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Subject: Would Bungie make another Marathon game?

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Quoting Recon, only because his name is relevant to this thread.

Anyways.
Imagine a painting of a horse, a marvellous white stallion. This stallion happens to be lying in a crumpled heap on the ground, dead. And Bungie employees are standing around it in a semicircle, beating the horse with various blunt objects. The painting is titled "Marathon 4".
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: DefiniteInfinity
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: DefiniteInfinity
But.. didn't the universe explode in Marathon Infinity?

It closed. Like an old bait and tackle shop after the river was dammed.
Ah. So it imploded. Gotcha. Only question then... who wrote the epilogue screen if the universe had been "closed"?

I believe that it was an old friend.

I also believe that what he called us (the Player Character) was very interesting. Almost prophetic.




*twitch*
I've been saying this for months and nobody has figured it out for themselves until now. >__________>
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: Hylebos
I wonder if Bungie purposefully named their next game series after the final line of Marathon Infinity.

I know who you are. You are Destiny.

But yeah, their next game is definitely going to be original.
It has been a while since I have beaten Infinity and saw the ending screen. Never even realized that Destiny was there right under our noses the whole time.


[Edited on 12.02.2011 7:03 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 7:02 PM PDT
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  • 12.02.2011 7:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
Apparently I haven't been listening to you. Haven't really been thinking much about it until this thread brought it to my attention. But like I said in my edit, Bungie likes referencing their old games in new ones, I would be surprised not to see any Marathon nods in their new game. The universes definitely won't be connected.

Edit: plus it's been quite some time since I beat Infinity, I can't remember the ending screen at the drop of a hat, this jogged my memory.

[Edited on 12.02.2011 7:07 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 7:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I wonder if we'll be seeing more Marathon references than homages to Halo in the new IP out of fear of lawsuits from Microsoft.
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: cortana 5
Apparently I haven't been listening to you. Haven't really been thinking much about it until this thread brought it to my attention. But like I said in my edit, Bungie likes referencing their old games in new ones, I would be surprised not to see any Marathon nods in their new game. The universes definitely won't be connected.

Edit: plus it's been quite some time since I beat Infinity, I can't remember the ending screen at the drop of a hat, this jogged my memory.

  • 12.02.2011 7:08 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
I wonder if we'll be seeing more Marathon references than homages to Halo in the new IP out of fear of lawsuits from Microsoft.
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: cortana 5
Apparently I haven't been listening to you. Haven't really been thinking much about it until this thread brought it to my attention. But like I said in my edit, Bungie likes referencing their old games in new ones, I would be surprised not to see any Marathon nods in their new game. The universes definitely won't be connected.

Edit: plus it's been quite some time since I beat Infinity, I can't remember the ending screen at the drop of a hat, this jogged my memory.


I'm sure Bungie will add some References into their new game. I mean, whats a Bungie game without references to their other Awesome games.

  • 12.02.2011 7:17 PM PDT

"You dead yet? No? You will be!"

"How you like them pears? Guess what I mean by pears."

"I'm gonna rip off his partridge and kick him in the pear tree!"

A small possibility. Halo was originally designed to be a sequel to Marathon Infinity, until Microsoft bought it.

  • 12.02.2011 7:42 PM PDT

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tenn' Ambar-metta!

Nah, I think it's time to move on to something new.

  • 12.02.2011 7:49 PM PDT

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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

Since Marathon, Bungie has revolved around the three swords.

Cortana had a great theory about it in the Universe forum. Sadly the thread has been archived now.

The idea is that Marathon, Halo and Destiny are a part of the Charlemagne trilogy, in a way.

The AIs are your swords.

Marathon has the sword, Dur[a]ndal.
Halo has the sword, C[o]rtana.
Cortana 5 and I believe Destiny will have the AI/sword, Joyeuse (perhaps renamed to something extremely similar, like the English translation "Joyful" or "Joyous").

I don't think they will necessarily make another Marathon, much like how I'm sure they'll never make another Halo, but I am definitely sure that all 3 universes have references to eachother and connections for a very, very good reason:

You, the player. Bungie's referenced this idea in Marathon frequently, and has done so much more subliminally in Halo, but the core idea is that you are every single Hero reborn at a time when the universe needs you most. The concept of dying and being able to start again is canonical in that you never die, you are simply reborn into that exact moment in time to persevere and triumph. At the end of Marathon and Halo, when your mission is complete, you rest. You are to be reborn again into the guise of the next Hero.

