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Subject: Yet another question about the flood...would appreciate an answer

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Theories are supposed to have a logical basis, a theory =/= a hastily thrown together excuse to cover up the fact that you were wrong.

  • 11.30.2011 8:50 AM PDT

yas334229812

The halos did kill everything but the question is were there places the flood could have hidden themselves, were certain shield worlds slightly infected in certain spots, also how many out breaks from forerunner facilities.

The last reason would be did the flood have so much biomass in one area that the ring went through a huge amount of them before its effect started to weaken while going through the biomass and was negated at the last few.

  • 11.30.2011 9:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: grey101
That isn't funny whatsoever. The humor is in you always stating how "wrong" i am yet you only read the wiki's. That was not in the book and the main reason we don't like people using halopedian or whatever.


From Halo: Cryptum, chap. 34, page 271:

They found a cure. (Here I detected in the documents the admiration of the Lifeshaper herself.
Sacrifice yet again. Fully a third of the human species must be themselves altered, placed in the pathway of the Flood infestation, and fight fire with fire by infecting the Flood with a destructive set of programmed genes.


Sounds to me like the humans used genetics to kill of the Flood. Not everything on any wiki is made up garbage, sometimes people who know how to read update them.

You gonna tell me to please read the book too?

  • 11.30.2011 12:55 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: DRT 034
It isn't about whether he was right or wrong. It was the fact that his only source was the wiki, which are often unreliable at best.

  • 11.30.2011 5:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DRT 034

Posted by: grey101
That isn't funny whatsoever. The humor is in you always stating how "wrong" i am yet you only read the wiki's. That was not in the book and the main reason we don't like people using halopedian or whatever.


From Halo: Cryptum, chap. 34, page 271:

They found a cure. (Here I detected in the documents the admiration of the Lifeshaper herself.
Sacrifice yet again. Fully a third of the human species [u]must have[/i] themselves altered, placed in the pathway of the Flood infestation, and fight fire with fire by infecting the Flood with a destructive set of programmed genes.


Sounds to me like the humans used genetics to kill of the Flood. Not everything on any wiki is made up garbage, sometimes people who know how to read update them.

You gonna tell me to please read the book too?



It was never directly stated in the book what the humans did thus it isn't for anybody to say. For all we know they just injected some retrovirus or put salt in their mouths.
95 percent on the stuff on halopedian is incorrect, it is the worst gaming wikia to date. The fallout wiki could actually be used as a reference since they have a no BS tolerance and everything is sourced.

And like the guy above me said, don't use any wiki as your only source.

  • 12.01.2011 5:29 AM PDT

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Posted by: Death7452

Thank you for your answer. Did the Forerunners know that the ancient humans knew a cure for the flood before they de-evolutioned them?


The Forerunners destroyed the ancient humans themselves, with good reason mind you. However, in spite for the Forerunners, they destroyed the cure and all related materials.

  • 12.10.2011 12:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

There is no good reason in arrogance.

  • 12.10.2011 11:51 AM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: grey101
There is no good reason in arrogance.

We did kinda take some of their planets, to be fair.

But they were arrogant in that they didn't have the foresight to see the a race which defeated the Flood could help them with the same problem...

  • 12.10.2011 1:15 PM PDT
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Do you have what it takes to become a ninja? Join Ninja Academy
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KOTOR

The Flood arrived in the galaxy as a white powder. It seems that as a group they can survive almost anything.

  • 12.10.2011 9:56 PM PDT
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as natedogr said the flood arrived in the galaxy as a white powder. We don't know what happened during the time in between to make them into what they are.

In the end of Cryptum the timeless one is the last precursor, i'm guessing that the timeless one will become the Gravemind

  • 12.10.2011 10:28 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
There is no good reason in arrogance.


It wasn't arrogance however. Humans attacked the forerunners to get new planets for new colonies to run away from the flood. At this point the Forerunners didn't know of the flood and considered it an act of war. The never knew of the cure.

