Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: The doctor's pacifism in halo universe...would it work?
  • Subject: The doctor's pacifism in halo universe...would it work?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: The doctor's pacifism in halo universe...would it work?

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

The doctor from the aclaimed british series Doctor Who is the last time lord from the planet Galifrey.

While he isn't foreign to use violence (specially during his classic series regenerations) After the time war he was been reluctant to ever kill. use a gun or commit an act of genocide (probably due to regret). Nowdays he is unwilling to hurt or kill even a single living being.

In Doctor Who heroes tend to prevail using their brains and relying on their ideals over brawn and violence. The doctor has saved the day many times with nothing but a sonic screwdriver and his intellect.

The doctor would have probably tried to reason with the flood and the covenant... not sue if he would have succeed. Tough using the Tardis to talk with the forerunners would have surely helped.

TL:dr But Would that pacifism work in halo?. Do you think a hero that in no way uses violence would have prevented the human-covenant wars or the human-flood wars? or is violence a necessary mean to achieve any good in the halo universe? just like the masterchief is obligated to do.

[Edited on 12.16.2011 10:54 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2011 10:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Violence isn't a "bad" action, and if you knew anything about halo you would know those events require violence and grit.

  • 12.16.2011 10:40 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?


Posted by: grey101
Violence isn't a "bad" action, and if you knew anything about halo you would know those events require violence and grit.


I know a lot about halo. More than most less than some

[Edited on 12.16.2011 10:42 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2011 10:41 PM PDT

To be honest, when I first saw all this in the weekly update I thought 2 things.
#1- there is an actual legendary ending but,
#2- No matter what anyone does,(kill all the bobs, hit all switches etc) that until the "time" mentioned in "There'll be another time..." is reached there won't be a legendary ending.

The weekly update by bungie has slowed my hardcore search for what unlocks the legendary ending.

It wouldn't work on the flood, especially in the early stages with no grave mind. Even with him, he needs biomass

  • 12.16.2011 10:47 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member

I am...whimsical today.

The Human-Covenant war could arguably have been avoided by releasing and repairing Mendicant Bias on High Charity, and exposing Truth, Mercy and Regret to the powers of the Covenant.

The Doctor could probably 'tune' the array to target specifically Flood forms as well (because narrative causality ;) ).

That said, I'm not really getting much in the way of solutions to the Insurrection.

  • 12.16.2011 10:52 PM PDT

There's a treasure for all of us. For some it's a friend others find a pet and many a lover. The whole adventure is finding where it's hidden.

That treasure doesn't include my avatar, you copycat.

- Treasure Island

No, I don't sympathize with wild theories from an ancient TV show. Different storylines, events and morals are behind each story respectively.

[Edited on 12.16.2011 11:41 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2011 11:11 PM PDT

To be honest, when I first saw all this in the weekly update I thought 2 things.
#1- there is an actual legendary ending but,
#2- No matter what anyone does,(kill all the bobs, hit all switches etc) that until the "time" mentioned in "There'll be another time..." is reached there won't be a legendary ending.

The weekly update by bungie has slowed my hardcore search for what unlocks the legendary ending.


Posted by: Guscon
The Human-Covenant war could arguably have been avoided by releasing and repairing Mendicant Bias on High Charity, and exposing Truth, Mercy and Regret to the powers of the Covenant.

The Doctor could probably 'tune' the array to target specifically Flood forms as well (because narrative causality ;) ).

That said, I'm not really getting much in the way of solutions to the Insurrection.
What i don't understand is how the halo array goes from killing the floods food, to legends showing it wiping out flood entirly. Wtf?

  • 12.16.2011 11:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: mrhalo007

Posted by: Guscon
The Human-Covenant war could arguably have been avoided by releasing and repairing Mendicant Bias on High Charity, and exposing Truth, Mercy and Regret to the powers of the Covenant.

The Doctor could probably 'tune' the array to target specifically Flood forms as well (because narrative causality ;) ).