In Destiny, I am positive that the exact same philosophy will apply. I'm eagerly anticipating their story.

For further proof of the sword theory, have a look at the Bungie crest in the top left. Also, every newbie at Bungie were recently given wooden swords, and Marty has a sword in his recording studio (as seen in the latest ViDoc).

[Edited on 12.02.2011 8:04 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 8:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: SonicJohn
So... SonicJohn.. when were you two planning to tell the rest of us?

On a serious note, that's a very interesting observation/examination. To be honest, it's incredibly fascinating, and I'm surprised nobody has even begun to get anywhere near a theory of this sort or of this caliber. To have such an obscure reference, mixed within history of such a well-known historical figure is absolutely genius. And you're discovery of it rivals that genius, if not matches it.

As for the theory itself, I think it's almost undoubtedly (at least somewhat) true. The "coincidence" of the two (already occurred) likenesses of the two AI's and the two swords is so absolute that it's almost foolish to say that the final iteration will not be implemented in any way.

I'm wondering, however, if there is any further relevance to the relation to the swords. Perhaps within the story of the swords themselves that relates specifically to the AI; maybe showing us more than we've ever known about them or making relations and connections to character traits we've already known (and simply legitimizing the reference even further). There's always the possibility that it's simply a blind historical reference for reference-sake, but it's just an idea.

Also, do you happen to have a link to an article specifically about the swords? Because I can't seem to find a part of that article on Charlemagne himself about the swords.*

*Maybe I'm just being silly and you can point me in the right direction within that article.

[Edited on 12.02.2011 8:13 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 8:03 PM PDT

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Posted by: SonicJohn


I too followed and believe as you and Cortana do. I wanted my original gamertag to Charlemagne(taken). This is one of the reasons that I like Bungie. The skills shown in the storytelling department are top notch and the side stories and references are enough to literally think anything is possible. I don't think Marathon will continue but I'm more than confident the new IP will be more than what most expect.

  • 12.02.2011 8:06 PM PDT

I'm awesome...No seriously I am.

At least I know that a large part of the Community Doesn't think that Bungie will make another Marathon Game.

[Edited on 12.02.2011 8:09 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 8:08 PM PDT

Who the hell do you think I am?

I don't think that they would...

  • 12.02.2011 8:18 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I'm looking for an occasion to put up a V2. Perhaps if/when an ARG comes out, I'll track it with Bungie Forumla v2.
Posted by: SonicJohn
Since Marathon, Bungie has revolved around the three swords.

Cortana had a great theory about it in the Universe forum. Sadly the thread has been archived now.

  • 12.02.2011 8:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: cortana 5
I'm looking for an occasion to put up a V2. Perhaps if/when an ARG comes out, I'll track it with Bungie Forumla v2.
Posted by: SonicJohn
Since Marathon, Bungie has revolved around the three swords.

Cortana had a great theory about it in the Universe forum. Sadly the thread has been archived now.
You guys really should make another thread about it once there's info on Destiny. Even a slight announcement or a hint to its existence. It deserves more (and newer) discussion than it's gotten.

  • 12.02.2011 8:19 PM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."


Posted by: cortana 5
I wonder if we'll be seeing more Marathon references than homages to Halo in the new IP out of fear of lawsuits from Microsoft.
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: cortana 5
Apparently I haven't been listening to you. Haven't really been thinking much about it until this thread brought it to my attention. But like I said in my edit, Bungie likes referencing their old games in new ones, I would be surprised not to see any Marathon nods in their new game. The universes definitely won't be connected.

Edit: plus it's been quite some time since I beat Infinity, I can't remember the ending screen at the drop of a hat, this jogged my memory.


Well, on the one hand (if I remember right), Bungie gets to keep the rights to their new IP. We know that Bungie was fairly big on connecting their games before Halo, which itself started out in the same universe as Marathon. However, they've made it clear that the two unconnected (without even going into date conflicts). It's possible that the reason that all connections with Marathon were dissolved was because Bungie feared losing the rights to the Marathon universe if it was somehow connected to Halo. As such, I'm still holding out a small amount of hope that the Bungieverse will be revisited.

On the other hand, other than Jason Jones, I'm not sure how much anyone at bungie actually knows or cares about the old continuity. Which reminds me...

DAMN YOU MATT SOELL! WHY CAN'T CLEAN AND TELL US WHAT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MARATHON AND THE GREAT DEVOID IS?!

