Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo ProMod/SkillMod
  • Subject: Halo ProMod/SkillMod
Subject: Halo ProMod/SkillMod
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

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With how wonderful Halo: Combat Evolved is in the Halo franchise, we've all felt some flaws here and there. Things that we didn't like and gave less skilled players a leg up on higher skilled players. Even though, as most of you will agree, Halo: Combat Evolved is the best in this series at preventing that, there are still times where this occurs. While there might not be a way to eliminate this completely, I believe there are ways to stop it from happening as much as we can. The way being through simple modding.

I've decided to go ahead and start work on a simple mod that aims to do that. Simple things such as editing weapons, grenades, vehicles, etc. Seeing as though I am, by no means, all knowing on what could help make this a great competitive mod, I'm asking all of you for suggestions. I know that some of you will probably say that Halo: Combat Evolved was perfect and my changes will only hurt it. While I respect that, I urge you to hear me out. I know this mod might not be for all, but I'm making it for anyone who may feel the same way I do.

Changes so far:
SparkEdit Changes:
-These vary from map to map. For non-vehicular maps I removed Rocket Launchers/Fuel Rods. I remove flamethrowers every time.

-Removed all grenades from non-vehicular maps (Definitely up for debate)

-Removed Overshields and Active Camo from non-vehicular maps. (Open for debate whether or not should be taken out from larger maps as well. Also, if we keep it in, where do I put them that will better for gameplay?)


HHT/HMT Changes:
-Shortened the blast radius of the frag grenade slightly and decreased the damage of the frag grenades. This was to ensure that if you recharge your shields another grenade won't kill you.

-Rocket Launcher only has one rocket per "clip" and you can only carry up to 2 rockets at a time forcing you to reload after every rocket. It also makes using the rocket launcher more strategic in nature due to the small ammo count.

-Flag/Ball kill in one hit instead of two. I decided that its already hard enough to melee someone on Halo PC due to netcode. There is no reason to leave the flag carrier that defenseless.

-Max grenades that can be carried are two. You also start with only 1 frag grenade. This is to avoid grenade spam which is often found in this game. In large part this is due to less skilled players giving up on trying to shoot. Instead they spam grenades hoping to win.

(I would have made it a Plasma Grenade instead, but I ran into a problem editing plasma grenade counts in HMT.)

~Considering removing the stun effect you get when being attacked by Plasma Rifle bolts. Might buff it in another area to make up for it.


Everything here is open to debate. I trust you all to be fair with your input and I hope that we can all work together to make this as best as we can. Do keep in mind that all the changes have to be in a way that doesn't matter if you have the mod or not. Meaning that if a server is running the mod it will all work perfectly fine if the person joining is using the default maps.

(P.S. I'm really looking for some input right now for vehicles specifically. )

List of maps being included:
Damnation
Rat Race
Chill Out
Blood Gulch
Sidewinder
Derelict
Danger Canyon
Hang 'Em High


[Edited on 12.26.2011 8:38 AM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 6:31 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

Here are some suggested gametypes for the mod:

Team Slayer:
Game Rules:
Death Bonus: No
Kill In Order: No
Kill Penalty: No
Kills to Win: 50
Team Play: Yes
Time Limit: None

Player Options:
Number Of Lifes: Infinite
Maximum Health: 100%
Shields: Yes
Respawn Time: Instant
Respawn Time Growth: None
Odd Man Out: No
Invisible Players: No
Suicide Penalty: None

Item Options:
Infinite Grenades: No
Weapon Set: Normal
Starting Equipment: Generic

Vehicle Options:
1 Warthog 1 Ghost

Indicator Options
Objectives Indicator: Motion Tracker
Other Players On Radar: All
Friend Indicators On Screen: Yes

Teamplay Options
Friendly Fire: Off (I would turn this on for private matches. In pubs it's just an annoyance.)
Friendly Fire Penalty: None
Auto Team Balance: No


Capture the Flag:
Game Rules:
Assault: No
Single Flag: Off
Flag Must Reset: No
Flag At Home To Score: Yes
Captures To Win: 3
Time Limit: None

