Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?
  • Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?
Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: ICanHasRofl
Quitters.

Go through my BTB game history and you'd struggle to find a game where less than half of the other team quit.


Try challenging other full parties in custom games.

Most of your problem will be solved.


I will say that the most fun I had in Reach BTB is playing and sc-blam!- other teams for the HC tourney, at least the American ones. We actually had some really good games where map control would swing back and forth. It was quit a hassle to successfully arrange 16 man games, though.


I think the full parties actually enjoy the map control, the spawn killing, the KD padding, the credits, and the constant whining about quitters.


Yeah, many of them play BTB just for the stats that they couldn't get without a banshee. I'll admit, I enjoy the easy wins and kills too, but don't take it to the point of prolonging games to pad stats. It's simply too easy to do if you have a party and the other team doesn't. Some of the weapons are so overpowering that there really is no challenge to doing it, and it just gets boring.

  • 11.29.2011 7:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

I liked it because it was the only place for some good Halo vehicle combat.

  • 11.29.2011 7:45 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Another point to add about challenging other full parties to a custom game.

Did it ever occur to you that people like to play with friends against an enemy?

It gets boring playing the same people, over and over again.

That enemy team, needs to be people I DON'T KNOW!
Otherwise it gets stale...quick.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 7:52 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S
Your friends list, is not my friends list, and it's not everyone elses friends list.


But those who play BTB the most, will have friends who also play BTB the most, etc., so I would say that a custom game would be fairly easy to set up.

That was the whole point of my post that you replied to.

  • 11.29.2011 7:52 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Think again.

Most of the people I meet in BTB, I would not add to my friends list.

Adding the proper people to that list by playing with them through matchmaking, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Kudos to you for putting a friends list together that supports YOU being able to play custom games on a constant basis.

It's rediculous to expect everyone to just wantonly add every dip-blam!- they run across in BTB just in the hopes of playing a custom game someday.

90% of the people on the BTB playlist, are stupid idiots. FACT!

I'm keeping my friends list just as it is. Friends and Family, and the rare occasional person that has more than proven himself of being worthy enough to be on that list.
If you're a total stranger... You haven't a chance in hell of ever being on my friends list.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 8:03 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 7:57 AM PDT

No one on Reach to have a big enough party?

  • 11.29.2011 7:57 AM PDT
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  • Intrepid Legendary Member

When the game is over, the king and pawn go into the same box

I think part of it is the lack of heavy versions from H3. Not all BTB gametypes had these elements in H3, but default Reach had those heavy vehicles from the get go. Yes, some alterations were made in Reach, but the heavy variants were never added. Giving people a choice is good start.

I think the map design and weapon placement is a huge factor as well. In H3, if you were on a map with the Gauss, you better make sure you secure the rockets/laser/power drain. Which brings up another point. Some of the vehicles in H3 were easily overcome with a well place energy drain. Not the case in Reach. The AA's do help to a degree, but it's not quite the same. This was especially useful on maps like Standoff. The map was pretty "round", and not long and narrow like Hemorrhage. The long and narrow layout pushes players in one direction. There's really not a lot of flanking.

So, I think it's a mix of elements, not just one thing in particular.

  • 11.29.2011 7:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S
Think again.

Most of the people I meet in BTB, I would not add to my friends list.

Adding the proper people to that list by playing with them through matchmaking, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Kudos to you for putting a friends list together that supports YOU being able to play custom games on a constant basis.

It's rediculous to expect everyone to just wantonly add every dip-blam!- they run across in BTB just in the hopes of playing a custom game someday.

90% of the people on the BTB playlist, are stupid idiots. FACT!


Most of them wouldn't add you either because I'm sure your -blam!- attitude on here translates over to XBL as well.

  • 11.29.2011 8:07 AM PDT

THATS MY COOL MAN I CAN'T TAKE IT OFF!

