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Subject: ODST's or Spartan's? Rivalry in & out of the Halo unive...
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This (and THIS) was for Reach...and/or Harvest

I'm seeing this more and more in members post's and their general attitude and preference towards one or 'tother, which eerily mirrors the in universe conflict.

You should well know the Helljumpers from the 105th and Halsey's test tube titans don't get along. One side being the best of the best in coventional military structure. The ODST's having earned their titles with blood/sweat/more blood, while the Spartans being selected at birth and molded and engineered into the ultimate warrior, perfected by the aid of technology.

The lofty heights of the Spartan myth, no doubt attained through cunning UNSC propaganda and ONI folklore, and fed by the spoonfull to the gaping mouths of the willing populace.

Tempered with the grit and determination, the spilt blood and the battle scars, the broken bond of the fallen brother's of ODST'S. Hard earned, hard lived, and hard fought, fighting tooth and nail in the monolithic shadow of ONI's chosen few.

As it stands the bitterness and jealousy of the ODST's is well founded, misplaced though it may be, as most would be sympathetic to their plight.

"Folks need Heroe's cheif, give 'em hope."

Halsey's Spartan's the proverbial superweapons, the tip of the galactic spear, and zenith of military prowess. Time spent is time bought, the children of Reach, emotionally stunted though they may be the same cannot be said for their physical forms.

A Demi-god like silhouette paired with the mind of a genius, a near perfect example of 'humanity'. The boy's and girl's of Reach 'live' training, breathe tactics and stratagem, and sleep on a bed of knowledge. They grow under the sun of military absolutism, and indoctronisation, never lowering their guard in a fight or otherwise.

Field tested, they swell and coalesce in the heat of battle how can anything 'natural' truly compete? The goal of the 'experiment' to create hero's, now achieved. The cutting edge weaponry employed by the Spartan's, gifted to them, by their makers, effiently weilded, an extension of their bodies, literally.

The Hero's of humanity, are they in a position to represent humanity if they are devoid of it? The Spartan's general disregard for the ODST's is only equaled by their yearning for battle and their inability to avoid or walk away from a fight.

They are disparate from humanity yet also perhaps the only ones who are in a perfect position to defend it, for it but not of it, protectors from afar.

So Seven7h column, what say you?
Where does your allegiance truly lie?
(I kind of got carried away, I do apologise and suggest you wear suitable head protection for the proverbial wall of text you may run into. Thanks for reading, really.)

  • 12.01.2011 7:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

It is pretty arrogant and childish that there is even a rivalry (that i am sure the spartans aren't aware of) when you races is on the brink of extinction. The Spartans are naturally superior anyway because of their genetic makeup; we aren't all the same and that is life.

  • 12.01.2011 7:30 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
It is pretty arrogant and childish that there is even a rivalry (that i am sure the spartans aren't aware of) when you races is on the brink of extinction. The Spartans are naturally superior anyway because of their genetic makeup; we aren't all the same and that is life.


This, the only guys who really care about it are ODST's.

The Spartans don't notice, or simply don't give a care :P.

  • 12.01.2011 7:41 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

It's pretty much only an ''off the battlefield'' type of rivalry. On the ground, in the middle of the suck, they fight and work together like few other joint units can.

But then, you could perfectly argue who has more balls. ODST's love to take on the crazy and difficult missions that they are presented with. The Spartan's just do them because it's what they are used to. You have to give it to the ODST's, though. Just the best of the best of what humanity can offer, but they're still only humans and they love to take the hard tasks.

  • 12.01.2011 2:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: HipiO7
It's pretty much only an ''off the battlefield'' type of rivalry. On the ground, in the middle of the suck, they fight and work together like few other joint units can.

But then, you could perfectly argue who has more balls. ODST's love to take on the crazy and difficult missions that they are presented with. The Spartan's just do them because it's what they are used to.


Only because they feel like they have something to prove. That was evident during the entire novel of "The Flood".

  • 12.01.2011 2:03 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: grey101
Posted by: HipiO7
It's pretty much only an ''off the battlefield'' type of rivalry. On the ground, in the middle of the suck, they fight and work together like few other joint units can.

But then, you could perfectly argue who has more balls. ODST's love to take on the crazy and difficult missions that they are presented with. The Spartan's just do them because it's what they are used to.


Only because they feel like they have something to prove. That was evident during the entire novel of "The Flood".


It's understandable. The ODST's have a long history and tradition for they have done. Nobody likes to see someone else become better than them like the Spartans did.

And in The Flood, that I can truly remember of, it was Major Silva the one that had the problem with the Spartans and had a that need to prove what the ODST's were truly capable of. The others had their innocent comments and such, but nothing on the level of Silva's hate.

  • 12.01.2011 2:08 PM PDT
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This (and THIS) was for Reach...and/or Harvest

Yes, of course it's only a minor issue, the Spartan's in general are fairly nonchalant towards the ODST's anyway.

Although there is the infamous gym brawl between John and a squad of troopers, I'm sure If you are unaware, of what the outcome was.

