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  • Subject: Ignore feature
Subject: Ignore feature
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I...don't see how a feature which allows users to ignore things can even be abused. Abuse implies using an established systemic feature to bypass a norm or expectation. All ignoring will do is allow people to not see things they don't want to see. I don't even understand how that could be construed as abuse.

There are ways to abuse parts of a system like this...but it functioning as its intended is not among them.

  • 12.15.2011 4:10 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

That's not a "misuse" of it, that's a feature. Whilte its true that is a stupid reason to ignore someone, but given that most of the types of people who would ignore someone who didn't agree with them just flame the thread instead of leaving, they aren't missed.

It allows those "echo chamber" people to self-select themselves for removal from the pool. That is a positive, not a negative.
Posted by: kashinfist
I agree, it almost seems like, when used properly, the point of this ignore feature would be a frontier before reporting, as to not trouble the mods, or a more simple resolve to flaming. Like SpartainKen, I think it will be misused to block opposing views that aren't in the least bit offensive or against the rules.

  • 12.15.2011 4:11 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: evilcam

Posted by: kashinfist
Even with all that's been argued in favor of the feature, I still think it would have a negative effect. I don't think there is a single situation that the ignore feature would work better rather than just clicking out of the thread and "ignoring" any offensive content.
I ostensibly agree. The issue is, not many people seem to be able to do that. My support for this idea stems from the feature making it so that people always remembered they'd be able to ignore what they don't like. Not enough of us seem to ignore now. If given a built in feature, there would be no excuse.

I ban people for flaming now. I wouldn't need to ban a decent percentage of them if they realized they didn't have to reply and flame back. This is the only way I can think of which would remind them and give them an incentive to simply ignore someone. I remind most people whom I ban for flaming that they simply didn't have to reply to whatever offended them. Hopefully with this feature, the system itself would remind them.


I don't mind that at all. The reason I was worried not if 1, 2, 5 or 10 people ignored me. I was worried if a LOT of people ignored me to the point I couldn't have any good discussions on the forums and not many people saw my threads.

But, that hopefully will not happen. I hope that (like you said), this may settle things and cool things off. But maybe have the duration not be forever, like a week or 2 weeks would be fine, becuase they may be fine with their posts after a while, see that they changed.
It's your fault and your fault alone if that many people ignore you. Stop whining about the situation and start working on the problem at hand: that that many people would actually ignore you.

  • 12.15.2011 4:11 PM PDT

Best of random chance

...

[Edited on 12.15.2011 4:13 PM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 4:13 PM PDT

Balancing speed with visual fidelity.

Posted by: Achronos
solve some problems that have gotten worse as bungie.net got larger, and that we don't intend to ignore this time around
How ironic...

  • 12.15.2011 4:16 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: kashinfist
...
Why the elipse? Are you implying what Acky's saying isn't true? It is.

The POINT OF THE FEATURE is I don't have to see stupid, idiotic, annoying, or nonsensical posts. If I think someone is wrong about something, and I honestly think that warrants never reading their posts again, who's right is it to say I shouldn't be allowed to do that? All Bungie would be doing is facilitating a healthy action already done by the majority of users. Making the forumgoing experience easier and more fluid (the web team's job).

  • 12.15.2011 4:18 PM PDT

Best of random chance

No, I typed a response to evilcam, but when my reply was submitted, Achronos had pre-countered everything I said. I had nothing more to say.
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

  • 12.15.2011 4:19 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55]It's your fault and your fault alone if that many people ignore you. Stop whining about the situation and start working on the problem at hand: that that many people would actually ignore you.

I have to come and say that was kind of mean. You are telling me to stop whining but now are saying that I have to worry about people blocking me? okay. :/

At this point I am about to not care if this feature gets past even though what you said.

  • 12.15.2011 4:22 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't mind that at all. The reason I was worried not if 1, 2, 5 or 10 people ignored me. I was worried if a LOT of people ignored me to the point I couldn't have any good discussions on the forums and not many people saw my threads.

If more and more people begin ignoring a user for a particular similar reason - and they find out (which would be unlikely) - then it should tell the user that: "Hey, something is going on here, I wonder what I could have done? I should find out" Believe it or not, this implementation could provide constructive feedback and criticism to a user.

Even if a user posts a magnificent one-off thread, and they have someone ignoring them, then the person ignoring is at loss not the user. They would miss out on the intelligent discussions one has with other members of the community, not the user.

[Edited on 12.15.2011 4:23 PM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 4:22 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Zealot Tony

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't mind that at all. The reason I was worried not if 1, 2, 5 or 10 people ignored me. I was worried if a LOT of people ignored me to the point I couldn't have any good discussions on the forums and not many people saw my threads.

If more and more people begin ignoring a user for a particular similar reason - and they find out (which would be unlikely) - then it should tell the user that: "Hey, something is going on here, I wonder what I could have done? I should find out" Believe it or not, this implementation could provide constructive feedback and criticism to a user.