That said, I'm not really getting much in the way of solutions to the Insurrection.
What i don't understand is how the halo array goes from killing the floods food, to legends showing it wiping out flood entirly. Wtf?
Because it wasn't "just killing the food" to start with. I told you last time that it kills anything that is or can be infected, cortana just shortened that into something john could understand quickly.

  • 12.16.2011 11:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The Covenant never negotiate with enemies. At most, you'll get a transmission calling you an evil heretic, before they open fire.

And it's clear the flood wouldn't either, their hunger to consume all prevents that.

  • 12.16.2011 11:29 PM PDT

Not on the Flood, they just can't and won't see any reason. They're pretty much nothing more than animals acting on instinct with the Proto-Graveminds being a possible exception and the Gravemind being an obvious one. But even then, the Gravemind wouldn't see any sort of reason, he appears to be rather single-mindedly focused on having vengeance on the Forerunners and their heirs (humanity) for some reason. And I highly doubt that he would ever be dissuaded from his path, even if it was someone like the Doctor. I think he'd probably be forced to destroy the Flood or use some other method to remove them as a threat.

He'd have much more luck with the Covenant I think, or stopping the Human-Forerunner War. But never with the Flood, trying to reason with them will only end with them trying to eat you.

Edit: And from what I know/heard (someone who actually really knows Doctor Who [like AJW] please correct me if I'm wrong) the Doctor isn't truly a pacifist as he can and sometimes does kill when he has to, especially if it comes down to either letting some evil, world-devouring threat run loose and completely destroying/overrunning all life in the universe, or killing all or most of it to save it all.

[Edited on 12.17.2011 9:19 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 9:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Nope.

  • 12.17.2011 9:03 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Edit: And from what I know/heard (someone who actually really knows Doctor Who [like AJW] please correct me if I'm wrong) the Doctor isn't truly a pacifist as he can and sometimes does kill when he has to, especially if it comes down to either letting some evil, world-devouring threat run loose and completely destroying/overrunning all life in the universe, or killing all or most of it to save it all.


Absolutely.

When the Cybermen boarded the TARDIS in Earthshock, the Fifth Doctor gunned them down with their own weapons without hesitating. The Fourth Doctor killed a Sontaran in cold blood, he's committed genocide about 5 times, had no problem with wiping out Earth and the Daleks with the Delta Wave, allowed the Racnoss Empress to drown to death, kills Professor Lazarus, cruelly tortures the Family of Blood, kills everyone except one family in Pompeii, killed the Sycorax leader with a satsuma, was prepared to kill all the Sontarans above Earth, bashed a caveman's head in with a rock, turned the human race into genocidal killing machines against the Silence...

I could go on here... :P

The point is, he is a man who strives for peace but does so usually by killing almost everyone.

  • 12.17.2011 10:59 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Don't flame me for this reference, but *Naruto Spoilers* Uchiha Itachi was a pacifist, yet he's one of the strongest characters in Naruto. He had to kill the entire Uchiha clan (except his brother, Sasuke) to keep peace in Konoha (The Hidden Leaf Village). He hates war, wants peace, but is forced to use violence to try and preserve peace. Anyway, moral of the story, they could brand Chief or some other character as a pacifist...But, they'd still have to kill in order to bring peace...and not get humanity completely wiped out.

  • 12.17.2011 11:11 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

After the time war the doctor has become a true pacifist however. Not because he is a saint, but because he has repented for all those things you have mentioned. Including the genocide to his own people.

are you a coward or a killer?

"A coward anyday"

Hence the reason he stranded the meta-crisis doctor. Even the family of the blood ep was all about the doctor running from his impulse to be a cruel person... and he failed.

He is less like a space Ghandi and more like a space paul.

