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  • Subject: Ignore feature
Subject: Ignore feature

I spend too much time here.. too much time indeed.

I tweet?

Posted by: dazarobbo
In my opinion, you would be one of people who would benefit from using, and subsequently blocking, those people.

I tired once to get Ken to see that it would benefit him as much as it would other, but it appears to me that he only seems to be concerned about his image and how people perceive him here on the site.


Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: Duardo
My opinion is that, even if you aren't a fan of someone, they still have a voice and should still be able to be heard.

Not everyone should be heard.

Some people just yap at you like an angry Chihuahua, that you just want to kick into a blender.

Not everyone is worth hearing.

While I don't fully agree, I kinda do with the spirit of this. People should have the right to be heard, but others should hold the right to be able to ignore the person speaking. I shouldn't have to be forced to listen. While I can already ignore things on my own, there are just times where I see someone who seem to have a trend of just posting to post without actually contributing anything I deem personally as valuable. However, it may be just enough to keep it from being spam. I'd like the option to just throw them on an ignore list so I don't have see it anymore. And no Ken, this wasn't directed at you.

Also I apologize if my thoughts end up jumped, I'm posting this right before bed and I'm exhausted.

  • 12.13.2011 10:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
An ignore feature is the antithesis of what a community should be about.
Amen. The name of this forum may as well change if this comes to pass.

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Simply giving them the tools to allow them to only see the positive content they're interested in doesn't create any negatives since individuals won't know whether or not their content is being ignored.
It is only outright ignored if all child content is ignored as a consequence. There is no way to detemine whether content is worth ignoring until you've actually read it. We're not talking about filtering -blam!- content, we're talking about filtering people.

Honestly.
Amen.


Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: Duardo
My opinion is that, even if you aren't a fan of someone, they still have a voice and should still be able to be heard.

Not everyone should be heard.

Some people just yap at you like an angry Chihuahua, that you just want to kick into a blender.

Not everyone is worth hearing.
I believe everyone should be heard. That doesn't mean you have to listen.


Posted by: Sgt Dippinbud

Posted by: spartain ken 15


Just kick back and relax a little bit bud. Maybe refrain from posting hundreds of times a day and put that effort into 4 or 5 really well thought out posts.

It isn't you personally that people don't enjoy, but the sheer amount of posts that clog up the forums. You do not need to come up with an idea to improve the forums every single day. Perhaps once a month, will all of the great ideas in one thread. You do not need to come up with a cool idea for what you want in the Bnet store every single day either.

Going awhile without getting banned will also help. People get banned for reasons. A few consecutive months of good behavior and even the moderators will start calling you "friend".


Now, I can't speak for everyone here, but that's my two cents.
I see this as counteractive. You want someone, who appears to enjoy himself here and enjoys this community, to "cut back" or stop enjoying himself? What kind of community do we have here when we tell those that actively contribute and enjoy themselves to simply stop because some people find it "annoying." I entirely disagree with this post, and I would make it a point to contribute more just to spite it. How dare anyone tell a user that they should stop having fun simply because they may not be having the same fun. How dare any of you tell someone to post less. Who are you to tell a user that their contributions, no matter how mundane you may think they are, be stopped?


Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: Duardo
My opinion is that, even if you aren't a fan of someone, they still have a voice and should still be able to be heard. That is what makes this Community so great: everyone has a voice. Choosing to block users can take away from discussion because now a voice isn't being heard from all channels. Should it? That's the question that needs answering. Do I want a more customizable experience? Definitely! However, I don't feel that simply blocking someone is the right course of action.
Then why do we blacklist people? Because they've broken the forum rules, right?

What if I - as a regular user - report someone who I thought was being annoying, but not to the extent where they were breaking the forum rules, and the moderator didn't agree with my report? What if the moderator agreed, but didn't hand out a blacklist? I'm still stuck with the user's garbage all over the page.
Just because everyone should be heard doesn't mean you have to listen to it. I would urge that you, as a regular user, use your good judgement to simply ignore what you deem to be "annoying."