Reach (bloom, AAs)
The DMR
The banshee
The maps

List of changes that need to happen.
-Needle rifles off start, DMRs removed entirely. 85% bloom.
-Banshees removed, falcon primary air vehicle.
-Scorpion removed, wraith should appear much less often.
-Sprint only spawn AA. AL, evade, and holo pickups on map.
-All DLC required, most forge world maps removed. Trident, Wayont, and Utopie (with some changes, like falcon instead of banshee and extra structure for safer spawning) can stay. Add Incubus (BTB map by MrSaddo), it is AWESOME.
-Kill Spire with fire. Make big changes to Boneyard, or scrap it.
-Replace Hemorrhage with a better remake.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 8:13 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 8:11 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: Coux73
I think part of it is the lack of heavy versions from H3. Not all BTB gametypes had these elements in H3, but default Reach had those heavy vehicles from the get go. Yes, some alterations were made in Reach, but the heavy variants were never added. Giving people a choice is good start.

I think the map design and weapon placement is a huge factor as well. In H3, if you were on a map with the Gauss, you better make sure you secure the rockets/laser/power drain. Which brings up another point. Some of the vehicles in H3 were easily overcome with a well place energy drain. Not the case in Reach. The AA's do help to a degree, but it's not quite the same. This was especially useful on maps like Standoff. The map was pretty "round", and not long and narrow like Hemorrhage. The long and narrow layout pushes players in one direction. There's really not a lot of flanking.

So, I think it's a mix of elements, not just one thing in particular.


It's hard to imagine heavies being much fun because of how big of a problem the Scorpion and Banshee balance is already. Then there is the fact that the gauss hog is even more broken in terms of damage, rof, and the ability to shoot through many objects it isn't supposed to be able to shoot through. The laser isn't a huge threat to a banshee because of it's unlimited flip and roll ability. It isn't a huge threat to tanks or gauss hogs because they can fire twice (with ample splash damage) in the time it takes to charge and fire a laser shot.

So heavies would end up making the problem much worse, IMO. Who is gonna stay in games where they are spawn camped by a Banshee, Scorpion, snipers, and Gauss hog? If just 2 of those make the game unplayable, giving more are going to make it far worse.

  • 11.29.2011 8:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
  • user homepage:

Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Might as well add what a think ruined it.

There is nothing wrong with BTB in relation to any of the other playlist other than the size of the game.

With 4v4 compared to 8v8 you have a larger chance of someone out of that group being at their wits end, in terms of what they are willing to put up with.

With 8v8 playlists there is:
Larger chance to have uneven teams
Larger chance to have random solo players

Imagine if Halo had a 32 player room.
Now imagine that room without a join-in-progress feature.

  • 11.29.2011 8:25 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
  • user homepage:

Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!


Posted by: HerbalWalnut29

Posted by: MR E0S
Think again.

Most of the people I meet in BTB, I would not add to my friends list.

Adding the proper people to that list by playing with them through matchmaking, is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Kudos to you for putting a friends list together that supports YOU being able to play custom games on a constant basis.

It's rediculous to expect everyone to just wantonly add every dip-blam!- they run across in BTB just in the hopes of playing a custom game someday.

90% of the people on the BTB playlist, are stupid idiots. FACT!


Most of them wouldn't add you either because I'm sure your -blam!- attitude on here translates over to XBL as well.



It does not.

But I will tell someone who's throwing grenades at his own team vehicles right off the spawn where to shove it, see how long he persist at it, and quit the game if it continues.

Most the time I play without a mic, so who would know anyway.
You don't need a mic for as much visual cues you get in this game to let you know what is happening. Hell, I could play with no sound and have a better understanding of the entire battlefield than some people.

You think I want to play custom games with them? NO!

[Edited on 11.29.2011 8:30 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 8:28 AM PDT

Posted by: MR E0S
Now imagine that room without a join-in-progress feature.
You are still convinced that join-in-progress will solve the quitting problem?

  • 11.29.2011 8:29 AM PDT
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  • Intrepid Legendary Member

When the game is over, the king and pawn go into the same box


Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: Coux73
I think part of it is the lack of heavy versions from H3. Not all BTB gametypes had these elements in H3, but default Reach had those heavy vehicles from the get go. Yes, some alterations were made in Reach, but the heavy variants were never added. Giving people a choice is good start.