  • 12.02.2011 8:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I talk about Charlemange at the top of the third OP post. Joyeuse us right above it at the bottom of the second post.
Posted by: DefiniteInfinity
Also, do you happen to have a link to an article specifically about the swords? Because I can't seem to find a part of that article on Charlemagne himself about the swords.*

*Maybe I'm just being silly and you can point me in the right direction within that article.

Actually, my theory separates the universes, but ties them together at the same time. Think of Halo and Marathon as spokes on a wheel. They're not the same spoke, but they are connected at the center by Bungie and the historical connection between the swords.
Posted by: homocidalham
Posted by: cortana 5
I wonder if we'll be seeing more Marathon references than homages to Halo in the new IP out of fear of lawsuits from Microsoft.
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: cortana 5
Apparently I haven't been listening to you. Haven't really been thinking much about it until this thread brought it to my attention. But like I said in my edit, Bungie likes referencing their old games in new ones, I would be surprised not to see any Marathon nods in their new game. The universes definitely won't be connected.

Edit: plus it's been quite some time since I beat Infinity, I can't remember the ending screen at the drop of a hat, this jogged my memory.


Well, on the one hand (if I remember right), Bungie gets to keep the rights to their new IP. We know that Bungie was fairly big on connecting their games before Halo, which itself started out in the same universe as Marathon. However, they've made it clear that the two unconnected (without even going into date conflicts). It's possible that the reason that all connections with Marathon were dissolved was because Bungie feared losing the rights to the Marathon universe if it was somehow connected to Halo. As such, I'm still holding out a small amount of hope that the Bungieverse will be revisited.

On the other hand, other than Jason Jones, I'm not sure how much anyone at bungie actually knows or cares about the old continuity. Which reminds me...

DAMN YOU MATT SOELL! WHY CAN'T CLEAN AND TELL US WHAT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MARATHON AND THE GREAT DEVOID IS?!


[Edited on 12.02.2011 8:24 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 8:21 PM PDT

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Posted by: homocidalham
On the other hand, other than Jason Jones, I'm not sure how much anyone at bungie actually knows or cares about the old continuity. Which reminds me...
I'd say quite a few of the Grizzled Ancients are still keeping the whole vision in check. There's still a good, but small, chunk of those guys around from pre-Halo. Marty O'Donnell, Jason Jones and Robt McLees being three pretty key players, off the top of my head.

And Cortana, I'd love to write up a proper V2 at some point with you. I could even make it prettier with videos and images, and such, to illustrate any points that are difficult to convey in text.

  • 12.02.2011 8:26 PM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."


Posted by: cortana 5
Actually, my theory separates the universes, but ties them together at the same time. Think of Halo and Marathon as spokes on a wheel. They're not the same spoke, but they are connected at the center by Bungie and the historical connection between the swords.


I've read the theory (as well as pretty muc heverything on M.B.Org/Story), I loved it, and I fully accept common themes, motifs, and ideas. However, because of a single comment by Matt Soell, we know that Marathon and Myth are causally connected (though, other than a few shaky guesses, we haven't the faintest clue how). PID shares enough common names (and the roles of those names) with Marathon that it's probably on the same timeline. Halo's only concrete connection seems to be the marathon logo, which is likely just a visual nod.

In other words, swords are more like the number 7 or Rampancy: They appear, but they don't seem to form a much larger metaverse. I really love that Bungie does explore coherent (and often quite lofty) ideas, but there is a part of me that really wants more of the actual contingencies of the Bungieverse explored.

  • 12.02.2011 8:49 PM PDT

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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

Some good points. I think I'd like to do a full and comprehensive run-through of Myth, Marathon and Halo (the Bungie games solely, not any other extended media) to see if I can fully compare the core similarities in the universes.

I'd also like to point out that in Bungie's Halo games, we solely know only one time-frame, and that's 2552 and 2553. All other times and dates are largely influenced by Microsoft's writers. So I'd disregard all of those. Marathon is based in 2794, by which time, the Chief is definitely dead. I think the theory holds up further.

I think I'll save this for the V2 thread later.
Posted by: homocidalham

Posted by: cortana 5
Actually, my theory separates the universes, but ties them together at the same time. Think of Halo and Marathon as spokes on a wheel. They're not the same spoke, but they are connected at the center by Bungie and the historical connection between the swords.