Player Options:
Number Of Lifes: Infinite
Maximum Health: 100%
Shields: Yes
Respawn Time: Instant
Respawn Time Growth: None
Odd Man Out: No
Invisible Players: No
Suicide Penalty: None

Item Options:
Infinite Grenades: No
Weapon Set: Normal
Starting Equipment: Generic

Vehicle Options:
Vehicle Respawn Time: None
1 Warthog 1 Ghost

Indicator Options
Objectives Indicator: None
Other Players On Radar: None
Friend Indicators On Screen: Yes

Teamplay Options
Friendly Fire: Off
Friendly Fire Penalty: None
Auto Team Balance: No


[Edited on 12.26.2011 8:36 AM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 7:24 PM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Noble cause, but I think it's a bit too late. Most of the players who were able to move on to newer games, such as myself, already have. Something like this would have been awesome years ago, maybe even could have been a staple for back when competitive HPC was thriving, but I just don't see it picking up today.

  • 11.30.2011 8:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
Noble cause, but I think it's a bit too late. Most of the players who were able to move on to newer games, such as myself, already have. Something like this would have been awesome years ago, maybe even could have been a staple for back when competitive HPC was thriving, but I just don't see it picking up today.
That's honestly what I've been feeling. I still feel like doing it just for the fact the game deserves it. Whether or not people will use it means little to nothing to me at this point. Just wish I would have done it earlier... :/

[Edited on 11.30.2011 9:08 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2011 9:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx
The one obvious thing is getting rid of the "Touch of Death" but I'm not sure I can do that. :X)


Unless I made some kind of mistake, vehicular kills are a special case in the programming where being hit by one simply causes you to drop dead as opposed to having a certain amount of damage inflicted upon you and then checking for death (headshots/falling are an exception).

I don't think you'll be able to change it. :(

Instaedit: Although you could with a bit of modding to the actual server application.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 1:52 AM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 1:50 AM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: Btcc22
Posted by: Dr Syx
The one obvious thing is getting rid of the "Touch of Death" but I'm not sure I can do that. :X)


Unless I made some kind of mistake, vehicular kills are a special case in the programming where being hit by one simply causes you to drop dead as opposed to having a certain amount of damage inflicted upon you and then checking for death (headshots/falling are an exception).

I don't think you'll be able to change it. :(

Instaedit: Although you could with a bit of modding to the actual server application.
Which I sure as hell don't have the knowledge for. :/

I pretty much knew I couldn't fix the touch of death, but I didn't want to throw the possibility out seeing as though every time I do one of you ends up showing me how. xD

  • 12.01.2011 5:11 AM PDT

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I'm quite sure the touch of death is fixable, I remember seeing a video on youtube about it. It was in CE but you could always compile the map with the updated vehicle tags, use Harbinger to convert the map to PC format and PMI inject the vehicle meta into the map (or something like that, I don't remember, haven't done it in a long time) and then host the map.

Also, Plasma Rifle, keep the stun. The PR in the newer games is just a weapon used to deplete shields before switching to a human weapon or finishing with a melee, the original one's stun made it more useful on it's own

[Edited on 12.01.2011 7:06 AM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 6:57 AM PDT


Posted by: SpaceCade7
I'm quite sure the touch of death is fixable, I remember seeing a video on youtube about it. It was in CE but you could always compile the map with the updated vehicle tags, use Harbinger to convert the map to PC format and PMI inject the vehicle meta into the map (or something like that, I don't remember, haven't done it in a long time) and then host the map.

Also, Plasma Rifle, keep the stun. The PR in the newer games is just a weapon used to deplete shields before switching to a human weapon or finishing with a melee, the original one's stun made it more useful on it's own

Hmm interesting, I was under the impression the tough of death with vehicles was due to the game not having a proper physics engine so it assumed that all vehicles were moving at enough speed to kill something, I'm fairly certain this was confirmed somewhere but please don't take this as fact. With future Halo games, they had a physics engine (Havok i believe?) but if this "touch of death" is fixable, it will be interesting to see how the gameplay changes.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 7:56 AM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 7:55 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