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: OrderedComa
Edit: And from what I know/heard (someone who actually really knows Doctor Who [like AJW] please correct me if I'm wrong) the Doctor isn't truly a pacifist as he can and sometimes does kill when he has to, especially if it comes down to either letting some evil, world-devouring threat run loose and completely destroying/overrunning all life in the universe, or killing all or most of it to save it all.


Absolutely.

When the Cybermen boarded the TARDIS in Earthshock, the Fifth Doctor gunned them down with their own weapons without hesitating. The Fourth Doctor killed a Sontaran in cold blood, he's committed genocide about 5 times, had no problem with wiping out Earth and the Daleks with the Delta Wave, allowed the Racnoss Empress to drown to death, kills Professor Lazarus, cruelly tortures the Family of Blood, kills everyone except one family in Pompeii, killed the Sycorax leader with a satsuma, was prepared to kill all the Sontarans above Earth, bashed a caveman's head in with a rock, turned the human race into genocidal killing machines against the Silence...

I could go on here... :P

The point is, he is a man who strives for peace but does so usually by killing almost everyone.


[Edited on 12.17.2011 11:26 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 11:20 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: BestSpartan117
After the time war the doctor has become a true pacifist however. Not because he is a saint, but because he has repented for all those things you have mentioned. Including the genocide to his own people.

are you a coward or a killer?

"A coward anyday"

Hence the reason he stranded the meta-crisis doctor. Even the family of the blood ep was all about the doctor running from his impulse to be a cruel person... and he failed.

He is less like a space Ghandi and more like a space paul.


Rubbish, the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors are extremely violent.

He's never said so in his entire life that he's a pacifist, and especially not in the rebooted series where he's more violent than ever.

Nine

Happily killed the Nestene consciousness in the very first episode of the new Doctor Who.

Was content in wiping out the Gelth.

Killed Lady Cassandra (twice).

Was more than prepared to gun down the Dalek in cold blood until Rose stopped him.

Had no problem letting everybody on Satellite 5 die to buy him time to create the Delta Wave, which would kill all the Daleks and humans on Earth.

Had no recriminations for Rose after she committed genocide against the Daleks.

Ten

Killed the Werewolf in Tooth and Claw.

Destroys the Krillitanes in School Reunion without hesitation, was even going to join them to tear down the universe and rebuild it.

Has no problem wiping out Cybermen in Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel.

Destroys "The Wire" in the episode The Idiot's Lantern.

Was willing to let a planet full of Ood die in "The Satan Pit" to save Rose.

Kills lots of Cybermen and Daleks in Doomsday.

Destroys the Racnoss in Runaway Bride.

Kills the Carrionites in The Shakespeare Code.

Is indirectly responsible for the death of the Face of Boe.

Wipes out the Daleks (for like the fifth time) in Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks (as well as some of the pig slaves).

Kills Richard Lazarus in the Lazarus Experiment.

Wreaks horrible vengeance on The Family of Blood.

Causes the destruction of Pompeii, killing everyone but four people (who he only rescued because Donna begged him).

Attempts to kill an entire fleet of Sontarans in "The Poison Sky" but is saved by someone else doing it for him.

Destroys the Daleks yet again in Journey's End, labelled 'Ka Faraq Gatri' by Davros.

Destroys a bunch of Cybermen in The Next Doctor, disintegrating them and Miss Hartigan.

Killed one of the Flood by electrocuting it.

Makes Adelaide kill herself.

Commits genocide against the Time Lords (again) in The End of Time.

Eleven

Threatens the Atraxi with destruction if they don't leave the Earth alone in The Eleventh Hour.

Was willing to turn an intelligent being into a mindless vegetable in The Beast Below.

Destroys all of the Weeping Angels in Flesh and Stone.

Is a direct accomplice to the genocide of the Saturnyne in Vampires of Venice.

Threatens all of his enemies with violence in The Pandorica Opens.

Has no problem at all completely altering a man's life.

Turns humanity into a race of genocidal murderers against the Silence.

Happily kills House in the TARDIS.