Even if a user posts a magnificent one-off thread, and they have someone ignoring them, then the person ignoring is at loss not the user. They miss out on the intelligent discussions one has with other members of the community, not you.


So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

  • 12.15.2011 4:23 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

Define a universal definition for wrong on these forums.

  • 12.15.2011 4:23 PM PDT

Best of random chance

Overly offensive or against the rules.
Posted by: Zealot Tony

Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

Define a universal definition for wrong on these forums.

  • 12.15.2011 4:24 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: kashinfist
Overly offensive or against the rules.
Posted by: Zealot Tony

Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

Define a universal definition for wrong on these forums.

What if I were to say someone being constantly annoying?

  • 12.15.2011 4:25 PM PDT

Best of random chance

Legitimate, but half the time that's considered spam.
Posted by: Zealot Tony
What if I were to say someone being constantly annoying?

  • 12.15.2011 4:26 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

A user had to of rubbed someone the wrong way or have done something to get ignored. No one is simply hated for no reason.

  • 12.15.2011 4:27 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Zealot Tony

Posted by: kashinfist
Overly offensive or against the rules.
Posted by: Zealot Tony

Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?

Define a universal definition for wrong on these forums.

What if I were to say someone being constantly annoying?


Being annoying doesn't break the rules though. But I guess if people feel certain users are SO ANNOYING that they have to wipe them clean from the forums, there must be some problem. :/

  • 12.15.2011 4:27 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?
Nothing. Because you won't know who blocked you and neither will everyone else. It's as if nothing ever changed in the first place.

("you" being a general term for anyone yadayada)

  • 12.15.2011 4:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartain ken 15

So what happens if a user gets lots of ignores and doesn't do anything wrong?
There need not be any right or wrong when it comes to an ignore feature. That's what the report feature is for. Ignoring someone is a purely personal decision, and not at all based on anything more than preference. You're injecting a level of merit that does not apply.

  • 12.15.2011 4:29 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Being annoying doesn't break the rules though. But I guess if people feel certain users are SO ANNOYING that they have to wipe them clean from the forums, there must be some problem. :/

The ignore feature doesn't correlate with the rules, it's to allow the user to block anyone he wants. The ignored user doesn't have to be a rule breaker.

Yes, a problem with that user.

  • 12.15.2011 4:32 PM PDT

Best of random chance

I feel like this whole discussion is going in circles.

  • 12.15.2011 4:33 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: kashinfist
I feel like this whole discussion is going in circles.


I know, but I mean if a lot of people want it, they should be able to have it if the webteam goes for it. But I am sure it will be put in the site in a way that does not drastically change the forums and we can all continue to talk about Bungie and their awesome games.

  • 12.15.2011 4:35 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?


Posted by: Achronos
Calling something "ridiculous" without answering the questions your submit is a little dishonest.


In an attempt to not be dishonest let me try:

1) What does the ignore feature truly accomplish?

First, we should have some idea of what the ignore feature will do.

As per the original post, the idea was to have a way for users to self-moderate content. The goal of this was to allow users to remove content they didn't want to read ("annoying crap").

The ignore feature should allow users to remove posts they don't like, break the CoC, etc., from their daily view. What benefits does an ignore feature have over a system that tags posts?

If a user wanted to view Halo story posts would it be easier for a user to ignore enough people or click on a few tags?

A benefit to the tagging system is that it globally archives posts by topic. This way any user can view certain topics just by browsing tags.

A tag systems main problem would probably be honest usage. People incorrectly tagging content would be a problem. Do we then have administrators/Bungie limiting what types of tags there are? Specific tags for certain categories like: Halo, Off-Topic, etc.? Do we have Free-For-All tagging? Again, how do we moderate it?

All issues with the system, but it sounds much better to filter content with an actual resource built for content. Rather than a feature built for removing content.

2) Why do we truly need it?

If we truly needed to ignore a post or user we should either report it for infractions of the CoC or scroll by the post.

I don't believe we truly need an ignore feature as described above. I had not thought of a filter system, but I like the idea. It would be nice and faster to view things relevant to my interests. I know, I said above that:

"Its sole purpose is to stifle discussion by allowing users to filter content into what they want to see."

I believe we shouldn't be excluding people or limiting what users can see as a way to get to what you want to see. If you can ignore a user I'm sure the Web Team would also allow you to reverse the ignore. The process is inefficient or at least annoying to cherry-pick people to ignore and reverse it to get the results you want. Assuming ignoring people meant you would no longer see their posts as described in question 1.

The benefit of a tagging system is that you can delve into whatever you want to see. As soon as you're done you can come back to the global community. You'll only see their content if it aligns with your interests. Again, if you don't like what a user says why not scroll by what they posted?

3) How will it be implemented?