  • 12.11.2011 12:44 AM PDT
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This (and THIS) was for Reach...and/or Harvest

Urgh, well it's not pretty, to say the least, replete with the lowest common denominator, and generally the meeting place for the miscreance of bnet,.......... OH! You meant the ACTUAL flood not the forum ah, I see.

Clearly if the Forerunners had predicted that some spores survived then, they wouldn't have done it.

The shield worlds should have had safe guards against that though.... "Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

  • 12.11.2011 3:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xerzaph

Posted by: grey101
There is no good reason in arrogance.


It wasn't arrogance however. Humans attacked the forerunners to get new planets for new colonies to run away from the flood. At this point the Forerunners didn't know of the flood and considered it an act of war. The never knew of the cure.

You aren't a big picture or subtext kind of guy are you?


They fought humanity because they finally thought they were going to attack them, and out of spite for that race.

If two people have been rivals and aavoiding each other for decades; and one shows up at the other's door randomly do you expect them to ask "Why are you here?" or kick them in the balls?

The forerunners have over 3 million worlds Letting humanity have a few dozen if not hundred shouldn't be a problem for such a "noble" Race. They didn't even wonder or ask why humanity started acting odd all of a sudden. Not only that after they found out the reason they did nothing to fix what they had done, if it wasn't for the librarian and the cure humanity would have been killed off.

All of that in the name of this "mantle".

  • 12.11.2011 8:06 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Xerzaph
Posted by: Death7452
Thank you for your answer. Did the Forerunners know that the ancient humans knew a cure for the flood before they de-evolutioned them?

The Forerunners destroyed the ancient humans themselves, with good reason mind you. However, in spite for the Forerunners, they destroyed the cure and all related materials.

Good reason for genocide? How unbelievably narrow-minded.

The reason for the Forerunners destroying Humanity completely was through hubris, jealousy and ideology. No reasonable person could sensibly turn around and say that because "Humanity" attacked a few planets out of desperation that they are an innately savage race that should be completely destroyed because they are too dangerous to be left alive. Assuming that would be like purporting that the nation of Germany and all its people should have been wiped from the face of the map for the atrocities of the World Wars. Given how the motivation was through fear of the Flood and obvious resource and territorial pressures it stands even more to reason that the genocide conducted by the Forerunners was in no way done with good reason. The Forerunners are the savages, at least in my opinion.

[Edited on 12.11.2011 8:36 AM PST]

  • 12.11.2011 8:33 AM PDT

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Posted by: anton1792
The Forerunners destroyed the ancient humans themselves, with good reason mind you. However, in spite for the Forerunners, they destroyed the cure and all related materials.[/quote]
Good reason for genocide? How unbelievably narrow-minded.

The reason for the Forerunners destroying Humanity completely was through hubris, jealousy and ideology. No reasonable person could sensibly turn around and say that because "Humanity" attacked a few planets out of desperation that they are an innately savage race that should be completely destroyed because they are too dangerous to be left alive. Assuming that would be like purporting that the nation of Germany and all its people should have been wiped from the face of the map for the atrocities of the World Wars. Given how the motivation was through fear of the Flood and obvious resource and territorial pressures it stands even more to reason that the genocide conducted by the Forerunners was in no way done with good reason. The Forerunners are the savages, at least in my opinion.


The Forerunners did not know of humanity's plight. As far as they were concerned, ancient humanity were attacking occupied forerunner worlds at random. Is that not then to be perceived as an act of war? They did not know their desperation, even fear. In the end it was the Didact, known to be savage, who would have destroyed humanity, despite the mantle.

Posted by: grey101
You aren't a big picture or subtext kind of guy are you?


They fought humanity because they finally thought they were going to attack them, and out of spite for that race.

If two people have been rivals and aavoiding each other for decades; and one shows up at the other's door randomly do you expect them to ask "Why are you here?" or kick them in the balls?

The forerunners have over 3 million worlds Letting humanity have a few dozen if not hundred shouldn't be a problem for such a "noble" Race. They didn't even wonder or ask why humanity started acting odd all of a sudden. Not only that after they found out the reason they did nothing to fix what they had done, if it wasn't for the librarian and the cure humanity would have been killed off.