Why do regular users have to rely on a moderator's interpretation and subsequent decision on a set of rules which they [the user] has next to no input on? Because Bungie entrusted us, as "moderators," to interpret and decide upon the rules which they have created (which comes from the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. Every user agreed to this when they signed up on this website. If a user doesn't like the rules, there's always the option of creating a private group.
Why is it such a bad idea for a user to be able to apply their own set of rules to what they want to be able to "blacklist"? It's not going to affect anyone except themselves. If they lose out on the potential discussion because they've ignored someone, that's their problem.What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them? I'm not a fan of some people, but I still read what they have to say because their opinion can change the course of a thread. As I've said, everyone should be heard, but that doesn't mean you have to listen.

And again, what's the difference between having the site automatically filter out content from a specific user I don't care to interact with and myself automatically "skipping over" and not responding to content from the same user? I'm still not going to read what they've written and I'm still not going to respond to them, but at least in the latter there's an opportunity to fill the ignored content with other, potentially interesting content that I do want to see from other users.The site only filters out content when a user is banned or when a word is in the profanity filter. As for other people, just because you may not interact with them now doesn't mean you won't later. When we first joined I'm sure we weren't the most mature people. We grew up. Other users are the same way. It seems some of us have forgotten that we were new once, and that we came here for fun.

Now personally, I'll freely admit I've been skipping over what some people (for whatever reason) even in this thread. Obviously I can't ban them, but that's only because they haven't done anything wrong according to the rules of the forum. I still have no possible way to remove people that annoy me, and for a site that's set up to be a place of entertainment, I'm not sure why so many of you are kicking up such a stink about that.As a ninja I would feel as though I weren't doing my job properly if I chose to block someone on the forums. I don't believe I should have that luxury.

This site was set up as entertainment, sure, but it was set up for Bungie to interact with its community. Having users block one another fragments that relationship, and will fragment this community.

  • 12.14.2011 9:11 AM PDT

I'm going to invade your heart like a barn swallow high on milk chocolate and grandma love.

Fairness is only possible within the limited powers of man. Elsewhere, there is only chance.

Thus I refute thee.


Posted by: Duardo
I believe everyone should be heard. That doesn't mean you have to listen.

This, no lame ignore feature please. People just need self-control.

  • 12.14.2011 9:12 AM PDT

A large man

Sounds like a good idea

  • 12.14.2011 2:56 PM PDT

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I support this.

  • 12.14.2011 3:09 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Catching up on the thread...

Lots of good points on both sides of the debate. To be clear, though - any type of ignore feature would be more about allowing you a filter for your view that is easily removed. And also, nobody is developing such a system or even designing one at the present time (so no limitations on the type of feedback).

I'm personally still undecided, although I know I do want something that eliminates a lot of stupid things the moderators have to care about. It would be great if they only ever had to truely ban people for posting shock sites and the lock, because you guys could ignore for all the minor infractions. That's probably a fantasy, though.

I do think that some of you calling such a feature the "death of the community" are being a bit melodramatic. Lots of forums have ignore features, and their communities are just fine. Sure, some people use ignore buttons to silence those they don't agree with, but those type of people want to live in the echo chamber anyway and aren't really part of the community - they just like hearing that they are right from other people. Most would use such a feature as a way to instantly deal with things without having to wait for the mods.

On the same token, those complaining that people should "just ignore" those they don't like... that's also not really relevant. In the first place, who are you telling others how they read the forums is "right" or "wrong"? Besides, adding an ignore feature doesn't remove this option. Those of us who don't ever ignore people can simply go on as usual. This is about adding a tool so that people (ironically) don't have to ignore someone, their posts just won't be there or be minimized.

Anyway, one question I thought of - quoting. Does it really matter that you can see an ignored user being quoted? I mean, you can see a banned user's quoted text right now. Quoting would have to be made programmatic than it is now in order for the system to know who you're quoting. This may have consequences elsewhere. Does that change your opinion of this theoretical feature?

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I still don't know yet if something like this is even worth having, let alone doing the design and implementation work of it.

  • 12.14.2011 3:42 PM PDT

Best of random chance

*dust begins to settle*

  • 12.14.2011 3:43 PM PDT

Spread the love...

Posted by: Achronos
I agree with you. Both sides of the argument have brought up very good points. However, I think that there shouldn't be an ignore option. It would sort of put walls in between the Community. Also, no one should live in their own perfect world; they have to hear other's opinions.

