Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why can't you just admit Reach was a failure?
  • Subject: Why can't you just admit Reach was a failure?
Subject: Why can't you just admit Reach was a failure?

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Posted by: Viper Skills

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Everyone I know who has ever played Reach, most aren't even Halo players, call bloom and armor lock retarded.


GF caught me raging one time and asked why. I explained Armor Lock to her and she said (and I quote), "Wow that's stupid".

Someone who doesn't even play Halo realizes its faults, so why can't the players who do see it?


She also got her first taste of armor lock from someone who absolutely despises it. No offense to you and I'm sure as hell not defending that trash, but it's a biased introduction.



If I remember correctly, I said something like "It allows you to become invulnerable for 5 seconds at the cost of your mobility, essentially creating a time-out in the middle of a battle for you"

Biased? Probably, but that's all she needed to know to make the assessment herself.

  • 11.30.2011 6:06 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Viper Skills


She also got her first taste of armor lock from someone who absolutely despises it. No offense to you and I'm sure as hell not defending that trash, but it's a biased introduction.


Friend came up to me, he has never played a Halo game before, he thought that I liked Reach so it wasn't because of me, you wanna know what he told me?

Dude, Armor Lock is so -blam!- -blam!-.


That's also one person. Talk to most people who consider themselves Halo fans but are not informed/care enough to know the intricate details of the game... They will likely tell you armor lock does not bother them.

Seriously, go to a midnight release for a game and complain about armor lock, how it breaks the game, etc. etc. and see just how many people know and/or care about what you're talking about.

  • 11.30.2011 6:06 PM PDT

Planking : Parkour for people who don't move very fast.

Not to nit pick, but ...

Posted by: FatM
Reach is the worst Halo game, by far.

Reach dropped to number 3 days after release, and has been dropping since. Halo 3 stood strong as number 1 for 2 years after release, and still stood strong as number 2 after MW2 took its place until lolReach came along.

Except for this week, when it rose one spot above GoW3

Reach has retarded gameplay that was so bad it needed its core engine changed via a title update just to try to get people to come back.

Core engine change? Last time I checked, the TU isn't going game wide as promised. lolReach will still be lolReach, save for a couple playlists. And the TU isn't the only thing 343 has done to try to drag people back to Reach. CEA multiplayer, custom challenges, and super jackpots could all be seen as trying to bolster the player base.

In all fields, Halo 3 surpassed Halo: Reach.

Now because of Reach, CoD owns the Xbox 360. Hell, a game that's an entire year older than it, MW3, is passing it.

You mean MW2.

Not only that, but 343i has hinted sooo many times that Reach was, basically, a bad Halo game.

Just say it. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. That's just your opinion. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. Just don't be in denial of facts.

inb4you'rebad
inb4you'rewrongbecausemyopinionisGod
inb4OPcan'tinb4

  • 11.30.2011 6:07 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Viper Skills
Again, you are ignoring the other side of the street your argument is on because it is very much a two-way street. You are saying that the same things that make Reach boring, dull, and flat out stupid are the things that make games like CoD sell millions on day one.
Huh? CoD doesn't even have anywhere near slow-paced or even medium-paced gameplay. It's not even comparable.
Posted by: Viper Skills
People like casual-ness and people like instant gratification. Reach did try to go more casual than previous Halo games and no matter what Halo will ALWAYS get "out-casualed" by CoD.

Do I like the fact that Bungie tried to dumb their game down? Hell no. Do I attribute it to the lack of players? Absolutely not. This is basic marketing... Halo cannot be better at being Call of Duty than Call of Duty can.
I don't get this. You have the type of people that like "casual-ness" and you have the type of people that don't. Two types of people. If you know one game is going to completely capture this audience, why would you make them your primary target? You'd think that Bungie would be targeting the "moderates."

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Zomechin
Implying the hardcore/competitive community is the only part of the overall community that dislikes sluggish gameplay and annoying things in general?


I myself have never seen a casual complain about armor lock, bloom or anything else.
I've heard hundreds of people complain about AL in-game while playing Rumble Pit, all sucky ones (presumably casual).

[Edited on 11.30.2011 6:09 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 6:08 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

Because it is a perspective opinion and nothing more. The amount of people who vigorously complain or defend the game is laughable. People need to get over how other people feel about the game.