All of that in the name of this "mantle".


The first part, yes, second, yes, third? Why would the Forerunners have reason to ask Humanity what they were doing? You would not try to make peaceful contact with a race who had attacked, and most definitely killed the large numbers of forerunners who had been living on those planets.

To the Forerunners, the humans were no more than insects, easily stamped out. If they can do that, why wait for them to deal more damage? In the end it was the Didact who carried out the systematic extermination of human colonies. And it is very likely that most other Forerunners were opposed, the Librarian would have been.

[Edited on 12.12.2011 5:50 AM PST]

  • 12.12.2011 5:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xerzaph

Posted by: anton1792
The Forerunners destroyed the ancient humans themselves, with good reason mind you. However, in spite for the Forerunners, they destroyed the cure and all related materials.[/quote]
Good reason for genocide? How unbelievably narrow-minded.

The reason for the Forerunners destroying Humanity completely was through hubris, jealousy and ideology. No reasonable person could sensibly turn around and say that because "Humanity" attacked a few planets out of desperation that they are an innately savage race that should be completely destroyed because they are too dangerous to be left alive. Assuming that would be like purporting that the nation of Germany and all its people should have been wiped from the face of the map for the atrocities of the World Wars. Given how the motivation was through fear of the Flood and obvious resource and territorial pressures it stands even more to reason that the genocide conducted by the Forerunners was in no way done with good reason. The Forerunners are the savages, at least in my opinion.


The Forerunners did not know of humanity's plight. As far as they were concerned, ancient humanity were attacking occupied forerunner worlds at random. Is that not then to be perceived as an act of war? They did not know their desperation, even fear. In the end it was the Didact, known to be savage, who would have destroyed humanity, despite the mantle.

Posted by: grey101
You aren't a big picture or subtext kind of guy are you?


They fought humanity because they finally thought they were going to attack them, and out of spite for that race.

If two people have been rivals and aavoiding each other for decades; and one shows up at the other's door randomly do you expect them to ask "Why are you here?" or kick them in the balls?

The forerunners have over 3 million worlds Letting humanity have a few dozen if not hundred shouldn't be a problem for such a "noble" Race. They didn't even wonder or ask why humanity started acting odd all of a sudden. Not only that after they found out the reason they did nothing to fix what they had done, if it wasn't for the librarian and the cure humanity would have been killed off.

All of that in the name of this "mantle".


The first part, yes, second, yes, third? Why would the Forerunners have reason to ask Humanity what they were doing? You would not try to make peaceful contact with a race who had attacked, and most definitely killed the large numbers of forerunners who had been living on those planets.

To the Forerunners, the humans were no more than insects, easily stamped out. If they can do that, why wait for them to deal more damage? In the end it was the Didact who carried out the systematic extermination of human colonies. And it is very likely that most other Forerunners were opposed, the Librarian would have been.


As i said Subtext,big picture.

The point isn't wheter they knew or not why humanity was attacking rather they didn't try to learn and saw it as a chance to wipe their rival out. If they were any where as noble as they biasly claim to be it wouldn't have been like that.
Didact isn't known to be a savage nor would he have wiped humanity out seeing as he started noticing the entire "war" seemed odd. Not to mention he is one of the few hundred forerunners that knows the truth in which he stated he feels bad for what he had done.



The forerunners "Have reason" because they are suppouse to protect All life. That doesn't mean they should pick and chose who should live. "Large number of forerunners"? Their population numbers in the trillions if not higher, a few million forerunners dying isn't going to be a large number.

Um the humans were on the same tier if not slightly more advanced than the forerunners. The only reason humanity lost is because they were fighting 2 wars and were down to a third of their population. If they managed to cause such damage for 100 years despite the circumstances you would have to be insane to suggest they wouldn't beat the forerunners if they actually wanted to.

You really need to read cryptum atleast 3-4 times to fully understand it. I doubt you have from what you have been typing and from the lack of you understanding the larger picture.

