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Subject: TU Melee System

So... I prefer the old Reach system for melee, it felt alot more balanced since it very clean cut.

I found out the big difference between Reach and Halo 3 for me is the melee system, Reach was simpler and takes a level of experience out of fighting.

I understand understanding when to melee is another strategy to show this fake 'skill' we all pride our little numbers on, but I don't really have the time to learn when to melee, and I enjoyed early Reach when melee'ing was based more on who gets the jump and shoots their gun better, instead of 'oh, I know how many bullets I can shoot before a melee gets the kill', I simply don't have time enough to play and learn this numbers game that I barely want to be a part of.

But I digress, I just feel like this ability to time melees applies an unnecessary learning curve that I simply don't want to take on, call me lazy.



But anyway, here's the part where people can help me out.

Me and my friend used to play quite a bit, and squad slayer came out which didn't include armor lock. So we played squad slayer ALOT because it was just so much more fun not fighting people and them INSTANTLY going into armor lock, but that's a rant for another time.


Now, Squad Slayer is all TU gametypes, which has this new melee system that I just don't like as much as Reach's older melee system, so if I wanted to play online with the old melee system, is there a way to?

  • 12.08.2011 4:11 PM PDT

new melee = best thing ever
no more double melee noobs..cheapest kill ever

  • 12.08.2011 4:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.

Reach when melee'ing was based more on who gets the jump and shoots their gun better
What? You can't be serious.
Reach
*Melee
*Melee

Halo 3
*BR Shot
*BR Shot
*Melee

  • 12.08.2011 4:15 PM PDT
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I hate the reach Melee system, as it promotes double pummeler fegs. Halo 3s wasn't perfect either, and it works even less so on lolReach. Here's a solution that could've avoided the crappy melee systems in the first place.

Melee lunge=no no, with an exception to sword and hammer

Halo CE got it right the first time.

But back on topic, just play playlists that aren't affected by the TU. That's about all you can do.

  • 12.08.2011 4:16 PM PDT

Its not my actions that define me, but under what light I'm being looked upon.


Me after a physics lecture "So what you're saying is, non of it actually exists"
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melee should be weaker as a whole, three punches suck it should be five or so. today playing reach a guy kept sprinting up and pummeling followed by shots. as long as a melee does fast high damage noobs will sprint punch.

(also bullet from rifle has 1/3 of the kinetic energy of a punch, okay?)

also three sucked
two assult rifle shots melee dead
12 assult rifle shots melee dead
yup, thats fair.

[Edited on 12.08.2011 4:25 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2011 4:25 PM PDT

Posted by: SouthPoIe
What? You can't be serious.

Reach
*Melee
*Melee

I suppose one of the reasons this doesn't bother me is because it simply just wasn't a problem for me very much.

It may just be a huge coincidence in that I don't find people doing the double melee thing enough to make me conscious of just how cheap it is, or it also could be just how I play the game keeps me out of those types of encounters.

Let's think of it this way, most the people who would double melee, were probably those guys that used armor lock enough to make me hate it as much as I do.

Posted by: Sandtrap
But back on topic, just play playlists that aren't affected by the TU. That's about all you can do.

I guess my real question is, what playlists would those be?

[Edited on 12.08.2011 4:31 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2011 4:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.

Let's assume that you don't get into these situations. Whatever.

There's still the fact that you actually have to utilize your weapon with Halo 3's system.

In Reach, all you have to do is melee twice. The guy using his weapon and melee will always lose to double melee.

The Halo 3 system created a skill gap. I could put shots on one guy, melee him before he melees me (he's dead), and then continue on to other people. That wouldn't happen with Reach's system. If I won the retarded double pummel battle, I would be one shot and easily be melee'd by another player, resulting in my death. There would have been nothing I could have done. That's stupid. If I have better aim, I should always win.

  • 12.08.2011 4:32 PM PDT


Let's assume that you don't get into these situations. Whatever.

You're getting a little hostile... I don't see why. Maybe you assume I'M the double melee guy that you hate and that's not the case, I just don't run into it enough for it to consciously bug me as a retarded method.

I'm normally a bit more of a support role, or I always stay with a friend and we'll take people on together and we pick off a person before they get their second melee and save eachother constantly and not realize it (until now that I think of it) which may be one of the reasons I don't encounter it alot.

