Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Catherine Elizabeth Halsey: Punish or Release?
  • Subject: Catherine Elizabeth Halsey: Punish or Release?
Subject: Catherine Elizabeth Halsey: Punish or Release?

Since the release of Halo: Glasslands (BTW, for those not informed it's Glasslands and not Grasslands) there has been a steady stream of confusion (and some disapproving comments)over the way Halsey was portrayed in the novel by Karen Traviss. So I'm going to lay down a few worthy notes concerning the good (or bad) doctor.

So let's start with the basics of what we all know. Catherine Halsey is a genius. And I don't think anyone will disagree with that. She's been one of the most important scientific figures in both the war against the Covenant and the research involved in Forerunner ruins and technology, etc. However, I think it's fair to say that she will not have been completely in the loop with every scrap of research, new discoveries or advances in technology.

She was valuable to ONI, so they used her to supplement their needs, not the other way around, though there are obviously cases where she [Halsey] went about her business in a manner that suited her, using some illegal methods to achieve her aims.

Halsey is effectively the mother of the Spartan-II Program. She did the research. She picked up the pieces from the Orion program. She orchestrated the criteria for the candidates and she most definitely came to the conclusion that the younger the candidate the better.

Some see what she did as the main attribute for the UNSC surviving as long as they did. Some see her decision of using six year-olds as necessary. And some see her as the surrogate mother figure for the Spartans--a woman who did in fact care deeply for them all.

Others, however, such as Osman, Parangosky and members of the Halo community itself see her as an a determined, single-minded scientist intent on creating soldiers from innocent children who should have stayed very firmly with her parents.

You know what, both sides are true.

Halsey is all of the above. She's both Dr. Frankenstein and Mary Poppins. Something needed to be done and she did it. She took the situation at face value and dealt with it without the emotional baggage. She created the best soldiers in the UNSC and they did the job of taking on the enemy in their stride.

But the war is over, and questions are being asked.

Was what she did, taking those children at that age, the right thing? Did her actions single-handedly stave off defeat for mankind? Should she be punished? Should she carry on with her work?

Yes!

And for those who don't like the way the other characters view her, realise this: As a Spartan, you've just found out that the war has now finished. You've become aware of what fully transpired in your creation. You are given the chance to read your personal file. Your parents are still alive.

A lot of you won't be able to put yourself in this position, simply because we all like to view the Spartans as the perfect soldiers--fearless, loyal and determined. And because some of you don't have children.

I believe a lot of people have missed the point entirely with Glasslands. It's not about Halsey, it's about those who were affected by her. It's about how they view her, not us.

Cue backlash, comments, shouting and general mud slinging...

  • 12.15.2011 7:53 AM PDT

Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?

[Edited on 12.15.2011 8:01 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 8:00 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

  • 12.15.2011 8:04 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

but the spartans were needed to escape so called ''full out human-human war''.

  • 12.15.2011 8:12 AM PDT

I feel she did the right thing and should not be punished. She knows full well of the attrocities that she may have committed and i'm sure she felt pain for it everyday. If there is such a thing she will pay for it in the afterlife. Fact is it saved the human race in a way and its well worth it.

On a side note i'm sure a very good portion of the Children/furture spartans would have died anyway from all the glassings (that is if the project did not happen).

  • 12.15.2011 8:13 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Halsey shouldn't get Flak for what the assembly is doing especially since this is going to bring humanity to the top. I love how Ackerson's Ethics are completely thrown aside.

  • 12.15.2011 8:16 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?

  • 12.15.2011 8:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?


You might want to stop throwing that word around since you aren't using it properly seeing how what he said isn't stupid. You on the other hand are a moron for saying there are 300 SIIs.

[Edited on 12.15.2011 8:32 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 8:23 AM PDT


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?

Think first, then type...
That was a question with already known answer.

  • 12.15.2011 8:29 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

but the spartans were needed to escape so called ''full out human-human war''.
They were not needed, Catherine Halsey clearly wasn't thinking about that when doing it. She certainly made an excuse out of it.

Posted by: FTW 1997
Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?
Did I ever say it wasn't worth it? No. Did I say that they had no idea the Covenant even existed at the time they started it? Yes. You just don't understand what I'm talking about. If you keep calling people idiots like you are you'll end up looking like one yourself... If you haven't already.

[Edited on 12.15.2011 8:32 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 8:29 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?


You might want to stop throwing that word around since you aren't using it properly seeing how what he said isn't stupid. You on the other and are a moron for saying there are 300 SIIs.

Thanks Grey

  • 12.15.2011 8:29 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

but the spartans were needed to escape so called ''full out human-human war''.
They were not needed, Catherine Halsey clearly wasn't thinking about that when doing it. She certainly made an excuse out of it.
It doesn't make a big difrence if she made them in ''time of need'' or for her ''own goals'', the fact is there, her actions saved entire human race.

  • 12.15.2011 8:31 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: AnubissWarior
It doesn't make a big difrence if she made them in ''time of need'' or for her ''own goals'', the fact is there, her actions saved entire human race.
This is about if she is a monster or not. This isn't about whether or not what she did was best for humanity in the long run. It is about her goals. Trust me, if this was about whether or not her actions were good for humanity I'd be the first on the "Hell yes" train, but that's not what this is about.

[Edited on 12.15.2011 8:35 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 8:34 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
It doesn't make a big difrence if she made them in ''time of need'' or for her ''own goals'', the fact is there, her actions saved entire human race.
This is about if she is a monster or not. This isn't about whether or not what she did was best for humanity in the long run. It is about her goals. Trust me, if this was about whether or not her actions were good for humanity I'd be the first on the "Hell yes" train, but that's not what this is about.