I've read the theory (as well as pretty muc heverything on M.B.Org/Story), I loved it, and I fully accept common themes, motifs, and ideas. However, because of a single comment by Matt Soell, we know that Marathon and Myth are causally connected (though, other than a few shaky guesses, we haven't the faintest clue how). PID shares enough common names (and the roles of those names) with Marathon that it's probably on the same timeline. Halo's only concrete connection seems to be the marathon logo, which is likely just a visual nod.

In other words, swords are more like the number 7 or Rampancy: They appear, but they don't seem to form a much larger metaverse. I really love that Bungie does explore coherent (and often quite lofty) ideas, but there is a part of me that really wants more of the actual contingencies of the Bungieverse explored.



Edit: Also, it's worth pointing out that Myth is filled with swords. The little logo on the far right of the Universe banner also adds to this (pretty sure that's a logo of sorts relating to Myth).

[Edited on 12.02.2011 9:07 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 8:59 PM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."


Posted by: SonicJohn
Some good points. I think I'd like to do a full and comprehensive run-through of Myth, Marathon and Halo (the Bungie games solely, not any other extended media) to see if I can fully compare the core similarities in the universes.


Hmm. Comparative analysis? It might be fun to start looking at the Bungie games as presenting some sort of coherent idea as opposed to stuff like debating the security officer's height or stretching coincidences till they start ripping.

Edit: Also, it's worth pointing out that Myth is filled with swords. The little logo on the far right of the Universe banner also adds to this (pretty sure that's a logo of sorts relating to Myth).

Oddly enough, this is something I was thinking about while reading through cortana's theory and I thought about speculating about how it fit into Myth, but I never really got around to it. Come to think of it, maybe I should look into old swords connected with the three mentioned.

[Edited on 12.02.2011 9:37 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 9:34 PM PDT

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Wow! I never thought that just one idea about Marathon could spread to a whole Comparison of Bungie's Past games.

I am a Genius. ha ha ha ha

  • 12.02.2011 9:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: homocidalhamI found this. The Song of Roland is essentially what Bungie's games are all connected to. This may aid you with your Myth references. You seem to be more familiar with that series than Cortana and I.

  • 12.02.2011 9:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: homocidalhamI found this. The Song of Roland is essentially what Bungie's games are all connected to. This may aid you with your Myth references. You seem to be more familiar with that series than Cortana and I.
Also, if I may throw my hat into the proverbial "ring", I think it's definitely worth looking into the other swords mentioned in that last article you link, SJ. While perhaps not having connections to AI, they could have connections to other facets that each of the series had.

For example, the story behind Almace, wielded by the Archbishop Turpin* in his battle against Abisme seems to be fairly interesting, following a fairly basic protagonist versus antagonist archetype when it comes to that section of the Song of Roland. It seems something like that could be easily woven into almost any of the franchises (Halo, Myth, or Marathon) while still having a distinct relation to said story and the weapon itself.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Just food for thought.

*of what he is an Archbishop, I know not

[Edited on 12.02.2011 10:17 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 10:05 PM PDT

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Now try how and why."


Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: homocidalhamI found this. The Song of Roland is essentially what Bungie's games are all connected to. This may aid you with your Myth references. You seem to be more familiar with that series than Cortana and I.


I already know of The Song of Roland. However, it seems like it's only a small part of the picture. All of the swords are at least named, but the only thematic parallel that it seems to share with any of the bungie games is a sense of hopeless odds, but it lacks any moment of reprieve.

It might be useful to look at whole of the chansons de gestes, which are a collection of old french poems that deal with heroic deeds, of which the song of Roland is a part. Also useful might be to look at Velent, also known a Weyland the smith, forger of all of the swords and an accomplished adventurer in his own right.

Maybe I should compile a list of common themes in various works by bungie.





[Edited on 12.03.2011 12:13 AM PST]

  • 12.02.2011 11:03 PM PDT
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http://bungie.me/sig/dot2/DEUCE+MORELLI.png

wow...

it's like reading the terminals in Halo 3, except with more content that explains more but provide more mysterious backstory.


On a digressive note...I find it amazing how Bungie inserted so much "content" in its games series, and how the true Bungiefans have dissected it and turned it into a master's level of discussion on par with salons about Locke, Rousseau and Burke.

Keep going - I and many reading this are enjoying it. Got me wanting to play all 3 Marathons and Myst now.

  • 12.02.2011 11:07 PM PDT

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