...with Reach's system. If I won the retarded double pummel battle, I would be one shot and easily be melee'd by another player, resulting in my death. There would have been nothing I could have done. That's stupid. If I have better aim, I should always win.
This could also be remedied though with how you play. Rather than run forward, fall back and reload, take time to gather your shields and ammo and then continue pushing forward.

I don't mean to say "well if you were smart you would do X" but more point out a way to adapt to a system.

I'm in a way playing devil's advocate, both systems have positives and negatives and I just see the positives of the Reach system as more accessible to someone who is on and off with Halo.




Just want to throw this out aswell, I'm not frustrated at all that they are changing to accommodate a system that 343 feels is better than what Bungie made with Reach, even if I prefer it, just hoping that both systems are concurrent for people who prefer one way over another.
(which for a video game to provide this option, is already so far away from the norm, since they essentially have 2 engines running, and an engine is one of the reasons people would prefer to play game X of game Y)


I like to think of it this way, I enjoyed my preferred melee system for Reach's first year, while some people may have HATED the change from Halo 3, so it's only fair that those who preferred and older system get their time to enjoy a system they have more fun playing.

  • 12.08.2011 5:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Backfjre

I'm in a way playing devil's advocate, both systems have positives and negatives and I just see the positives of the Reach system as more accessible to someone who is on and off with Halo.


I wasn't being hostile. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. You at least seem to be looking at this from a logical pov.

Thing is, the Reach version has no positives except for making it more accessible. In other words, dumbing down the gameplay. That's a bad thing.

  • 12.08.2011 5:12 PM PDT
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I liked no bleed through better honestly.

  • 12.08.2011 5:16 PM PDT

I wasn't being hostile. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. You at least seem to be looking at this from a logical pov.Not a problem.



Thing is, the Reach version has no positives except for making it more accessible. In other words, dumbing down the gameplay. That's a bad thing.
I guess the positives of dumbing it down are more for people who may be rusty (........me) or those who may just be getting into the game.

I also notice that if I played more Halo I wouldn't have this problem at all, but I've played MUCH more Reach than Halo 3, only when I played Halo 2 did I hit a game's multiplayer so hard, so I guess I'm just extremely used to this Reach system and I'll just have to readapt again. But I've also started playing more Halo 3 recently so I suppose it will save me some minor frustration in being able to switch back and forth seemlessly rather than needing to adapt between games.


I always like noticing when something is done well enough for most people.

A good example is that I enjoyed Morrowind, but there's no doubt Oblivion and then Skyrim saw a significant dumbing down to be more accessible for a casual gamer. There is just finding that balance between accessibility and dumbing down so that people are okay with it.

[Edited on 12.08.2011 5:21 PM PST]

  • 12.08.2011 5:17 PM PDT

My stats

I'm retired


Posted by: Backfjre
I found out the big difference between Reach and Halo 3 for me is the melee system, Reach was simpler and takes a level of experience out of fighting.
You said it yourself why Reach's system sucks.

  • 12.08.2011 5:18 PM PDT


Posted by: iNinjaVVen

Posted by: Backfjre
I found out the big difference between Reach and Halo 3 for me is the melee system, Reach was simpler and takes a level of experience out of fighting.
You said it yourself why Reach's system sucks.

That's up to interpretation, I later went on to say that I feel this 'memorize when to punch' thing that has come up as a result of the system is an unnecessary 'skill'.




I almost feel like a perfect system for Reach would be:

If you miss your melee, standard 'recharge' time before you can punch again.
If you land a melee, there is a longer 'recharge' time, so that the double punch stuff goes away.

  • 12.08.2011 5:25 PM PDT

"The truth is the key, and with it, I will unlock the doors of darkness and find justice."
-Me

"Why is it that lately, all I want to do is cry?"
-Phoenix Wright

I haven't played the new system, yet.

However, I can say that I don't really care much about the melee system, as I prefer to use a gun, anyway.

  • 12.08.2011 5:29 PM PDT
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75% Master Race.

  • 12.08.2011 5:32 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

I wonder why my shields don't do their damn job and protect me from somebody's fist? You mean a punch does as much damage as a grenade?

  • 12.08.2011 5:34 PM PDT

I want my elephant back.
Give it to me now!
(Please?)

Me.

lol


Posted by: And Im Here Too
I wonder why my shields don't do their damn job and protect me from somebody's fist? You mean a punch does as much damage as a grenade?

And those grenades are nukes too...

