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Subject: Question about Energy Shields


Posted by: SteroidKloud
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SteroidKloud
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SteroidKloud
Hmmmm?

So if shields don't activate unless something travelling at a certain velocity hits it. Then why doesn't it do that when Master chief tries to grab objects and walk? If the shields flare up from that, then why does it not flare up for a knife but still flare up for a bullet. Someone needs to explain this to me.


The shields are weaker in some spots (feet and hands) and stronger in others (torso). They can be adjusted to grab things:a bullet is faster than a knife but the knife has more force. That is what i gleamed from others talking about this.


That still isn't a proper explanation. A bullet has more force than anyone using a knife will. Even a Spartan. A Spartan couldn't put a hole in metal with a knife, but a bullet can.


Your getting your physics messed up.

And a spartan would,could,and has put a dent in metal with fists alone.


That is because it is thin metal. If we are talking about a solid block of metal 10 meters in length, width and height. the bullet would make a notable effect while the knife will most likely snap or just put a scrape in it.

Physics messed up?


I doubt a bullet, not including the .85 cal rounds the sniper uses or a tank shell, would be able to penetrate over 30 feet of metal. Even the sniper rounds and tank shell are pushing it, depending on the strength of the metal. The velocity required to penetrate 10 meters of metal would be, I assume, astronomical.

  • 12.01.2011 2:48 PM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!

Posted by: MrPinkiller1

I doubt a bullet, not including the .85 cal rounds the sniper uses or a tank shell, would be able to penetrate over 30 feet of metal. Even the sniper rounds and tank shell are pushing it, depending on the strength of the metal. The velocity required to penetrate 10 meters of metal would be, I assume, astronomical.


Not through the entire thing, even half a centimetre would suffice. Something a knife cannot do.

  • 12.01.2011 2:56 PM PDT

An average human swinging a metal baseball bat has roughly the same amount of force as a revolver pistol (not sure what caliber). SPARTANs+Knife=FUBAR.

  • 12.01.2011 3:03 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: jross1993
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: jross1993
He didn't have shields.[/quote]
....?

I'm serious. How/why did you come to this conclusion? [/quote]

Ripa's armor is like the stealth elites who came to his aid and are found in Halo CE. Their armor has highly advanced active camo modules, at the cost of no shielding.[/quote]
Source?


The game and since when does something you can clearly see need a source?


The cinimatics show atleast twice that he doesn't have energy shielding but the alloy on his armor is bullet proof. He is an Arbiter that title requires him to work with less and die.

Egh. Jeeez you're a dick man. I'm so glad I kept that script that whateverhisname made that blocks your posts.

Good day.


I am not a detective but thanks for the compliment.

And if you really need a script to block somebody's post on an internet forum then you are pathetic.That would explain why you don't know simple common knowledge things.

  • 12.01.2011 3:11 PM PDT


Posted by: abelsinh
As an interesting fact, in The Fall of Reach, Master Chief has to turn off the shield parts for the hands and feets, in order to grab things and walk.


That explains why he's able to hold weapons, grenades, and the index, and walk in combat zones then, huh?

[Edited on 12.01.2011 3:14 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 3:13 PM PDT
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Steam - slamt4stic
Live - SLAMt4stic


Posted by: abelsinh
As an interesting fact, in The Fall of Reach, Master Chief has to turn off the shield parts for the hands and feets, in order to grab things and walk.

In the games, Master Chief can get into vehicles with no problems at all...


Or it just automatically "does" it.