  • 11.30.2011 6:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.

Another example,

One friend who was really into COD. He said that COD took more skill than Reach. I didn't argue, just asked him why. He said Armor Lock and Bloom. He wasn't a very big Halo guy, so the other flaws like OP grenades and no bleed through didn't make themselves apparent to him.

I then asked what he thought of Halo 3. He said that it takes a lot more skill than Reach and COD.

Everyone with an IQ above table thinks (knows) this game sucks. The whole "Halo just isn't as popular" explanation doesn't make up for the fact that we're not even in the top five population wise anymore.

  • 11.30.2011 6:11 PM PDT

Your presence here is quite unneeded. Begone you!!!

If you admit you're a failure I'll think about it

  • 11.30.2011 6:12 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: Zomechin
I don't get this. You have the type of people that like "casual-ness" and you have thte type of people that don't. Two types of people. If you know one game is going to completely capture this audience, why would you make them your primary target? You'd think that Bungie would be targeting the "moderates."


Casuals make up a sizable portion of the total sales. For sizable, I mean more than 90%. This explains and supports my hypothesis.

No offense, but you guys simply jumped on the, "I hate Bungie," wagon without even thinking about it. Bungie is a company. They obviously saw what was happening and what kinds of games sell big - the kinds of games that are passing up Halo.

You guys honestly think that the average-joe gamer off the street would read "lolbloom" and know what the hell that means? You think he would react the way you guys are and go off on a tirade about how much bloom sucks? NO! Because the guy doesn't even know what the hell bloom is!

Hence; gimmicks are NOT the reason Reach's population is suffering.

I'm not pro-Reach. I hate so many things about the game. I'm just arguing from an infinitely more logical perspective than you guys currently are.

  • 11.30.2011 6:13 PM PDT

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Posted by: Viper Skills
I'm not pro-Reach. I hate so many things about the game. I'm just arguing from an infinitely more logical perspective than you guys currently are.


That's why we love you Viper.

  • 11.30.2011 6:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Viper Skills

Seriously, go to a midnight release for a game and complain about armor lock, how it breaks the game, etc. etc. and see just how many people know and/or care about what you're talking about.


Most, if not all of them will be bad players. Those guys buy the game no matter what. It's the actual gameplay that brings in the rest of the population. Reach doesn't have good gameplay. It doesn't bring in anyone. It barely holds onto the competitive community for obvious reasons, and it doesn't draw in any new players because...well it sucks.

The two players I told you about could have become Halo fans. If this was around Halo 3's time, I'm sure that they would have liked the game.

  • 11.30.2011 6:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Yamadog27
Opinions are like butholes. Everyone's got one, nobody wants to hear about it.

Cool opinion, bro.

  • 11.30.2011 6:17 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Viper Skills

Seriously, go to a midnight release for a game and complain about armor lock, how it breaks the game, etc. etc. and see just how many people know and/or care about what you're talking about.


Most, if not all of them will be bad players.


Yes. Exactly. But a player's skill does not make them count as two people on a population counter like Major Nelson's blog and does not count as two sales towards the game itself.

  • 11.30.2011 6:17 PM PDT

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Posted by: SouthPoIe

Reach just doesn't have that addicting pull

[Edited on 11.30.2011 6:18 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 6:17 PM PDT

Halo 3 was in third a year before Halo: Reach even came out. Then Halo: Reach took that spot. Then more games game out and the populations have split even more. I haven't even touched Reach save once since September.

And I like the game.

Therefore... again, you come off like you're five years old.

  • 11.30.2011 6:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Reach just doesn't have that addicting pull


And it definitely has at least something to do with the gameplay.

  • 11.30.2011 6:19 PM PDT

Your presence here is quite unneeded. Begone you!!!


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Viper Skills

Seriously, go to a midnight release for a game and complain about armor lock, how it breaks the game, etc. etc. and see just how many people know and/or care about what you're talking about.


Most, if not all of them will be bad players. Those guys buy the game no matter what. It's the actual gameplay that brings in the rest of the population. Reach doesn't have good gameplay. It doesn't bring in anyone. It barely holds onto the competitive community for obvious reasons, and it doesn't draw in any new players because...well it sucks.

The two players I told you about could have become Halo fans. If this was around Halo 3's time, I'm sure that they would have liked the game.