  • 12.12.2011 6:15 AM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

You really need to read cryptum atleast 3-4 times to fully understand it. I doubt you have from what you have been typing and from the lack of you understanding the larger picture.


Hmmm... I have read, from varying different sources, it would seem they are not reliable... I'd like to talk about it more with you, if you don't mind?

  • 12.12.2011 6:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

SO your debating about something you haven't read? Great. Pm me

  • 12.12.2011 6:26 AM PDT

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Did read things, not Cryptum though... Other things lie, they are forever shunned.

  • 12.12.2011 6:48 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Xerzaph
Posted by: anton1792
The Forerunners destroyed the ancient humans themselves, with good reason mind you. However, in spite for the Forerunners, they destroyed the cure and all related materials.[/quote]
Good reason for genocide? How unbelievably narrow-minded.

The reason for the Forerunners destroying Humanity completely was through hubris, jealousy and ideology. No reasonable person could sensibly turn around and say that because "Humanity" attacked a few planets out of desperation that they are an innately savage race that should be completely destroyed because they are too dangerous to be left alive. Assuming that would be like purporting that the nation of Germany and all its people should have been wiped from the face of the map for the atrocities of the World Wars. Given how the motivation was through fear of the Flood and obvious resource and territorial pressures it stands even more to reason that the genocide conducted by the Forerunners was in no way done with good reason. The Forerunners are the savages, at least in my opinion.

The Forerunners did not know of humanity's plight. As far as they were concerned, ancient humanity were attacking occupied forerunner worlds at random. Is that not then to be perceived as an act of war? They did not know their desperation, even fear. In the end it was the Didact, known to be savage, who would have destroyed humanity, despite the mantle.

You are missing the point. Regardless of whether the act could have been taken as an act of war, there is absolutely no reason for the genocide the Forerunners conducted. The whole thing about them finding out about Humanity's plight only afterwards (Which I think is plain stupid but I digress.*) is entirely besides the point, and comes into play after the war when they fine well knew about it all but did not try to undo the damage that they did to Humanity. That above all else shows how corrupt their leadership were, how the war was driven by anything but righteous self-defence, and how arrogant and short sighted - utterly naive - the Forerunners were as a people in buying into the decisions of their leadership to commit to a full blown genocide like that.

[* The Forerunners, with all their resources and reach, could not find evidence of the Flood? Humanity, who were being beaten back by the Forerunners, never once thought to try to hand the Forerunners some samples as proof? I think they must have, it would be stupid otherwise, and I just do not think that the Forerunners were interested in looking at the evidence or looking for their own evidence. The Forerunners, who were also apparently unwilling to indulge in these claims about the Flood, claiming that it was an excuse made up by Humanity, indulged in them anyway after wiping out Humanity by building 12 super-weapons of mass destruction? Seems blatantly obvious to me that they wanted the competition gone. They are worse than the Covenant races.]

  • 12.12.2011 11:37 AM PDT

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Posted by: Sniffy66
The flood was kept alive in research facilities so they could be studied to try to find a cure for it like what Ancient Humanity did. The Universe was repopulated because the forerunners never thought a race would be stupid enough to release it so they considered it safe.

  • 12.12.2011 12:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: anton1792

You are missing the point. Regardless of whether the act could have been taken as an act of war, there is absolutely no reason for the genocide the Forerunners conducted. The whole thing about them finding out about Humanity's plight only afterwards (Which I think is plain stupid but I digress.*) is entirely besides the point, and comes into play after the war when they fine well knew about it all but did not try to undo the damage that they did to Humanity. That above all else shows how corrupt their leadership were, how the war was driven by anything but righteous self-defence, and how arrogant and short sighted - utterly naive - the Forerunners were as a people in buying into the decisions of their leadership to commit to a full blown genocide like that.