I think she sufered pain inside her, because she felt that she did something wrong.
If you count all the things,odds... I think she is between good and bad.

  • 12.15.2011 8:40 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: AnubissWarior
I think she sufered pain inside her, because she felt that she did something wrong.
If you count all the things,odds... I think she is between good and bad.
So feeling bad about something makes up for it? Then again, it does take away from the monstrous image.

[Edited on 12.15.2011 8:47 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 8:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?


You might want to stop throwing that word around since you aren't using it properly seeing how what he said isn't stupid. You on the other hand are a moron for saying there are 300 SIIs.


Wow,i've never seen such a moron as you.
Seriously you annoy me incredibly...
I was talking about the WHOLE 300 SII's that where entered into the program...

  • 12.15.2011 8:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


You need to go re-read the earlier parts of The Fall of Reach and re-read Contact Harvest then if you think the Spartan II program was completely unneeded and unnecessary. Have you completely forgotten about the rebels running around blowing up anything and everything in order to get the UNSC to comply with their demands? Normal military methods simply did not work against the Insurrection, and things were only getting worse and the civilian body-count was dramatically increasing.

If the Insurrectionist had only been targeting the UNSC military I would probably agree that the Spartan II program wasn't really needed. The fact however remains that the civilian populace of the UNSC was being targeted, and not solely the military. The Spartans were needed to combat the growing Insurrection and curb their terrorist activities. And what no one really seems to remember is that the Spartan II program (or something very similar) would have been created with or without Halsey.

  • 12.15.2011 8:57 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?

Think first, then type...
That was a question with already known answer.


What the hell are you talking about ?


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

but the spartans were needed to escape so called ''full out human-human war''.
They were not needed, Catherine Halsey clearly wasn't thinking about that when doing it. She certainly made an excuse out of it.

Posted by: FTW 1997
Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?
Did I ever say it wasn't worth it? No. Did I say that they had no idea the Covenant even existed at the time they started it? Yes. You just don't understand what I'm talking about. If you keep calling people idiots like you are you'll end up looking like one yourself... If you haven't already.

You said she didnt do what she had to do...
The spartans where in no great need...
That alone means death of millions of people....
And no il not end up as a moronic idiot like grey who wants to anger all the people who dont agree with him.

  • 12.15.2011 9:01 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

You're not even bothering to read the rest of my posts... I just said that, at the time, there wasn't a true need for the Spartans. When saying that I was thinking of the Covenant.

I did forget how formidable the insurrection was, though.

  • 12.15.2011 9:09 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Thats an excuse...
Read the callisto incident i think you will understand how dangerous the insurrection was.

  • 12.15.2011 9:13 AM PDT


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?

Think first, then type...
That was a question with already known answer.


What the hell are you talking about ?


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.

but the spartans were needed to escape so called ''full out human-human war''.
They were not needed, Catherine Halsey clearly wasn't thinking about that when doing it. She certainly made an excuse out of it.

Posted by: FTW 1997
Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?
Did I ever say it wasn't worth it? No. Did I say that they had no idea the Covenant even existed at the time they started it? Yes. You just don't understand what I'm talking about. If you keep calling people idiots like you are you'll end up looking like one yourself... If you haven't already.

You said she didnt do what she had to do...
The spartans where in no great need...
That alone means death of millions of people....
And no il not end up as a moronic idiot like grey who wants to anger all the people who dont agree with him.

Ask that question to your self, then you will know both-the answer and the reason why i asked it.

  • 12.15.2011 9:16 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: AnubissWarior
Halsey did what she needed to do.

Would you sacrifice one humans life to save miljons?
She didn't do what she needed to do. There was no need for the Spartans when she did the things she did. It wasn't until far after the Spartan programs had been in effect that the Covenant showed up.


Wow your such an idiot...so you say a few millions of lives are not worth 300 ?


You might want to stop throwing that word around since you aren't using it properly seeing how what he said isn't stupid. You on the other hand are a moron for saying there are 300 SIIs.


Wow,i've never seen such a moron as you.
Seriously you annoy me incredibly...
I was talking about the WHOLE 300 SII's that where entered into the program...


There were never 300 spartan IIs, it was 150. So again, stop trying to insult people when you don't understand what you are talking about.

  • 12.15.2011 9:20 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

I love how people just ignore what the Innies were doing and criticise Halsey because the Spartans were originally made to kill other humans. It's like nobody read Halsey's journal, there's a report of Rebels attacking entire colonies and slaughtering civilians.

Doctor Carver's assessment of the Insurrection was that: "Unless the political situation throughout the colonies is stabilized (preferably by force), the Government will collapse and civil war will rip human society apart."

Now I don't know about you guys, but the part about human society being torn apart seems like a pretty good reason to start making super-soldiers to prevent this.

  • 12.15.2011 9:21 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: FTW 1997
Thats an excuse...
Read the callisto incident i think you will understand how dangerous the insurrection was.
I just said I forgot how formidable it was. Every single time you reply it seems like you don't understand a single thing I'm saying. Then again you're only 14 according to your name.

  • 12.15.2011 9:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: FTW 1997
Thats an excuse...
Read the callisto incident i think you will understand how dangerous the insurrection was.
I just said I forgot how formidable it was. Every single time you reply it seems like you don't understand a single thing I'm saying. Then again you're only 14 according to your name.


Whats wrong with people like you ?
I just told you to read that incident to know more...you say i dont understand you and that im a child...
By the way...my name is not my birthdate...

Also i only replied to you two times...

[Edited on 12.15.2011 9:26 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 9:25 AM PDT