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This topic has moved here: Poll [159 votes]: What ruined BTB in Reach?
  • Poll [159 votes]: What ruined BTB in Reach?
Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?

RIP Logan ~B.B.

Poll: What ruined BTB in Reach?  [closed]
Banshees and Scorpions:  11%
(18 Votes)
Lack of decent maps:  21%
(33 Votes)
Warthogs no longer fun:  3%
(4 Votes)
Quitters:  18%
(28 Votes)
Camo Campers:  3%
(5 Votes)
All of the above:  35%
(55 Votes)
None of the above, BTB Rulz!:  10%
(16 Votes)
Total Votes: 159

I used to love BTB in Previous Halo games. The tug of war games of 8v8 we could have were amazing. In Reach, I don't think that magic was ever recaptured. I know it wasn't for me and many of my friends who could usually be found playing BTB in Halo 3. I've always loved the dynamic of having full map battles with the full range of the Halo arsenal available to you.

I gave BTB in Reach a healthy try, and still play it every so often if I end up with more than 6 people in a party, but I just don't enjoy it. I know maps were my first problem with it. From the start, all the maps were far too easy controlled with scorpions and Banshees. If you weren't in either, there was really no point in playing, because you were a non-factor in games. You might get lucky enough to score some assists shooting people off spawn before the tank or banshees got them.

Over time, Scorpions were replaced with Wraiths, A very solid map, Tempest, was added, and Banshees were largely replaced with Falcons. Plus, community maps were added that didn't feature the game-breaking vehicles, diluting out the the bad maps that remained. I do think that was a vast improvement, but I still got thoroughly sick of the list, and I just can't put my finger on it.

Going in with a party of 8, it is extremely hard to get a game that lasts 5 minutes before you win or everyone on the other team quits out. I even think I'd be hard pressed to find a game where at least one person on the other team didn't quit in the pre-game, leaving them short-handed and the game a foregone conclusion. Then, of course are the 20 minute long games of 8v1 where one player on the other team doesn't quit out and tries to HLG his way through the game with minimal deaths.

For me, I think it's all of the above, but mostly banshees and scorpions that killed BTB for me. They ruined the maps, and really took the strategy out of controlling games because they had no suitable counter once one side lost theirs. So, it started extremely unbalanced with no suitable maps. It got better maps and dropped some of the game-breaking vehicles, but by then, players have gotten so used to camping or quitting to avoid power weapons and vehicles, that games just weren't fun anymore.

What do you think, where exactly did BTB go wrong?

  • 11.29.2011 6:49 AM PDT
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The maps are pretty bad if you don't have the DLC. I can only play variants of Hemorrhage so many times (yeah I know, get a job). There are some decent DLC ones, though. Most games seem to be a race to the Banshee, at least for me.

Posted by: Kira Onime
Reach.

Also this.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 6:57 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 6:53 AM PDT

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Reach.

  • 11.29.2011 6:56 AM PDT

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The maps killed it for me. I could see snipers being really annoying on some maps (namely Hemmorhage and Highlands), and Banshees. All of those can be extremely annoying if you are in a game with a bunch of randoms and could really turn someone "off" of BTB.

  • 11.29.2011 6:57 AM PDT

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Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.

  • 11.29.2011 6:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.

How people play BTB solo is beyond me.

  • 11.29.2011 7:01 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: o DeathCubeK o
The maps killed it for me. I could see snipers being really annoying on some maps (namely Hemmorhage and Highlands), and Banshees. All of those can be extremely annoying if you are in a game with a bunch of randoms and could really turn someone "off" of BTB.

Yeah, I think that is part of all the quitting. Seems like players will rush for sniper and banshee, and if the don't get it, start betraying and get booted, or quit. I don't do that because I usually play with friends, but during games where you don't get one of those weapons, I don't really feel like playing much, because there isn't much point.

  • 11.29.2011 7:01 AM PDT

We Surround Them!

What ruined BTB for me is not only the very one-dimensional maps, but the fact that there are so many now that are objective-based and no one plays for the win - just the kills. I still loved the days in Halo 3 where it was just Slayer games on fairly wide open maps with only a select few vehicles. Now, there are so many vehicles and so many points where you can camp/snipe it's become ridiculous. Add to that the lousy maps provided by Bungie that came with the game itself (not part of any DLC) and it grows tiresome. But the worst is the fact it's become a kill-for-all with the overwhelming number of objective-based matches ending as 0-0 ties with few if any players actually trying to capture a flag, arm a bomb or grab a territory.

There is no "team" concept any longer really - just a bunch of FFAs thrown into a team-based game and all focused on one thing ... multikills and being top on the leader board.

  • 11.29.2011 7:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.

  • 11.29.2011 7:05 AM PDT

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Think it was the maps for me. I really enjoy Highlands and Tempest, because you can get away with vehicle use there if you can control certain power weapons (which don't individually dominate the game). Eager to try out the new HCEA BTB maps.

  • 11.29.2011 7:05 AM PDT
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Op banshee. Why did they buff it from Halo 3?

Weaker anti vehicular weapons. Again why did they need to be changed?

And this new vehicle health system that screws over smaller vehicles in order to make the OP ones easier to kill with the weak anti vehicular weapons we were given.

The problem with the maps is avoided with forge and DLC, but that doesn't fix the core gameplay issues.

  • 11.29.2011 7:08 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.