  • 12.14.2011 3:44 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

Posted by: HOOBLA 911
I agree with you. Both sides of the argument have brought up very good points. However, I think that there shouldn't be an ignore option. It would sort of put walls in between the Community. Also, no one should live in their own perfect world; they have to hear other's opinions.
Did you read what he said at all?

Posted by: Achronos
I do think that some of you calling such a feature [bad by saying that it would put "walls in between the community,"] are being a bit melodramatic. Lots of forums have ignore features, and their communities are just fine. Sure, some people use ignore buttons to silence those they don't agree with, but those type of people want to live in the echo chamber anyway and aren't really part of the community - they just like hearing that they are right from other people. Most would use such a feature as a way to instantly deal with things without having to wait for the mods.


[Edited on 12.14.2011 7:57 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2011 4:04 PM PDT

You know, maybe this ignore feature could be limited to the thread the user is in. Like, you click the ignore button, and the posts by that user in the thread disappear. There are plenty of times when I wish I could just get rid of one person's posts within one thread, but not the whole site.

  • 12.14.2011 4:19 PM PDT

Posted by: Achronos
This is about adding a tool so that people (ironically) don't have to ignore someone, their posts just won't be there or be minimized.

If you do decide to go through with this feature, minimizing is definitely prefered to voiping off the face of the forum =\

Anyway, one question I thought of - quoting. Does it really matter that you can see an ignored user being quoted? I mean, you can see a banned user's quoted text right now. Quoting would have to be made programmatic than it is now in order for the system to know who you're quoting. This may have consequences elsewhere. Does that change your opinion of this theoretical feature?
Sounds like a lot of extra work for little gain. If people seriously can't stand someone on this site to the point where they don't want to see even a shred of evidence that they are interacting with the rest of the community, then that person has issues.

Would also be nice if such a censor wore off / had to be reapplied every two weeks or so. If you can't remember the name of the guy who wronged you half a month ago, then chances are that your grievances are trivial enough to the point that they can easily be forgiven.

I still don't think this feature is neccessary whatsoever, just thought I'd offer my two cents in the off chance that it potentially gets implemented.

  • 12.14.2011 4:26 PM PDT
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It'd be nice if we had a original post with all the thoughts of both sides listed out. It'd make for a cleaner debate.

  • 12.14.2011 4:29 PM PDT

YOU ARE HUMAN
Posted by: Achronos
truely

  • 12.14.2011 4:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity? If a "fragmented" community is what the people want, why shouldn't they be able to get that?

Bungie makes video games, not life lessons.

  • 12.14.2011 4:34 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity? If a "fragmented" community is what the people want, why shouldn't they be able to get that?

Bungie makes video games, not life lessons.


Let me get this right, you are saying people want to fragment the community? I don't think that will end well.

Will the ignore feature do it? Possibly. Are responses really THAT big of a deal? NO there not.

I just don't see the need for this. I don't even know how one would implement this so it wouldn't get abused.

  • 12.14.2011 4:37 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity? If a "fragmented" community is what the people want, why shouldn't they be able to get that?

Bungie makes video games, not life lessons.
The rub is that you're supposed to be in possession of those traits when you walk in the door here, and were that the case for all of us the ignore button would be a non-issue. People lacking in those traits are flawed on a basic level, so why should Bungie make extra effort to facilitate them?

  • 12.14.2011 4:43 PM PDT


Posted by: YoursTruly
Posted by: dazarobbo
The point is, realistically, moderators are the only users capable of removing content from the forums, and that sucks for regular users with no equivalent tool. You have no way of removing things that anger or annoy you; you need to hope that someone else can and will do it for you, and do it within some kind of internally acceptable frame of time that only you yourself can and will determine.

Exit the thread? Scroll down?

I don't see how a feature like this would even be useful at all. Most "annoying" posts take about a half a second to read. It would take more time to go through the ignore function than to scroll down and move on.

It just seems unnecessary to me.
But the time saved from having to do this over and over again would add up, where instead you could just take the time to ignore them once and never have to deal with them again.



My only concern with something like this would be an issue where you are reading through a discussion in a thread where someone you have blocked has posted. The discussion will be chopped up from the readers point of view and important additions to the thread and topic might be missed without realization.

Because lets be honest, some spammers only spam sometimes and if you block somebody after one spam how do you know they wont have something important to say later.