  • 12.08.2011 5:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mr Extremer22

Posted by: And Im Here Too
I wonder why my shields don't do their damn job and protect me from somebody's fist? You mean a punch does as much damage as a grenade?

And those grenades are nukes too...


The grenades make sense; badass supersoldier or not, an explosion is still an explosion. One Spartan punching another would probably work the same as a normal person punching a normal person; do normal people die in two punches?

If melee only took off half your shield or half your health, it would be perfect IMO.

  • 12.08.2011 5:41 PM PDT

"The truth is the key, and with it, I will unlock the doors of darkness and find justice."
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-Phoenix Wright


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Do normal people die in two punches?


Depending on the circumstances, yes. Sometimes, it can all end with just one. Such punches have to be aimed at a special point, however.

  • 12.08.2011 5:49 PM PDT


Posted by: And Im Here Too
The grenades make sense; badass supersoldier or not, an explosion is still an explosion. One Spartan punching another would probably work the same as a normal person punching a normal person; do normal people die in two punches?

Eh that analogy is questionable at best... we can't be completely sure that the Spartan's augmentations between ability to throw a hit and ability to take a hit scaled equally.

  • 12.08.2011 5:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Akamia179

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Do normal people die in two punches?


Depending on the circumstances, yes. Sometimes, it can all end with just one. Such punches have to be aimed at a special point, however.


Well, yeah. A good punch to the temple can shut down the brain instantly.

But in general, do any two punches anywhere, no matter where you hit them, kill somebody just like that? The answer is no.

  • 12.08.2011 5:51 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Posted by: Backfjre

Posted by: And Im Here Too
The grenades make sense; badass supersoldier or not, an explosion is still an explosion. One Spartan punching another would probably work the same as a normal person punching a normal person; do normal people die in two punches?

Eh that analogy is questionable at best... we can't be completely sure that the Spartan's augmentations between ability to throw a hit and ability to take a hit scaled equally.


True, but they're both wearing armor that both augments and protects. A superpowered punch should be blocked by their high-tech energy shields and high-density titanium suits, not just smashed apart like they're made of cardboard.

  • 12.08.2011 5:53 PM PDT

"The truth is the key, and with it, I will unlock the doors of darkness and find justice."
-Me

"Why is it that lately, all I want to do is cry?"
-Phoenix Wright


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Backfjre

Posted by: And Im Here Too
The grenades make sense; badass supersoldier or not, an explosion is still an explosion. One Spartan punching another would probably work the same as a normal person punching a normal person; do normal people die in two punches?

Eh that analogy is questionable at best... we can't be completely sure that the Spartan's augmentations between ability to throw a hit and ability to take a hit scaled equally.


True, but they're both wearing armor that both augments and protects. A superpowered punch should be blocked by their high-tech energy shields and high-density titanium suits, not just smashed apart like they're made of cardboard.

Speaking of cardboard, those helmets they wear might as well have been made cheap. Even a freaking pistol round can punch through.

  • 12.08.2011 5:56 PM PDT

Your presence here is quite unneeded. Begone you!!!

What bothered me about the melee in Halo 3 is that it was more often random than not. Like someone can have a higher shield bar than you and still have that likelyhood of losing a gunfight following with a melee for the kill.

  • 12.08.2011 5:56 PM PDT


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Backfjre

Posted by: And Im Here Too
The grenades make sense; badass supersoldier or not, an explosion is still an explosion. One Spartan punching another would probably work the same as a normal person punching a normal person; do normal people die in two punches?

Eh that analogy is questionable at best... we can't be completely sure that the Spartan's augmentations between ability to throw a hit and ability to take a hit scaled equally.


True, but they're both wearing armor that both augments and protects. A superpowered punch should be blocked by their high-tech energy shields and high-density titanium suits, not just smashed apart like they're made of cardboard.

I guess it depends just how strong that punch really is.

If you punch a guy... and he punches you, neither of you will die, obviously.

Now, you and the guy you're punching increase defense.
(let's say a relatively light armor, like... snakeskin or something I don't know)

Now, your attack goes up ALOT, you both get lightsaber's.

If you stab that guy... and he stabs you, your both dead. You were still on an equal footing (like 2 spartans may be) but your attack was so far beyond your defense, that it honestly didn't matter.


Although this is a more extreme scenario, it could very well be true that a spartan's punch is so strong that the armor becomes irrelevant.

  • 12.08.2011 5:59 PM PDT

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