  • 12.01.2011 3:14 PM PDT

-The full bottle is a silent bottle.

interestingly enough, there was a similar discussion on 343 forums over putting a knife into Halo 4 about the amount of force involved.
Forerunner shields found on the Onyx sentinels were rader/speed engaged; it only popped up if the object was moving fast enough. However, it was also supposed to be much stronger. (and opaque gold :) )
SPARTAN shields, on the other hand, are constantly active. This did make running/gripping things harder, so MC left them on a low power state for most of the time, except for special circumstances like when trying to cross a minefield.
personally, I think that a knife could probably penetrate the shields and armor if wielded by a Spartan, but im not esp. inclined to give it serious, time-consuming though, so I'm guessing on whim here. I would say that the shields can deflect bullets easier, though, b/c bullets are easier to deflect in that the sense that once the energy is absorbed, it's gone and the bullet will travel differently. On the other hand, a knife blow will have a constant supply of energy from the user's hand behind it that gives it a constant attack that lasts longer that a bullet, possibly draining the basic Spartan shields.

  • 12.01.2011 3:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The problem is all of you are assuming the shield strong is at a certain level of strength through the armor at all times.

  • 12.01.2011 3:48 PM PDT
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Pfhor new members:
Hello, I am *****. I am a very active Bungie.net member and If you do not understand or need help with something with Bungie.net you can message me. I will reply with a correct and accuate answer. Welcome to the Seventh Column Army.


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The elite energy shields are based off of Forerunner technology, and we know that at least some Forerunner energy shields only activated if the incoming projectile had sufficient velocity (Ghosts of Onyx). It is possible that the knife simply wasn't traveling fast enough to activate the shields.
I had the same question that the OP had wandering in my head, and this helps explain it alot. Thank you CTN.

  • 12.01.2011 3:55 PM PDT
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I'm not like the people at the Reach Forum, I swear. Also, I don't just play Halo: Reach anymore.

I made this account a couple weeks after getting Halo: Reach. I never ever played a halo game before, so I thought this would be a good username. I was wrong, so hoplessly wrong, and I wish I could change it. But I must push on...

FOR NARNIAAAAAAAAA!

Ok, now I have a question. Someone before said that Covenant shields are based off Forerunner technology, and that an incoming projectile has to have a certain amount of velocity to make the shields activate, thus how Emile killed the Elite. But in Halo: Fall of Reach, when the giant Elite and Master Chief where wrestling/fighting over a plasma pistol, Master Chief tried to grab the the Elite. But in the book, it says that 'thier weakened shields slid and crackled one another'. But I don't think Master Chief hand's had the velocity of a bullet. A little later in the book, Master Chief pushed himself at the Elite, and struck it with bost fists, but they slid off the Elite's shield. How does this work? Any insight would be helpful.

TL;4R


Master Chief is not able to grab Elite when not going as fast as a bullet. How is this possible?

  • 12.01.2011 4:00 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: JustAReachPlaya
Ok, now I have a question. Someone before said that Covenant shields are based off Forerunner technology, and that an incoming projectile has to have a certain amount of velocity to make the shields activate, thus how Emile killed the Elite. But in Halo: Fall of Reach, when the giant Elite and Master Chief where wrestling/fighting over a plasma pistol, Master Chief tried to grab the the Elite. But in the book, it says that 'thier weakened shields slid and crackled one another'. But I don't think Master Chief hand's had the velocity of a bullet. A little later in the book, Master Chief pushed himself at the Elite, and struck it with bost fists, but they slid off the Elite's shield. How does this work? Any insight would be helpful.

TL;4R


Master Chief is not able to grab Elite when not going as fast as a bullet. How is this possible?


Only Onyx Sentinel shields have been shown to do the whole "activate when fast" mechanism, besides, Covenant tech is not exactly like Forerunner technology. So for all matters and intents, Elite shields must be equal to Spartans' save for the strength.

  • 12.01.2011 4:06 PM PDT

Wait a minute; we are wondering how a knife, specifically a kukri knife, can penetrate the shields of an elite. What we should be wondering is how, in multiplayer, the assassinations both break the shield and penetrate high-grade Mjolnir armor. Emile uses a Kukri knife. Kukri knives are thicker and more durable than the combat knives the SIIIs use in multiplayer. How can the combat knife penetrate both the shields (which are made of pure energy?) and armor? Wouldn't the energy make the knife weaker and unable to penetrate the armor?