I can only speculate or imagine here. I would think the ignore feature would function somewhat similar to the report feature. The ignore would collapse the user's post and mask it. Hitting the button or some other item would unmask the post. The feature might also allow you to permanently or temporarily ignore a user.

As I've described a tagging system I should discuss it too.

I think a tagging system would work similar to the file share system. A user creates a post. The user tags the post (either with custom tags or pre-defined tags). Other users could then navigate the content through use of a tag page or some other device.

4) How will it be controlled against abuse?

I am not sure how an ignore feature would be controlled against abuse. If it works as I described in my first question I can not say immediately if abuse can be prevented. The only person that is not being rewarded in the user doing all of the ignoring (in an extreme case).

As for a tag system? I would imagine reporting and profanity-filtering would have to do.

At its base level, the bungie.net forums suffer from a basic problem: you can't filter your view. If you want to talk Halo, you are given the Reach forum. Have you seen that forum and its activity level? And that's a lot less than it used to be. We had to designate an entire extra forum just for story discussion because it got lost under the people talking about the gameplay.

No, I don't really visit the Reach forum. I believe you when you say it is a busy place. I have used the forum in the past, but not recently.

We're thinking about that problem (which does exist, whether you admit it or not). And the idea of having an ignore list as one possible filter to your thread view (an optional filter, mind you) is intriguing because it ostensibly deals with some other issues involving moderation and scale: it makes it possible to view the public forums as a group-scaled place, without really losing the true scale.

I don't disagree with you that forums can get flooded and there isn't a way to filter it. I disagree with using or at least calling a filter feature an ignore feature. If we're using an ignore feature as originally described I think that it limiting the range of discussion to get what you want. If we're talking about your latter point, as a filter, then why call it an ignore feature? Its truly a filter feature and we're agreeing to the same idea in principle while calling it different names.

I am asking you, could a tagging system for content work with Bungie.net? Do you think it could provide the same solution as using an ignore feature to filter thread views?

Sure, you could make it ridiculous if you take the feature out of this context, but as I said, that is dishonest. This isn't a manufactured problem, this is having you guys talk about your feelings about such a feature that could be used to solve some problems that have gotten worse as bungie.net got larger, and that we don't intend to ignore this time around now that we're moving past Halo.

I'll list my feelings as best as I can:

1) We shouldn't allow users to limit other user speech solely based on the users ideas or feelings. Its easier to scroll past something you dislike.

2) If what we're talking about here is a way to get users to focus on content easier than I support a filtration system. As long as we're again not allowing people to cherry-pick how they interact with the global community. If you want people to experience group-like levels of interaction why not overhaul and advertise groups for this purpose? They're perfect!

3) We should find a way to spark community activity again. Either user created content: stories, games, contests, etc., or Bungie created material (which DeeJ has been doing [great job so far]).

Posted by: Zee JollyRoger
What does the ignore feature truly accomplish? Why do we truly need it? How will it be implemented? How will it be controlled against abuse? Etc.

When you start to break the idea down to its most basic principles it suddenly becomes ridiculous.

This feature, as far as I see it, in no way establishes a way to enrich community discussion. Its sole purpose is to stifle discussion by allowing users to filter content into what they want to see.

  • 12.15.2011 4:35 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55]It's your fault and your fault alone if that many people ignore you. Stop whining about the situation and start working on the problem at hand: that that many people would actually ignore you.

I have to come and say that was kind of mean. You are telling me to stop whining but now are saying that I have to worry about people blocking me? okay. :/

At this point I am about to not care if this feature gets past even though what you said.
It's not mean. It's true. Don't call me mean because of you inability to recognize the fact that theres something wrong with what you're doing here when you're predicting THAT many people will ignore you.

Saying that I'm being mean is juvenile, ken.

  • 12.15.2011 4:44 PM PDT

Best of random chance

I feel like this is where an ignore feature could be implemented and work properly, as there is nothing against the rules but the discussion is heated.
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55]It's your fault and your fault alone if that many people ignore you. Stop whining about the situation and start working on the problem at hand: that that many people would actually ignore you.

I have to come and say that was kind of mean. You are telling me to stop whining but now are saying that I have to worry about people blocking me? okay. :/

At this point I am about to not care if this feature gets past even though what you said.
It's not mean. It's true. Don't call me mean because of you inability to recognize the fact that theres something wrong with what you're doing here when you're predicting THAT many people will ignore you.

Saying that I'm being mean is juvenile, ken.

  • 12.15.2011 4:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: kashinfist
I feel like this is where an ignore feature could be implemented and work properly, as there is nothing against the rules but the discussion is heated.


My thoughts exactly.

Though, the discussion is getting heated and all the talk about one specific user in how this system relates to it is getting disruptive again. Let's discuss the feature, not individual users.

  • 12.15.2011 4:51 PM PDT