Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?
  • Subject: What ruined BTB in Reach?

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Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi
I used to love BTB in Previous Halo games. The tug of war games of 8v8 we could have were amazing. In Reach, I don't think that magic was ever recaptured. I know it wasn't for me and many of my friends who could usually be found playing BTB in Halo 3. I've always loved the dynamic of having full map battles with the full range of the Halo arsenal available to you.

I gave BTB in Reach a healthy try, and still play it every so often if I end up with more than 6 people in a party, but I just don't enjoy it. I know maps were my first problem with it. From the start, all the maps were far too easy controlled with scorpions and Banshees. If you weren't in either, there was really no point in playing, because you were a non-factor in games. You might get lucky enough to score some assists shooting people off spawn before the tank or banshees got them.

Over time, Scorpions were replaced with Wraiths, A very solid map, Tempest, was added, and Banshees were largely replaced with Falcons. Plus, community maps were added that didn't feature the game-breaking vehicles, diluting out the the bad maps that remained. I do think that was a vast improvement, but I still got thoroughly sick of the list, and I just can't put my finger on it.

Going in with a party of 8, it is extremely hard to get a game that lasts 5 minutes before you win or everyone on the other team quits out. I even think I'd be hard pressed to find a game where at least one person on the other team didn't quit in the pre-game, leaving them short-handed and the game a foregone conclusion. Then, of course are the 20 minute long games of 8v1 where one player on the other team doesn't quit out and tries to HLG his way through the game with minimal deaths.

For me, I think it's all of the above, but mostly banshees and scorpions that killed BTB for me. They ruined the maps, and really took the strategy out of controlling games because they had no suitable counter once one side lost theirs. So, it started extremely unbalanced with no suitable maps. It got better maps and dropped some of the game-breaking vehicles, but by then, players have gotten so used to camping or quitting to avoid power weapons and vehicles, that games just weren't fun anymore.

What do you think, where exactly did BTB go wrong?


I saw the option 'all of the above' and had to change my pants. The Banshee and Scorpion are both broken. In halo 2 getting a killing spree or a running riot was a challenge. In this game you can just back flip + banshee bomb all day with some decent team support.

The lack of decent maps has been partially fixed with the Anniversary maps, as Headlong and Timberlands are both amazing.

People have been quitting since BTB started. Apart from there being a ranked playlist that people might actually care about, this isn't a new problem.

  • 11.29.2011 10:38 PM PDT
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I'm new to competitive Halo and Halo itself (Reach being my first video game ever actually). Message me if you want to play;

Reach: MLG, Arena, Doubles, BTB and customs.
Halo 3: Ranked MM and customs.

Also I have every Halo title and all of its DLC on the Xbox 360.
-Umpa

Lack of decent maps, or camo snipers/campers who try and boost their k/d in objective BTB.

Banshee and Scorpions are fine when not constantly reset with network manipulation. They were meant to be in BTB. Whether the vehicles are broken or not, is not what originally broke BTB.

[Edited on 11.29.2011 10:43 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2011 10:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!


Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: MR E0S
Now imagine that room without a join-in-progress feature.
You are still convinced that join-in-progress will solve the quitting problem?

Not completely.
It will never stop the first person from quitting.
But it will stop the 2nd and 3rd and 4th person from quitting.
They quit simply because the first person who quit does not get replaced and his absence is affecting the game.

If the first person who quit is quickly replaced.
The incentive for people to quit right behind him no longer exists.

And who cares if you join into a losing game?
Stick with that lobby and you will start all the rest of the matches from the beginning.
Small price to pay to have consistently full teams throughout all matches played.

And if you really wanted to do it right.
*If you join a game in progress, it should not track stats for you.
*If you join a game in progress, the only stats that should be tracked if anything, is K/D.
*W/L should not be tracked unless you played a match from the beginning.
*Quitters who started a match from the beginning should still receive a loss since they "Started" a match instead of joining one in progress.
*Quitters (don't misinterpret) who joined a game in progress are free to leave that game at any time without taking a hit to their precious W/L ratio.
*Persons who join a game in progress, and end up winning the game should not receive any special treatment. No updates to their W/L unless they "STARTED" a match.

Boom! Everyone is happy!

Not to mention the 'Join-in-progress' feature, is necessary for a working Tru-Skill system. Because the losers who suck leave and slowely get replaced by people who can hold their own against you. Eventually, the lobby will fill with people who are capable of fighting each other instead of having the match turn into a one sided spawn-camp. This will never happen with Halo's current system.

The real problem is, you people think that a simple math equation can successfully filter people according to skill level. I am not so naive. I'd rather leave it in the hands of each person individually to decide whether or not they belong in that room.

I say just get rid of stats and leaderboards altogether, and there would be no need to tip-toe the issue around your stupid W/L ratios.

[Edited on 11.30.2011 10:53 AM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 10:04 AM PDT

R.I.P. Halo 2 <33333333
Do not play halo much anymore. Barely ever come on here.

It just is not as chaotic and fast paced as Halo 3's BTB.