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Posted by: SpaceCade7
I'm quite sure the touch of death is fixable, I remember seeing a video on youtube about it. It was in CE but you could always compile the map with the updated vehicle tags, use Harbinger to convert the map to PC format and PMI inject the vehicle meta into the map (or something like that, I don't remember, haven't done it in a long time) and then host the map.
If you can find the video and mod then I'll gladly put that in! Any hope to remove that is welcomed. xD

Also, Plasma Rifle, keep the stun. The PR in the newer games is just a weapon used to deplete shields before switching to a human weapon or finishing with a melee, the original one's stun made it more useful on it's ownThe stun is annoying. Yes, it makes the gun useful in comparison to the AR, but I think there should be an alternative way to make it useful. I could reduce the spread to make it more accurate. Therefore it would be a great long range tool. Even then I think the role of it being used to take down shields is a nice role. Even though, in many ways, the Plasma Pistol does just that.

Posted by: Wilis_kid
Hmm interesting, I was under the impression the tough of death with vehicles was due to the game not having a proper physics engine so it assumed that all vehicles were moving at enough speed to kill something, I'm fairly certain this was confirmed somewhere but please don't take this as fact. With future Halo games, they had a physics engine (Havok i believe?) but if this "touch of death" is fixable, it will be interesting to see how the gameplay changes.
Havok is the physics engine they started using from Halo 2 on and I was under the same impressions you were. I just hope Cadet is right. >.> Any chance I can get rid of that annoyance the better.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 10:02 AM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 10:00 AM PDT

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Try this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1291

  • 12.01.2011 12:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: SpaceCade7
Try this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1291
<3

Will be implementing and testing now.

Edit: Just to make sure, do you know if people will still be able to join without having the mod? I'm sure messing with one tag won't hurt, but I just want to make sure.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 1:43 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 1:32 PM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: SpaceCade7
Try this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1291
<3

Will be implementing and testing now.

Edit: Just to make sure, do you know if people will still be able to join without having the mod? I'm sure messing with one tag won't hurt, but I just want to make sure.


I can't imagine this mod being used on any of the public servers, so it doesn't matter much either way.

  • 12.01.2011 3:00 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: Tempus Irae

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: SpaceCade7
Try this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1291
<3

Will be implementing and testing now.

Edit: Just to make sure, do you know if people will still be able to join without having the mod? I'm sure messing with one tag won't hurt, but I just want to make sure.


I can't imagine this mod being used on any of the public servers, so it doesn't matter much either way.
Why not? I've already had someone request I do the same with Custom Edition for their server.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 4:30 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 4:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Tempus Irae

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: SpaceCade7
Try this http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1291
<3

Will be implementing and testing now.

Edit: Just to make sure, do you know if people will still be able to join without having the mod? I'm sure messing with one tag won't hurt, but I just want to make sure.


I can't imagine this mod being used on any of the public servers, so it doesn't matter much either way.
Why not? I've already had someone request I do the same with Custom Edition for their server.


Remember Banzai Banshe? The server where, when they switched to their custom maps, caused all of their users without the maps to crash?

You're injecting a new tag. You see where this is going?

  • 12.01.2011 5:50 PM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

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Posted by: Tempus Irae
Remember Banzai Banshe? The server where, when they switched to their custom maps, caused all of their users without the maps to crash?

You're injecting a new tag. You see where this is going?
I asked him if this would cause people with the default maps to not be able to join, see where this is going?

If that would in fact stop people with the default maps from joining the server, I'm not going to implement it. I made that clear in the OP and again when I asked him if it would. Sorry for my ignorance towards the situation, but that's what questions are for, which I did in fact ask.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 6:04 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 5:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Tempus Irae
Remember Banzai Banshe? The server where, when they switched to their custom maps, caused all of their users without the maps to crash?

You're injecting a new tag. You see where this is going?
I asked him if this would cause people with the default maps to not be able to join, see where this is going?

If that would in fact stop people with the default maps from joining the server, I'm not going to implement it. I made that clear in the OP and again when I asked him if it would. Sorry for my ignorance towards the situation, but that's what questions are for, which I did in fact ask.


I had no intention of being offensive in my post. Sorry if it came off that way.

