would work on Halo Shields as well.

They still have non-warp FTL, it is just slower (plus they only really needed the Dolmen gates initially because the Old Ones were hiding in the webway. , and we can assume that this location will be accessible to both parties (or else it won't be much of a fight!). The Necrons can still use the webway then.

What are those suppressors you are talking about? I have never heard of them before now. Anyway, it is a good thing that Machine Spirits don't control many of the defenses.

Yet Orikan can time travel and make sure his predictions come about. Both the Eldar and Necrons can time travel which is a big advantage over the Forerunners.

Again, what are these Suppressors you speak of? I have no knowledge of them outside your posts. Another thing to consider is the idea that because no Warhammer force, except the Tau, uses AI it is unlikely that they would need to link all those databases together in a method that could be accessed externally. If they were all linked together, why do they need all those servitors and deck hands on the bridge? Why not just have a few consoles controlled by a few crewmen.
In Atlas Infernal the characters were forced to physically remove the enemy ships databanks to acquire knowledge of their past areas.

What is stopping the Warhammer forces from launching a boarding attack and infiltrating the vessel during the carnage? Mindshackle Scarabs, posing as a crew member killed during the attack (a la Xenology), or even teleporting over some squads of Canoptek Wraiths/Terminators? Canoptek wraiths in particular who be extremely hard to defeat.

The Orrey is a map of the Milky Way galaxy. Both Halo and 40k take place in the same galaxy so the Orrey should work.

The calculations in question were concerning a crater 12 km wide and 18 km deep caused by a lance battery array. The Autumn's explosion left a crater barely half that size and it was several hundred teratons.

White Dwarf 145 states that fact. I have yet to see anything to contradict it.

The C'Tan were crucial to the fundamental fabric of actuality and the only way the only way they were able to be defeated (defeated, not destroyed) was to harness the energies of the living universe.

Even though the Tau and Tyranids are not particularly vulnerable to the warp they can still be affected by things like warp storms. How would the Forerunners fair in a warp storm?

How are the Flood going to get on the worlds again? Last time I checked security is high and the Navy is strong. Even if they managed to get on a ship they could not control it because they have no Navigator and the Chaos Gods could always just obliterate them (I mean the ship they hijacked) with barely any effort.

I use my ten points to give my Necron a Resurrection orb.

Edit: Concerning the suppressors, are you referring to the argon Cryptum where Faber's AI shuts Didact's AI down? If so, why didn't 343 GS use the suppressors and shut down the Covenant Fleet's weapons when they were attacking the Autumn? What if the suppressors were only an "As Faber's AI I outrank you, shut down." thing? Could they even work on Machine Spirits? An important part of the Mechanicum is the fact that they are being heavily influenced by the Dragon trapped beneath the Noctis Labyrinth. The Dragon (put there by St.George aka the Emperor) is heavily implied to be the Necron Void Dragon C'Tan so who knows what is going on with the Machine Spirits or other tech?

[Edited on 11.29.2011 4:59 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 3:15 PM PDT
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Sometimes I wonder why this is a Bungie forum. Expect fanboy comments like my one... Halo FTW!!!

  • 11.29.2011 3:28 PM PDT

Hello.

First off, I totally understand your standpoint on this. Secondly, I would like to point out that you accidentally sparked the "Covenant trump all" argument. Thirdly, I would like to state I have been playing Halo since CE, and have played/read mega tons of background of 40k/Fantasy for 7 years,(which has been around for 25+ years). What I gather from all this is the following.

The Chaos Gods have caused terrible devastation before, but also live in the Warp. This pocket dimension is what ships pass through when making jumps between systems, and houses every single daemon in the universe. Now, the Halo, being a tool used to cleanse the universe, could not possibly kill off A: Anything in the Warp B: Anything in the Webway C: Anything in a different poxket dimension (like Necrons) D: Kill off the Tyranid threat, as though they cant do their usual hide in the bottom of a planet magic trick, they come from way way way beyond known space, so the Halos wouldn' reach them. Forgive my awful grammar, but, as much as I love Halo, Warhammer 40k would eat the Halo universe for breakfast.

  • 11.29.2011 7:10 PM PDT

Deal with it.

Halo would win hands down, "why?" you may ask. I will tell you why.


Master Chief's luck.

  • 11.29.2011 7:45 PM PDT
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Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.

  • 11.29.2011 8:06 PM PDT

I rule the midnight air, the destroyer, die by my hand, I am Creeping Death.


Posted by: Poy Poy
Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.


I am not entirely on 40k's side, however I will point this out before someone else does. The halo array needs a sample of the nueron or whatever in its database for it to be able to target it. 40k is new therefore won't be in the database and won't be able to be targeted.

Also if they resorted to that then they could always go on shield worlds or out of the galaxy etc. and repopulate their universe, so if that was the case it wouldn't be a tie, we would win, sadly the whole halo array thing would fail though...

  • 11.29.2011 8:09 PM PDT
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Five exclamations marks are a good signifier of an insane mind. As is trying to hide from Death in an airtight room. Silly wizard.


Posted by: Poy Poy
Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.
i said halos were only allowed to be used on a single solar system scale, no bigger. plus it won't kill necrons because ther robots.

  • 11.29.2011 8:33 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

Dunno what Warhammer is anyway

[Edited on 11.29.2011 8:35 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 8:35 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: Poy Poy
Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.
i said halos were only allowed to be used on a single solar system scale, no bigger. plus it won't kill necrons because ther robots.


Halo rings have a far greater rang than that.

Seven wipes out the entire galaxy of life, think about that.

  • 11.29.2011 8:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Death7452

Posted by: Poy Poy
Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.


I am not entirely on 40k's side, however I will point this out before someone else does. The halo array needs a sample of the nueron or whatever in its database for it to be able to target it. 40k is new therefore won't be in the database and won't be able to be targeted.

Also if they resorted to that then they could always go on shield worlds or out of the galaxy etc. and repopulate their universe, so if that was the case it wouldn't be a tie, we would win, sadly the whole halo array thing would fail though...


Can you please point out on where it is sayed that it needs the sample ?
Seriously people start think things out...


Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: Poy Poy
Halo ring fire = no more life.

It's a tie.
i said halos were only allowed to be used on a single solar system scale, no bigger. plus it won't kill necrons because ther robots.


Are you kidden me ?
There would no need to fight the halo universe in this case....it will self destruct.

  • 11.30.2011 3:53 AM PDT