  • 12.01.2011 6:26 PM PDT
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S-IIs don't really care. If anything, they honor ODSTs as very brave soldiers, I mean Cal sacrificed herself to save a back-up sniper ODST. The only time a S-II showed a little contempt for an ODST was after Silva smack-talked the S-II program when talking to John. But that contempt wasn't at the ODSTs as a whole, but rather that individual, and even then they set that aside and worked on the mission. Mckay seemed to treat Master Chief with high respect though.

  • 12.01.2011 6:44 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
S-IIs don't really care. If anything, they honor ODSTs as very brave soldiers, I mean Cal sacrificed herself to save a back-up sniper ODST. The only time a S-II showed a little contempt for an ODST was after Silva smack-talked the S-II program when talking to John. But that contempt wasn't at the ODSTs as a whole, but rather that individual, and even then they set that aside and worked on the mission. Mckay seemed to treat Master Chief with high respect though.


His problem was entirely from the fact men under his command tried taking on Master Chief while underestimating him and got killed/beat the hell up.

  • 12.01.2011 7:02 PM PDT

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Well, it's actually little-known, but one of the things that helped propagate the rivalry was John 117 himself.

Very soon after his physical augmentations, a squad of ODST's from the 105th were payed to take him to a boxing ring to try and beat him up. John, unpracticed with his new strength, ended up killing all but one of them who was crippled for the rest of his life. All ODST's know of this event and hold it against the spartans.

  • 12.10.2011 12:42 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: grey101
It is pretty arrogant and childish that there is even a rivalry (that i am sure the spartans aren't aware of) when you races is on the brink of extinction. The Spartans are naturally superior anyway because of their genetic makeup; we aren't all the same and that is life.


This, the only guys who really care about it are ODST's.

The Spartans don't notice, or simply don't give a care :P.

The lads have it here.

  • 12.10.2011 4:22 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

"Tube Titans" made me lol.

Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor.

ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better.

  • 12.10.2011 5:15 AM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free



The ODST's having earned their titles with blood/sweat/more blood, while the Spartans...
Whilst nothing. They earned all that and more. Just because they had better equipment, training and opportunity does not lessen their achievements.


The lofty heights of the Spartan myth, no doubt attained through cunning UNSC propaganda and ONI folklore, and fed by the spoonfull to the gaping mouths of the willing populace.


Myth based on the best operational record of any (Army, Navy, NavSpeWar, Oni et al) unit. You're holding good propaganda against them?


Tempered with the grit and determination, the spilt blood and the battle scars, the broken bond of the fallen brother's of ODST'S. Hard earned, hard lived, and hard fought, fighting tooth and nail in the monolithic shadow of ONI's chosen few.

As it stands the bitterness and jealousy of the ODST's is well founded, misplaced though it may be, as most would be sympathetic to their plight.


You imply the Spartans haven't lost anything. Haven't come back half dead from missions, lost good friends, allies, or even a part of themselves, during a lifetime fighting?

Yes they have never lost a ground engagement, but Spartans DO die, whether Oni wants you to believe it or not. Sam. James. Will. Linda (well...). I could go on. Isaac, Vinh, Li, Grace, Joshua, the 4 who died outright falling to Reach.

Don't think the Spartans have had it easy. Also;

"the monolithic shadow of ONI's chosen few"

All stand together under the shadow of the Covenant.



The Hero's of humanity, are they in a position to represent humanity if they are devoid of it? The Spartan's general disregard for the ODST's is only equaled by their yearning for battle and their inability to avoid or walk away from a fight.


They don't claim to represent Humanity, they are the vanguard of all that remains and fight to the bitter end to save them and lose their own humanity to protect the masses. A noble sacrifice, some would say.

There is no Spartan disregard for ODSTs. The helljumpers alone have a chip on their shoulders, not all of the ODSTs, and this is a result of their arrogance, their machismo, and their aggressive mentality. All virtues for those in the near suicidal division that is the Helljumpers, but fit to represent humanity? I'm not so sure.

"inability to avoid or walk away from a fight" Where did you pull that from? Admittedly Spartans don't give an inch in a fight and only retreat tactically, and for short times at that.

But they are the epitome of battlefield tactics, strategic planning, intelligence, and skill. And they would not throw their lives away unless ordered to.

You seem to forget that Spartans also have an immense capacity for stealth and guerrilla warfare - reread FoR, for example, especially the Cote de Azur section, or some of the insurrection missions (colonel watts' capture). I think you'll find they are reserved, tactical and logical, and don't pick a fight with everyone they see.




I'm assuming your allegiance lies with the Helljumpers, because biased and incorrect OP is... well, you know the rest.

  • 12.10.2011 6:56 AM PDT

Co Leader of clan BSC

Hey in my oppinion both UNSC fighters both go through alot. ODST: Falling into the battlefield. Spartan: Being kidnapped at Childhood and trained for years. Both sides are equally arguable. The ODST's think they have the great stuff and the training, they almost think they are all that. As i played ODST it seemed that the more expierience, the more you are very ignorant. As of the spartans, they are in a rivalry because all of them are great. But the rivalry ends when they find out noble 6 and Master Chief Have the Hyper lethal. So i have to go with the ODST because all of them have the guts and glory, but the rivalry is very arguable. So the ODST know they are all the same except for rank and Experience. So ODST is who i side with.