All about bells and whistles these days. I have to admit that Reach doesn't have all the bells and whistles that people want and that's why they aren't appealing to anyone anymore. I choose to play Reach mostly because it's less irritating than most other games out there and play the CEA because that's the Halo I grew up on.

  • 11.30.2011 6:19 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Viper Skills
So, if Halo goes back to its roots (and innovates immensely) with Halo 4 and it happens to stay way higher on the charts than Reach did, what would be the explanation?

I'm betting "Oh, just reduced competition." When in reality, it'll be from various aspects, such as the reintroduction of the real Halo story and multiplayer that Halo-Xbox fans fell in love with (chief).

Or maybe I'm wrong.

  • 11.30.2011 6:20 PM PDT

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Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
The world can't end next month. My yogurt expires in 2013 - Princess Cadence
If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers

I loved ODST, but Master Chief is Halo to me. I think that's part of the reason why Halo's dropped from the top spot. 3 Halo games without the chief were released since Halo 3. That's like a Mario game without Mario in it

[Edited on 11.30.2011 6:22 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 6:22 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
I loved ODST, but Master Chief is Halo to me. I think that's part of the reason why Halo's dropped from the top spot. 3 Halo games without the chief were released since Halo 3. That's like a Mario game without Mario in it
I agree. There's a reason they reverted back to the chief. There's a reason that Microsoft called the straying from the chief "a misstep."

  • 11.30.2011 6:23 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Viper Skills
So, if Halo goes back to its roots (and innovates immensely) with Halo 4 and it happens to stay way higher on the charts than Reach did, what would be the explanation?

I'm betting "Oh, just reduced competition." When in reality, it'll be from various aspects, such as the reintroduction of the real Halo story and multiplayer that Halo-Xbox fans fell in love with (chief).

Or maybe I'm wrong.


We will have to see what happens. In all reality, yes, it may very well be reduced competition. Modern Warfare 3 just came out so the next CoD title is already at a disadvantage. Gears of War is done. Battlefield just released their game.

Plus, the gaping, giant hole in your logic is as follows:

If people play games for the reasons you are suggesting, why is Halo 3 not being played more than Reach?

  • 11.30.2011 6:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.

Reach doesn't even appeal to the casual community like COD does. There's still the skill gap, no matter how battered it currently is, it's still there. Casuals aren't going to like that. They're going to go play COD.

Wanna know who Reach appeals to? The bad Halo community. It's literally a Halo game made for the bad players.
The competitive community doesn't like it, the casuals don't like it, the bad players do.

  • 11.30.2011 6:24 PM PDT

Your presence here is quite unneeded. Begone you!!!


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Viper Skills
So, if Halo goes back to its roots (and innovates immensely) with Halo 4 and it happens to stay way higher on the charts than Reach did, what would be the explanation?

I'm betting "Oh, just reduced competition." When in reality, it'll be from various aspects, such as the reintroduction of the real Halo story and multiplayer that Halo-Xbox fans fell in love with (chief).

Or maybe I'm wrong.


That be right. What made Halo what it was is the campaign and the chief (though playing as chief didn't matter to me). Multiplayer though always changes

  • 11.30.2011 6:24 PM PDT

"I am Scourge, Leader of BloodClan, and I have won!"

I don`t care for Armor lock and I like Halo: Reach, sure I get frustrated when someone spams it but I don`t rage quit and and crack it in half.

  • 11.30.2011 6:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: Maximus Decimus
Agreed. All the changes are good and add variety. Do we really want another Halo 3? Just running around with one gun and no armor abilities? It's good that 343 wants to try something new. Do we really want the same thing for three more games?

Did you give her a biased explanation?


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Everyone I know who has ever played Reach, most aren't even Halo players, call bloom and armor lock retarded.


GF caught me raging one time and asked why. I explained Armor Lock to her and she said (and I quote), "Wow that's stupid".

Someone who doesn't even play Halo realizes its faults, so why can't the players who do see it?

  • 11.30.2011 6:24 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

As much as I love ODST, I must say that I do attribute some of Reach's failure to ODST. Basically because ODST was not the next "big Halo title" that people crave.

If a Halo game does not have "Halo 4" on it then it's at a disadvantage. ODST really drove that home and once Reach came out then people likely thought it was going to be another one of those games.

  • 11.30.2011 6:25 PM PDT