[* The Forerunners, with all their resources and reach, could not find evidence of the Flood? Humanity, who were being beaten back by the Forerunners, never once thought to try to hand the Forerunners some samples as proof? I think they must have, it would be stupid otherwise, and I just do not think that the Forerunners were interested in looking at the evidence or looking for their own evidence. The Forerunners, who were also apparently unwilling to indulge in these claims about the Flood, claiming that it was an excuse made up by Humanity, indulged in them anyway after wiping out Humanity by building 12 super-weapons of mass destruction? Seems blatantly obvious to me that they wanted the competition gone. They are worse than the Covenant races.]


I believe they were entirely justified in attacking humanity, killing millions of Forerunners would be a heinous crime, no matter which way you look at it. But the near complete extermination was probably a result of "oh, we have an excuse to wipe out our only (known) threat! Sweet!" War would have been acceptable, but that escalated to extermination, admittedly, due to the Forerunner's prejudice of the ancient humans. In this way, one can only assume that ancient humanity have been anything but friendly, in all likelihood they were just as bad as the Forerunners.

And even then, in the end, the Forerunners saved humanity, and all other sentient races in the galaxy, while they themselves perished. And in any case, the rings were built to be one final, last resort to stopping the flood. Not a galaxy-wide extermination weapon, least of all to kill their inheritors.

As for the "worse than the Covenant races"... Perhaps. Besides the San 'Shyuum, apparently the most conceited race in the galaxy."

I'm not saying that the Forerunners were the friendliest bunch. I'm just saying that they're not the warmongering terrors you seem to be making them out to be.

  • 12.12.2011 5:16 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Justified in attacking Humanity in a manner of self-defence, yeah. Justified to the point of removing any military capacity that Humanity has got maybe, and perhaps even to the point of subsuming them into their autocratic Ecumane and removing any sovereignty that they have. However the fact remains that they burned every last single Human world until there were none left and killed every last single Human until there were less than a few hundred - from the billions that there were - for simply being Human.

I doubt every Human was in agreeance with the attacks. People do not share the same opinion on anything and I doubt there would be landslide majority for this. What if their leadership ordered this, driven into a totalitarian madness by the Flood threat? What if, as actually happened, Humanity was not doing this out of malevolence? There are other factors which (Demonstrably) could have contributed to Humanity's actions that the Forerunner seemingly did not bother to investigate or consider. They assumed that all of Humanity were in on this, that they were warmongers and jumped to conclusions. Had they taken the time to properly investigate I do not see how they could not turn up a single shred of evidence for the Flood. It really seems to me that the Forerunners were just itching at the first chance to strike and forever destroy their competition.

In the book it was revealed that Humanity considered itself to be the rightful inheritors of the Mantle, which the Forerunners considered to be a heresy. Obviously they would have to believe and follow its tenets otherwise who the heck do they think they are trying to kid by saying that they are the rightful heirs? That would be like trying to convince someone that you are a God fearing Christian whilst publicly practising Satanic rituals. The whole "Humanity are just as bad or worse" fails to account for this. It also bases itself on the way that we act as a society just now, which will not always be the case. 100 years ago slavery and debauchment of an entire ethnic group was the norm as well as the viewpoint that woman were second class citizens. Now all that has changed, and more on what we now consider to be ethical. Though somehow, Humanity in 500 years, or the way it was as a highly advanced society in the distant past capable of rivalling the Forerunners must obviously be the same as we are now: Squabbling and xenophobic. That flops completely on account of completely ignoring the moral zeitgeist.

A final point, in reference to the idea that the Forerunners ultimately saved us. That is not entirely accurate. It was the Librarian - And the Librarian alone - that is to be thnked for why there are any Humans still around. Were it up to the Didact, he would have massacred every last one at Charum Hakkor and no one would have stopped him. Had it been left to anyone else, Humanity might not have even seen the Ark, and have been left behind. The Forerunners teach their children how Humans are essentially nasty, warmongering apes to be looked down upon. No Librarian = No Humans post Array firing.

  • 12.12.2011 6:39 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

The flood came from outside the galaxy, so it is possible during this time more arrived.

  • 12.13.2011 1:29 AM PDT

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