I think the map design and weapon placement is a huge factor as well. In H3, if you were on a map with the Gauss, you better make sure you secure the rockets/laser/power drain. Which brings up another point. Some of the vehicles in H3 were easily overcome with a well place energy drain. Not the case in Reach. The AA's do help to a degree, but it's not quite the same. This was especially useful on maps like Standoff. The map was pretty "round", and not long and narrow like Hemorrhage. The long and narrow layout pushes players in one direction. There's really not a lot of flanking.

So, I think it's a mix of elements, not just one thing in particular.


It's hard to imagine heavies being much fun because of how big of a problem the Scorpion and Banshee balance is already. Then there is the fact that the gauss hog is even more broken in terms of damage, rof, and the ability to shoot through many objects it isn't supposed to be able to shoot through. The laser isn't a huge threat to a banshee because of it's unlimited flip and roll ability. It isn't a huge threat to tanks or gauss hogs because they can fire twice (with ample splash damage) in the time it takes to charge and fire a laser shot.

So heavies would end up making the problem much worse, IMO. Who is gonna stay in games where they are spawn camped by a Banshee, Scorpion, snipers, and Gauss hog? If just 2 of those make the game unplayable, giving more are going to make it far worse.


I was thinking more as a way to segregate the heavy vehicles from default BTB gametypes. If they are given a low weight, the option wouldn't come up as much. BTB heavies on Standoff came up rarely. I don't see what they couldn't do the same in Reach rather than just removing them completely. They could also have it so that once heavies was vetoed, it wouldn't come up again as an option.

I also think the maps have a large say in how vehicles are utilized. A lot of the maps have obvious bottle necks, or forced paths which funnel players in one direction. The BTB maps should be a bit more open (for lack of a better term), and allow players to take multiple routes.

  • 11.29.2011 8:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S

It does not.

But I will tell someone who's throwing grenades at his own team vehicles right off the spawn where to shove it, see how long he persist at it, and quit the game if it continues.

Most the time I play without a mic, so who would know anyway.
You don't need a mic for as much visual cues you get in this game to let you know what is happening. Hell, I could play with no sound and have a better understanding of the entire battlefield than some people.

You think I want to play custom games with them? NO!


Sounds like you play BTB as a random so playing in a custom game with 2 full party teams wouldn't apply to you.

And yeah, I play with little or no sound as well. The female spartan's death cry gets on my nerves.

  • 11.29.2011 8:44 AM PDT

The DMR and AA's

  • 11.29.2011 8:59 AM PDT

Independent vehicle health meant that bad players could walk off their spawn and kill any vehicle if they DMRd it enough times.

No warning for plasma launcher/rockets/rocket hog killed air combat.

The fact that vehicles now do massive damage for only a short period of time killed vehicle combat.

The DMR's inefficiency at long range and the fact that most Big Team maps have huge lines of sight killed infantry combat.

Terrible maps.



[Edited on 11.29.2011 10:33 AM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 9:11 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Crap maps like wayont, abriged etc.

  • 11.29.2011 10:13 AM PDT

Bad maps.

Vehicle strength, placement, and quantity.

Spawn issues.

  • 11.29.2011 10:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

1. Buffing of Sniper Rifle

2. Lack of a large palet of vehicles

3. Lack of large maps such as Sandtrap, Avalanche, etc.

4. Reach's Bungie maps

5. AAs (Sure, Armor Lock is cool in Slayer and Objective, but keep it out of vehicle dependant gameplay)


The list goes on and on. I miss Halo 3.

  • 11.29.2011 10:31 AM PDT

Wait 4 Halo 4.

12 quitters per game and the retarded banshee

  • 11.29.2011 10:34 AM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

The 343 forums suck. They're full of retarded kids and mods who got butthurt in the B.net forums for being told that they're bad.

I think it's a combination of the awful maps, the unnecessary vehicle and power weapon changes, and the uneven matchmaking system.

How many games in Halo 3 had a full team match up against 8 Captains and lower, and the entire game was the team spawn-killing the randoms in the Banshee and other vehicles? How many times has a player gotten a 40+ spree in a Banshee? How many times did people quit out of every other game?

Overall, I think it was just Reach itself that ruined BTB.

  • 11.29.2011 10:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: lord of dahorde
Crap maps like wayont, abriged etc.

What!?

  • 11.29.2011 10:37 AM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Kira Onime
Reach.

  • 11.29.2011 10:38 AM PDT