I will say that the most fun I had in Reach BTB is playing and sc-blam!- other teams for the HC tourney, at least the American ones. We actually had some really good games where map control would swing back and forth. It was quit a hassle to successfully arrange 16 man games, though.

  • 11.29.2011 7:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: RC Clone
Op banshee. Why did they buff it from Halo 3?

Weaker anti vehicular weapons. Again why did they need to be changed?


It takes 4 people 1 clip each to DMR a banshee.

You spawn with a ridiculously overpowered anti-vehicle weapon.

  • 11.29.2011 7:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: Pity

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.

How people play BTB solo is beyond me.
It's fun that way. I normaly don't like playing BTB with more than 2 friends but go it solo for most of my games.

  • 11.29.2011 7:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.


I will say that the most fun I had in Reach BTB is playing and sc-blam!- other teams for the HC tourney, at least the American ones. We actually had some really good games where map control would swing back and forth. It was quit a hassle to successfully arrange 16 man games, though.


I think the full parties actually enjoy the map control, the spawn killing, the KD padding, the credits, and the constant whining about quitters.



  • 11.29.2011 7:23 AM PDT

I played mostly BTB from when Reach came out until they updated it to add the community maps, and my biggest gripe with it during that time was parties of 8 vs 8 randoms. It's no fun to go up against a team that knows each other and works as a cohesive unit when you've just met your teammates and they think that they are better suited to wield your weapon then you are.

However the thing that ruined BTB for me was when objective got a huge increase in weighting; I personally can't stand objective so playing BTB at this point is like subjecting myself to torture. Now you can go through two rounds of voting and not see a slayer option, whereas before you had the option to play slayer in every voting round. If there is at least an option for slayer and objective wins then fine I'll play it, or at least try to play it(my quit threshold will be significantly lower than normal).

[Edited on 11.29.2011 7:30 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:24 AM PDT

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Terrible maps, camo sniping,AL camping in the bases, and unbalanced vehicles. Gauss is OP, Banshee is OP, Ghost is UP, and Tank always beats Wraith. And the Warthog is made of paper.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 7:28 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:27 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

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Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.

How do you challenge other full parties to a custom game?

Please tell me.

Because unless that other full party is in your friends list. It's an impossibility.

On the other hand. IF you could host a custom game and have it advertised on a list somewhere with a description saying "Full parties only"....

Having to use external means outside of the game to accomplish this. Is not acceptable.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 7:36 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:32 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: huskyguy
However the thing that ruined BTB for me was when objective got a huge increase in weighting; I personally can't stand objective so playing BTB at this point is like subjecting myself to torture. Now you can go through two rounds of voting and not see a slayer option, whereas before you had the option to play slayer in every voting round.


Interesting. I remember never-ending debates about how to 'fix' objective gametypes in Halo 3, because nearly every list that had them was failing. Squad Battle, Team Throwback, Ranked Objective. It seemed like double EXP on a weekend playlist is the only thing that every made CTF games popular, because no matter what settings they tried, they always failed to capture a following.

It seems a majority of Halo players just don't like playing games with objective involved. The heavier the objective weighting, the less people in the playlist.

  • 11.29.2011 7:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S

Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.

How do you challenge other full parties to a custom game?

Please tell me.

Because unless that other full party is in your friends list. It's an impossibility.


Well that's funny...

I see a few full BTB parties going on my friend's list at any given time...and I don't play it that much.

  • 11.29.2011 7:36 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Your friends list, is not my friends list, and it's not everyone elses friends list.

  • 11.29.2011 7:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: huskyguy
However the thing that ruined BTB for me was when objective got a huge increase in weighting; I personally can't stand objective so playing BTB at this point is like subjecting myself to torture. Now you can go through two rounds of voting and not see a slayer option, whereas before you had the option to play slayer in every voting round.


Interesting. I remember never-ending debates about how to 'fix' objective gametypes in Halo 3, because nearly every list that had them was failing. Squad Battle, Team Throwback, Ranked Objective. It seemed like double EXP on a weekend playlist is the only thing that every made CTF games popular, because no matter what settings they tried, they always failed to capture a following.

It seems a majority of Halo players just don't like playing games with objective involved. The heavier the objective weighting, the less people in the playlist.

That's how it is with any shooter. People just prefer slaying rather than actually going for an objective. Look at some other games (Gears, CoD, etc.) The most played playlist is always team deathmatch.

  • 11.29.2011 7:38 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!


Posted by: Pity
That's how it is with any shooter. People just prefer slaying rather than actually going for an objective. Look at some other games (Gears, CoD, etc.) The most played playlist is always team deathmatch.


Which is funny because when you mix objectives with team slayers into the same playlists.. you end up playing team slayer the majority of the time.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 7:40 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
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Posted by: SouthPoIe
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Posted by: ICanHasRofl

Posted by: RC Clone
Op banshee. Why did they buff it from Halo 3?

Weaker anti vehicular weapons. Again why did they need to be changed?


It takes 4 people 1 clip each to DMR a banshee.

You spawn with a ridiculously overpowered anti-vehicle weapon.

You cut out the part where I mentioned vehicle health, which is the only reason that strategy works. The underpowered anti vehicle weapons I'm talking about are rockets, plasma launcher, and Laser. A Banshee pilot that knows what they are doing will never get killed by these weapons that were designed to destroy it.

  • 11.29.2011 7:41 AM PDT