  • 12.01.2011 6:06 PM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

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Posted by: Tempus Irae

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Tempus Irae
Remember Banzai Banshe? The server where, when they switched to their custom maps, caused all of their users without the maps to crash?

You're injecting a new tag. You see where this is going?
I asked him if this would cause people with the default maps to not be able to join, see where this is going?

If that would in fact stop people with the default maps from joining the server, I'm not going to implement it. I made that clear in the OP and again when I asked him if it would. Sorry for my ignorance towards the situation, but that's what questions are for, which I did in fact ask.


I had no intention of being offensive in my post. Sorry if it came off that way.
It's okay :P I do that all the time myself so I can easily understand.

It is slightly hard to not be offended when being related to that "Banzai Banshee Server" guy, though. :/

Is there anything at all you could suggest for the mod, by the way? I'm still looking for things to do with the vehicles. I can't really think of much when it comes to them. Maybe they're fine.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 6:16 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 6:12 PM PDT

In terms of vehicles, assuming you're not outright removing the Banshee and Scorpion, here are my suggestions:

Warthogs: They're fine. Leave them the way they are.

Banshee: I have always considered the Banshee an excellent anti-warthog device. With the removal of vehicle collision insta-death it would be pragmatic to give the banshee a couple of advantages in the field it specializes in:

1: Increase the area of effect for the banshee-bomb. This will make it easier to flip hogs with it.

2: Increase the delay between firing banshee-bombs. This will put the previous occupants of the flipped warthog and the driver of the banshe on even footing. The banshe can gun down the players with the plasma cannon, while the occupants can bring it down with a pistol or any other weapon.

3: Allow plasma bolts fired from the banshe to stun, like the plasma rifle.

Scorpion: Decrease the speed, increase the accuracy of the chain gun, and limit the camera along the Z-coordinate further while in the scorpion, making it much weaker to banshe's. Previously the scorpion could defeat every vehicle. With the removal of heavy weapons in this mod, it will be somewhat harder to kill, but still vulnerable to a simple shot in the head.

Ghost: Increase maneuverability, increase firing speed.


Other improvements I can think of are slight scaling-up of the banshe in order to prevent it from being driven in through the top of a base, which can cause people to fall through the map. Also, I do like the idea of making the PR stronger, and I would like to see more needlers. The plasma pistol's primary firing mode should be stronger and more accurate, to make it a good choice of a weapon.

I'd like to see shotgun spread be reduced slighty, but that's really only because I like the shotty. The sniper contrail should have a longer life, so that people who experience sudden, unfortunately lag still have time to pinpoint their attacker.

I agree with the weakening of the grenades, but nade spammers usually are unsuccessful in their endeavors, as grenades are practically pointless in a fight in an open area anyway.

  • 12.01.2011 6:57 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

I am extremely thankful for your input. Most of this I'm definitely going to use.

Warthogs: Completely agreed.

Banshee:

1. Oddly enough, while everything in this mod doing with explosions has been to reduce their effects, I agree with you on the banshee. Seeing as though grenades are going to be much... rarer than normal Halo, you'll need an effective tool against warthogs.

2. Perfect way to balance the power given to the banshee.

3. Due to popular demand I'm not relieving the PR/banshee from its stunning effects. It's safe

Scorpion: Even though my gametype I'll recommend for us with this mod won't have scorpions, it does make sense to mod them if people want them.

I think Scorpions should still be around as a banshee killer. While with the adjustments we've talked about to the banshee would make it easier for foot soldiers to kill, I think they still need something to take them down. The weak point, as always, to the scorpion is the open latch. A Pistol or a Sniper are its weakness. :P (Another thing, will joiners with default maps see the slowing of the scorpion properly? I imagine it might seem like it's going the same speed, but rubberbanding slightly.)

Ghost: Completely agreed, but will joiners without the mods be able to see the difference in firing speed?

Shotgun: The shotgun on Halo: Combat Evolved is already seen as having too far of a distance :/

Sniper: Sniper contrails wouldn't appear longer for players without the mods so it wouldn't really make a difference.