  • 12.14.2011 4:45 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Achronos
On the same token, those complaining that people should "just ignore" those they don't like... that's also not really relevant. In the first place, who are you telling others how they read the forums is "right" or "wrong"? Besides, adding an ignore feature doesn't remove this option. Those of us who don't ever ignore people can simply go on as usual. This is about adding a tool so that people (ironically) don't have to ignore someone, their posts just won't be there or be minimized.
So some people can go on as normal, and others can selectively silence other members. What is lost? Potential interaction between users, driving additional forum activity and keeping the community alive. What is gained? Some people have a slightly better forum experience in that they don't have to see posts they'd have otherwise ignored anyway? Is the gain worth the loss, and--though this isn't a user's concern--it is also worth the effort required to make this a reality?

  • 12.14.2011 4:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity?
One could also say not being able to have custom avatars is evidence Bungie isn't in the business of fostering maturity (not trying to make this out to be anything bad, however). Seeing as they have already established this philosophy for running their website, it would be hypocritical to use the maturity argument to refuse this feature.

  • 12.14.2011 4:49 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Abused... how?

An ignore button is per-user. You can't affect what other people see. If you ignore someone, they won't ever know. To them, you just decided to not reply to them... which can happen to any post for any reason right now.

The generic "it will be abused" is often thrown out when a new feature is up for discussion. But ANY type of user input can be abused (see: text-only forum posts). Does that mean your forum posts should only be comprised of symbols that represent pre-screened sentences?

Don't be that guy.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't even know how one would implement this so it wouldn't get abused.

  • 12.14.2011 4:50 PM PDT


Posted by: RighteousTyrant

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity? If a "fragmented" community is what the people want, why shouldn't they be able to get that?

Bungie makes video games, not life lessons.
The rub is that you're supposed to be in possession of those traits when you walk in the door here, and were that the case for all of us the ignore button would be a non-issue. People lacking in those traits are flawed on a basic level, so why should Bungie make extra effort to facilitate them?


Because Bungie is a business. Their job is to give their customers the best experience, based on what is happening, not what the most ideal scenario is.

We shouldn't need mods at all, because everyone should be mature when they come here. But they aren't, so we have mods to make the site better for those of us who do want to contribute. Us having moderators is Bungie making extra effort to deal with immature people.

  • 12.14.2011 4:50 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!


Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Duardo
What kind of community fragments itself because certain users can't simply choose to use their instincts to ignore what dislikes them?


It seems like this is your main argument against an ignore feature.

So the counterargument is, why is it Bungie's job to teach us to "use our instincts"? Maybe pressing a button to ignore people who annoy us is immature, but why is it Bungie's job to teach us maturity?
One could also say not being able to have custom avatars is evidence Bungie isn't in the business of fostering maturity (not trying to make this out to be anything bad, however). Seeing as they have already established this philosophy for running their website, it would be hypocritical to use the maturity argument to refuse this feature.
Well then, it's a good thing no one (at least on this page) made such an argument, isn't it?

  • 12.14.2011 4:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Achronos
Abused... how?

An ignore button is per-user. You can't affect what other people see. If you ignore someone, they won't ever know. To them, you just decided to not reply to them... which can happen to any post for any reason right now.

The generic "it will be abused" is often thrown out when a new feature is up for discussion. But ANY type of user input can be abused (see: text-only forum posts). Does that mean your forum posts should only be comprised of symbols that represent pre-screened sentences?

Don't be that guy.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't even know how one would implement this so it wouldn't get abused.
Also, if by "abused" he means over used, then it will only be harmful to that member. If someone block an endless amount of people willy nilly just for the heck of it, then they are the ones who will be missing quality discussions and thought provoking community interaction. It would have no direct negative effects on other users' experiences on the site.

[Edited on 12.14.2011 4:54 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2011 4:54 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: coolmike699
Because Bungie is a business. Their job is to give their customers the best experience, based on what is happening, not what the most ideal scenario is.

We shouldn't need mods at all, because everyone should be mature when they come here. But they aren't, so we have mods to make the site better for those of us who do want to contribute. Us having moderators is Bungie making extra effort to deal with immature people.
I said "facilitate," not "deal with." And that's where your comparison falls apart.

  • 12.14.2011 4:54 PM PDT