  • 12.10.2011 7:48 PM PDT
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This (and THIS) was for Reach...and/or Harvest

Great post Dutchman, very articulate. I appreciate dissection.

I gave a more agressive approach to the ODST's defence merely because I believe that they get the short end of the proverbial stick, and are much more underepresented then the much revered spartan's, in and out of the universe, as it were.

May I also assume your preference is for the spartan's no doubt? I actually prefer the spartan's myself, strictly due to their increased exposure in the games and the fiction, so I know much more about them, and understand them as a result.
As I see it the ODST's are yet to be fleshed out enough, but I await the day when they are. ODST 2 anyone? etc.

"But you took that end, and you - well, you took it. And that's - Well, I guess that's somethin'."
(As for the stick that was given, couldn't resist)

  • 12.10.2011 7:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
"Tube Titans" made me lol.

Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor.

ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better.


You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.

  • 12.11.2011 12:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: Xerzaph

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
"Tube Titans" made me lol.

Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor.

ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better.


You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.


Equal or more training? ODSTs are not trained for 8 years straight. S-IIs are also trained HARDER in that 8 years. They actually train ON ODSTs some of the time. Arbiter's don't volunteer, they are high-ranking Elites trying to earn back honor with high-risk, high-importance, suicide missions. And as for the suit part, ask the ODSTs that fought 14-year old Master Chief, they in no way rivaled him.

  • 12.11.2011 10:23 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Xerzaph

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
"Tube Titans" made me lol.

Anyway, the SPARTANS are obviously better because they've been training since they were 6, have been augmented, and have MJOLNIR armor.

ODSTs don't have the fancy armor or augmentations. However, I like the ODSTs more. They are the unsung heroes. In the war, they have pulled a lot of weight and, like I said before, they don't have the armor or the augmentations or even the extensive training. If you look at it from that perspective, who knows? Maybe the ODSTs are better.


You don't give the ODST's enough credit. Each one likely did equal or more training then a Spartan, unfortunately, all ODST's are volunteers, because their job is suicidal, they're basically the Arbiters of the UNSC. If a spartan wasn't in their suit, an ODST may well rival them.

I'm on the side of the ODSTs, but your taking it too far. Equal or more training? I doubt the ODST volunteers decided to train when they were 6. And, that training, makes U.S. Ranger school look like a picnic. Master Chief took down 3 veterans ODSTs when he was a teenager without armor. So, armor doesn't matter either. But, like I said, I'm on the side of the ODSTs. Despite what I stated above, they are great soldiers and deserve a lot of credit.

  • 12.11.2011 10:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: superiorarsenal

Equal or more training? ODSTs are not trained for 8 years straight. S-IIs are also trained HARDER in that 8 years. They actually train ON ODSTs some of the time. Arbiter's don't volunteer, they are high-ranking Elites trying to earn back honor with high-risk, high-importance, suicide missions. And as for the suit part, ask the ODSTs that fought 14-year old Master Chief, they in no way rivaled him.

Wow! That's not what I meant at all! Forget about the training, I meant field experience, which is obviously more beneficial than simply training. ODST's would in most cases have more field experience than a Spartan. (mainly because Spartans are so young)
As for the arbiter part, I only meant the suicidal mission part. ODST's do what no other troop besides a Spartan could do, that they are volunteers is irrelevant.

As for the suit... Well, I admit defeat, I forgot about that particular situation, and, I thought I might add, I couldn't ask them if I wanted to, they're all dead! ^_^ well played sir. *salutes*

[Edited on 12.12.2011 5:22 AM PST]

  • 12.12.2011 5:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

How would any ODST have more "field experience" when the spartans have been doing ops in their teens?

  • 12.12.2011 5:30 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101
How would any ODST have more "field experience" when the spartans have been doing ops in their teens?

They wouldn't. Not compared with S-IIs anyway.

  • 12.12.2011 5:37 AM PDT

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ODST's would have years of experience working their way up the ranks as marines, along with further experience as ODST's. ODST's are either prodigy's, or men who have been flawless marines for a very long time. As I said, Spartans are young.

  • 12.12.2011 6:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

You need to read "The Fall of Reach".

  • 12.12.2011 6:27 AM PDT

There's no 'rivalry' between them, there was one ODST who held a grudge and he just happened to be in charge during one of the books.

All of this rivalry nonsense is just something the less involved script writers used as dialogue filler in things like Legends and Halo Wars.

  • 12.12.2011 6:34 AM PDT

my gamertag
Not a spartan
not a elite
ODST!!!!!!!!!

yeah, the rivalry is little, and they got along when -blam!- hit the fan too, but really most don't care.

  • 12.12.2011 1:52 PM PDT

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