  • 11.30.2011 10:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Terrible maps, camo sniping,AL camping in the bases, and unbalanced vehicles. Gauss is OP, Banshee is OP, Ghost is UP, and Tank always beats Wraith. And the Warthog is made of paper.



The vehicle system pisses me off the most. It's basically rigged rock paper scissors.

Even if you got the drop on a warthog with a ghost, and the gunner had an 8 second awareness delay, you'd instantly lose when he began firing at you even through all of your planing and skill with a vehicle.


Or let's take the banshee vs falcon. The plasma repeaters are so crap against anything, and the falcon has the best range with it's machine guns, that a banshee is completely powerless the moment the gunners have sight of it.

And then the wraith and scorpion. I don't even have to say anything on that.

Toss in the DMR and then things get even worse.

  • 11.30.2011 10:25 AM PDT

"If you want to test a man's character, give him power" -- Abraham Lincoln

Where is the "Community" option?

  • 11.30.2011 10:29 AM PDT

THATS MY COOL MAN I CAN'T TAKE IT OFF!

A lot of the community maps are bad, but Trident and Utopie are good and should stay if the playlist ever gets an overhaul.

  • 11.30.2011 10:36 AM PDT

Posted by: MR E0S
If the first person who quit is quickly replaced.
The incentive for people to quit right behind him no longer exists.
What if the first quitter isn't replaced? You are assuming that everybody who searches would be okay with joining such a game.
Posted by: MR E0S
And who cares if you join into a losing game?
Stick with that lobby and you will start all the rest of the matches from the beginning.
Small price to pay to have consistently full teams throughout all matches played.
I'd still back out after every game to get new people in the next one.
Posted by: MR E0S
And if you really wanted to do it right.
*If you join a game in progress, it should not track stats for you.
Since everybody has a finite amount of time that they can play, many might want W/L and other stats tracked for any time they spend in game.
Posted by: MR E0S
Not to mention the 'Join-in-progress' feature, is necessary for a working Tru-Skill system. Because the losers who suck leave and slowely get replaced by people who can hold their own against you. Eventually, the lobby will fill with people who are capable of fighting each other instead of having the match turn into a one sided spawn-camp.
When I'm with a party for BTB, the first to quit are often the best out of the group of randoms we matched. They want to preserve their K/D. The worst players tend to stay in until the very end, because they have nothing to lose. Of course this is a generalization, but it is based off of my experience.
Posted by: MR E0S
The real problem is, you people think that a simple math equation can successfully filter people according to skill level. I am not so naive. I'd rather leave it in the hands of each person individually to decide whether or not they belong in that room.
The 1-50 system has worked in the past, so why couldn't it help create fair matches in Reach?
Posted by: MR E0S
I say just get rid of stats and leaderboards altogether, and there would be no need to tip-toe the issue around your stupid W/L ratios.
...but then we can't stat-whore.

  • 11.30.2011 11:32 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.


Posted by: SurreallFeal
BTB is OP's third most-played playlist...

Actually, it is my 5th most played.
Snipers: 531
Noble: 504
SWAT: 425
Team Slayer: 422
BTB: 354

In Halo 3, BTB was by far and away the playlist most played, with 1781 EXP in it. (and that is just wins, not counting losses or quits)

I gave BTB in Reach a decent try, and still end up playing from time to time if I get 8 in the party. Exactly why I made this thread.

  • 11.30.2011 11:36 AM PDT

Everything. I hate btb in Reach

  • 11.30.2011 11:36 AM PDT

~ Videogames are my favorite videogames ~

I won't say its ruined. But it needs more available official maps to vote on I think.

And some older classic BTB gametypes. Wheres my Flag Wars at?

  • 11.30.2011 11:51 AM PDT
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objective comes up 99% of the time in all 3 slots for voting, i want btb slayer not assualt all the time.

  • 11.30.2011 12:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!


I'd still back out after every game to get new people in the next one.


So would I.

Which brings me back to another argument about how stupid custom games are.

I'd like to play custom games with a wider pool of players than what they gave us.

-----------
And why are you -blam!-ing about BTB showing Obj 99% of the time.
You'll most likely play it like its a team slayer anyway.

Imagine if football was a game where the whole point was to just go out and butt heads with the other players on the field to see who gets knocked out first.

FPS's need objectives.

Best way to put it in perspective. 1v1.
If 1v1 had a secondary objective.
You wouldn't be able to get the first kill and hide the rest of the match. Like you people do.

IF you can't handle having that secondary objective. You shouldn't be playing FPS's.

[Edited on 11.30.2011 3:01 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 2:50 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

All o that, but they been slowly remedied, and ridgline from CEa is AMAZING.

  • 11.30.2011 2:54 PM PDT

ShadierLiam:

Screenshot artist, Map Creator, Screenshot Teacher. Nice to meet you :)

Reach ruined big team for me. Halo 3 was the best. To bad i have neither Reach Nor Halo 3 anymore. :(


[Edited on 11.30.2011 3:40 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 3:39 PM PDT