  • 12.01.2011 5:11 PM PDT
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Basically the explanation is Game Mechanics. My friend Reaper on Factpile.com did some impressive calculations for MJOLNIR Mark V and VI armor shield strength based upon the 50mm event in Halo:TFoR. Accounted for the Velocity of the round, mass of round, speed of the aircraft, and explosives in the round. essentially it comes out to around 30MJ.
30MJ!? Ridiculous you might be thinking. But let's look at cotradictions in canon. The only thing that has dropped his shields have been plasma rounds. Clearly Covenant hand-held weapons do not have MJ range damage, but it not simply the energy of the plasma that has to be taken into effect. Covenant plasma seems to have intense powers in draining EM energy and what not. This, combined with the massive magnetic fields it requires to keep the plasma together in flight would have an enormous impact on energy shielding. This can also be seen in Covenant Ship Shields. It can take dozens or even hundreds of Archer Missiles, or even 1 or 2 MAC rounds to drop a Covenant Ship's shields. Both of those can single-handedly gut UNSC warships. But yet plasma torpedeos, that can take multiple to do the same levels of damage to a UNSC warship, can down a Covenant ship's shields in 1 or 2 hits. This can be explained the same way. The EM effects combined with the massive magnetic fields holding the plasma together very rapidly drains energy shielding.

Anyways, the knife is basically chopped up to game mechanics. Even with game shields, your shields alone can survive close to 1MJ(Frag Grenade explosion). Then you have to penetrate the ultra-dense alloy armor of MJOLNIR, so....

  • 12.01.2011 6:31 PM PDT

Sigh, doesn't factpile and spacebattles have a tendency of bias/misinformation?

  • 12.01.2011 7:05 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Anyone consider that the knife a Spartan III who knew they would come in contact with Elites and possessed highly customized gear might of somehow treated the knife to by pass shielding?

  • 12.01.2011 7:15 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Sigh, doesn't factpile and spacebattles have a tendency of bias/misinformation?



Yeah, also... I wouldn't use that one line from FoR like gospel, as the shields are shown to be much weaker several other times later on.

  • 12.01.2011 7:16 PM PDT
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:)

Posted by: grey101
I am not a detective but thanks for the compliment.

And if you really need a script to block somebody's post on an internet forum then you are pathetic.That would explain why you don't know simple common knowledge things.

No, no, no. My girlfriend was here with me and wrote that to get a reaction haha. When you didn't reply we just left it. She finds the forums boring, but let me post before going out.

You're one of the few who knows a lot about the Halo universe. I know the basics, but it seems you know the details. As someone who would like to know the details, I find your posts... enlightening.

No offence intended. (:

To the above conversation. Bullets exert a very low amount of force. I did some calculations earlier and the force from a single round fired from an AK-47 after a single second was like 5N. (AK-47 because it fires the same/similar round as the AR in Reach, if I'm not mistaken)

But I digress. It's entirely possible that a Spartan wielding a knife will be able to exert more force than a bullet (Large rounds excluded of course), explaining why the knife is able to go through the armour and kill the occupant whereas a single bullet can't.

I hope that makes sesne. It's getting late here haha

  • 12.01.2011 7:53 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The elite energy shields are based off of Forerunner technology, and we know that at least some Forerunner energy shields only activated if the incoming projectile had sufficient velocity (Ghosts of Onyx). It is possible that the knife simply wasn't traveling fast enough to activate the shields.

  • 12.01.2011 8:05 PM PDT


Posted by: jross1993
Posted by: grey101
I am not a detective but thanks for the compliment.

And if you really need a script to block somebody's post on an internet forum then you are pathetic.That would explain why you don't know simple common knowledge things.

No, no, no. My girlfriend was here with me and wrote that to get a reaction haha. When you didn't reply we just left it. She finds the forums boring, but let me post before going out.