  • 12.01.2011 8:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Tempus Irae

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Tempus Irae
Remember Banzai Banshe? The server where, when they switched to their custom maps, caused all of their users without the maps to crash?

You're injecting a new tag. You see where this is going?
I asked him if this would cause people with the default maps to not be able to join, see where this is going?

If that would in fact stop people with the default maps from joining the server, I'm not going to implement it. I made that clear in the OP and again when I asked him if it would. Sorry for my ignorance towards the situation, but that's what questions are for, which I did in fact ask.


I had no intention of being offensive in my post. Sorry if it came off that way.
It's okay :P I do that all the time myself so I can easily understand.

It is slightly hard to not be offended when being related to that "Banzai Banshee Server" guy, though. :/

Is there anything at all you could suggest for the mod, by the way? I'm still looking for things to do with the vehicles. I can't really think of much when it comes to them. Maybe they're fine.


No tanks or 'shees and no Ghosts except for on Infinity and Sidewinder. The vehicles are too domineering on maps that don't have paths for those on foot.

  • 12.02.2011 1:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx
I am extremely thankful for your input. Most of this I'm definitely going to use.

Warthogs: Completely agreed.

Banshee:

1. Oddly enough, while everything in this mod doing with explosions has been to reduce their effects, I agree with you on the banshee. Seeing as though grenades are going to be much... rarer than normal Halo, you'll need an effective tool against warthogs.

2. Perfect way to balance the power given to the banshee.

3. Due to popular demand I'm not relieving the PR/banshee from its stunning effects. It's safe

Scorpion: Even though my gametype I'll recommend for us with this mod won't have scorpions, it does make sense to mod them if people want them.

I think Scorpions should still be around as a banshee killer. While with the adjustments we've talked about to the banshee would make it easier for foot soldiers to kill, I think they still need something to take them down. The weak point, as always, to the scorpion is the open latch. A Pistol or a Sniper are its weakness. :P (Another thing, will joiners with default maps see the slowing of the scorpion properly? I imagine it might seem like it's going the same speed, but rubberbanding slightly.)

Ghost: Completely agreed, but will joiners without the mods be able to see the difference in firing speed?

Shotgun: The shotgun on Halo: Combat Evolved is already seen as having too far of a distance :/

Sniper: Sniper contrails wouldn't appear longer for players without the mods so it wouldn't really make a difference.


But what I'm saying is you would need the mod to play if you used the collision tags, meaning you could mod whatever you want.

  • 12.02.2011 3:41 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

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Posted by: Btcc22
No tanks or 'shees and no Ghosts except for on Infinity and Sidewinder. The vehicles are too domineering on maps that don't have paths for those on foot.
I'm going to mod everything I can to balance it as much as I can, but the gametype I'm going to suggest with it is not going to have shees or tanks. :P

Posted by: Tempus Irae
But what I'm saying is you would need the mod to play if you used the collision tags, meaning you could mod whatever you want.
Not using the collision tags anymore. Like I said, if it stops people with the default maps from joining I'm not going to use it.

[Edited on 12.02.2011 10:06 AM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 9:33 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

I've decided on a list of maps I'm going to be working on for this mod. Obviously I'm not going to be using all (i.e. Chiron...) for the mod. Here's the list:

Damnation, Rat Race, Chill Out, Blood Gulch, Sidewinder, Derelict, Danger Canyon, and Hang 'Em High

I chose these due to the focus of the mod being on 4v4/5v5 game play. If at some point people want me to do one for the larger/smaller maps game (i.e. Wizard/Battle Creek for 1v1s) I will. Just after I finish these.

[Edited on 12.26.2011 3:07 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 4:34 PM PDT

Constantly awesome (60% of the time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

Dr Syx, Happy holidays my good sir.
The little Halo 1 Pc Community, and the smaller Halo 1 Pc modder community will never die with people like you :)
Keep up the good work bud :)

  • 12.28.2011 11:54 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: mstrchief117
Dr Syx, Happy holidays my good sir.
The little Halo 1 Pc Community, and the smaller Halo 1 Pc modder community will never die with people like you :)
Keep up the good work bud :)
Thank you! Happy holidays to you as well!

  • 12.28.2011 11:59 AM PDT