You're one of the few who knows a lot about the Halo universe. I know the basics, but it seems you know the details. As someone who would like to know the details, I find your posts... enlightening.

No offence intended. (:

To the above conversation. Bullets exert a very low amount of force. I did some calculations earlier and the force from a single round fired from an AK-47 after a single second was like 5N. (AK-47 because it fires the same/similar round as the AR in Reach, if I'm not mistaken)

But I digress. It's entirely possible that a Spartan wielding a knife will be able to exert more force than a bullet (Large rounds excluded of course), explaining why the knife is able to go through the armour and kill the occupant whereas a single bullet can't.

I hope that makes sesne. It's getting late here haha


No, the MA37 (Assault Rifle in Reach) fires the 7.62x51mm round and the AK-47 fires the 7.62x39mm round. The 7.62x51mm round is used in the M14, M110, and a few others. The two different rounds may look similar but they both act completely different from one another and have different "force" outputs. But thats besides the point. I just have a hard time believing that a knife (even with a spartan wielding it) could punch through energy shields, AND punch through some of the hardest metals known to man in ONE lunge. Who knows, maybe Spartans ARE that strong, but I doubt the knife could penetrate all that without breaking or cracking or whatever.

[Edited on 12.01.2011 11:47 PM PST]

  • 12.01.2011 11:45 PM PDT
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I am happy to just chalk it up to the the shields only activating for high velocity objects and being a certain range out, which is why shotguns are insta kills at very close range.

  • 12.02.2011 12:53 AM PDT
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:)


Posted by: FISHYburned
No, the MA37 (Assault Rifle in Reach) fires the 7.62x51mm round and the AK-47 fires the 7.62x39mm round. The 7.62x51mm round is used in the M14, M110, and a few others.

Ahh! My bad! I was going by memory. I can't imagine there would be a substantial amount of difference anyway.

But thats besides the point. I just have a hard time believing that a knife (even with a spartan wielding it) could punch through energy shields, AND punch through some of the hardest metals known to man in ONE lunge. Who knows, maybe Spartans ARE that strong, but I doubt the knife could penetrate all that without breaking or cracking or whatever.
Does anyone actually know what the knives are made of?

  • 12.02.2011 1:41 AM PDT




Posted by: jross1993

Does anyone actually know what the knives are made of?


The knives literally HAVE to be made of Titanium or some sort of alloy that is stronger than normal Titanium, cause if it's just a regular steel knife, it's going to break/bend when it comes in contact with the harder metals.

  • 12.02.2011 4:39 AM PDT

In Ghosts of Onyx is is proven that slower moving projectiles (such as a rock or knife in this case) can penetrate forerunner shields.


[Edited on 12.02.2011 4:50 AM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 4:49 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: jross1993
Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The elite energy shields are based off of Forerunner technology, and we know that at least some Forerunner energy shields only activated if the incoming projectile had sufficient velocity (Ghosts of Onyx). It is possible that the knife simply wasn't traveling fast enough to activate the shields.

This is correct.

It's also the reason why Forge was able to stab the Arbiter in Halo Wars.

But it's actually not, which is why when Elites are meleed their shields still activate.

And Mjolnir shields are always active,they're based on the Elite's shielding.

  • 12.02.2011 5:21 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: jross1993
Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The elite energy shields are based off of Forerunner technology, and we know that at least some Forerunner energy shields only activated if the incoming projectile had sufficient velocity (Ghosts of Onyx). It is possible that the knife simply wasn't traveling fast enough to activate the shields.

This is correct.

It's also the reason why Forge was able to stab the Arbiter in Halo Wars.

But it's actually not, which is why when Elites are meleed their shields still activate.

And Mjolnir shields are always active,they're based on the Elite's shielding.


They are based off jackal shielding.

This entire thread is based off misinformation.

  • 12.02.2011 5:24 AM PDT

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