The whole of AGMGTW.

'Kills' Amy to prevent a paradox.

[Edited on 12.17.2011 11:47 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 11:47 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Not exactly

I never said he was some kind of space gandhi. He obviously has a dark side.He isn't a saint that's for sure. That's why he needs his companions

He never said that he was a pacifist but he DID said he wasn't a killer. He strives for peace even tough he does fail like when he was helped by Donna noble agaisnt that giant spider.

To be sure the doctor doesn't ever go trigger happy to solve his problems.





Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: BestSpartan117
After the time war the doctor has become a true pacifist however. Not because he is a saint, but because he has repented for all those things you have mentioned. Including the genocide to his own people.

are you a coward or a killer?

"A coward anyday"

Hence the reason he stranded the meta-crisis doctor. Even the family of the blood ep was all about the doctor running from his impulse to be a cruel person... and he failed.

He is less like a space Ghandi and more like a space paul.


Rubbish, the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors are extremely violent.

He's never said so in his entire life that he's a pacifist, and especially not in the rebooted series where he's more violent than ever.

Nine

Happily killed the Nestene consciousness in the very first episode of the new Doctor Who.

Was content in wiping out the Gelth.

Killed Lady Cassandra (twice).

Was more than prepared to gun down the Dalek in cold blood until Rose stopped him.

Had no problem letting everybody on Satellite 5 die to buy him time to create the Delta Wave, which would kill all the Daleks and humans on Earth.

Had no recriminations for Rose after she committed genocide against the Daleks.

Ten

Killed the Werewolf in Tooth and Claw.

Destroys the Krillitanes in School Reunion without hesitation, was even going to join them to tear down the universe and rebuild it.

Has no problem wiping out Cybermen in Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel.

Destroys "The Wire" in the episode The Idiot's Lantern.

Was willing to let a planet full of Ood die in "The Satan Pit" to save Rose.

Kills lots of Cybermen and Daleks in Doomsday.

Destroys the Racnoss in Runaway Bride.

Kills the Carrionites in The Shakespeare Code.

Is indirectly responsible for the death of the Face of Boe.

Wipes out the Daleks (for like the fifth time) in Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks (as well as some of the pig slaves).

Kills Richard Lazarus in the Lazarus Experiment.

Wreaks horrible vengeance on The Family of Blood.

Causes the destruction of Pompeii, killing everyone but four people (who he only rescued because Donna begged him).

Attempts to kill an entire fleet of Sontarans in "The Poison Sky" but is saved by someone else doing it for him.

Destroys the Daleks yet again in Journey's End, labelled 'Ka Faraq Gatri' by Davros.

Destroys a bunch of Cybermen in The Next Doctor, disintegrating them and Miss Hartigan.

Killed one of the Flood by electrocuting it.

Makes Adelaide kill herself.

Commits genocide against the Time Lords (again) in The End of Time.

Eleven

Threatens the Atraxi with destruction if they don't leave the Earth alone in The Eleventh Hour.

Was willing to turn an intelligent being into a mindless vegetable in The Beast Below.

Destroys all of the Weeping Angels in Flesh and Stone.

Is a direct accomplice to the genocide of the Saturnyne in Vampires of Venice.

Threatens all of his enemies with violence in The Pandorica Opens.

Has no problem at all completely altering a man's life.

Turns humanity into a race of genocidal murderers against the Silence.

Happily kills House in the TARDIS.

The whole of AGMGTW.

'Kills' Amy to prevent a paradox.


[Edited on 12.17.2011 11:57 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 11:50 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: BestSpartan117
Not exactly

I never said he was some kind of space gandhi. He obviously has a dark side.He isn't a saint that's for sure. That's why he needs his companions

He never said that he was a pacifist but he DID said he wasn't a killer.

To be sure the doctor doesn't ever go trigger happy to solve his problems.


But he IS a killer, doesn't matter if he denies it he most definitely is a killer. I suggest you watch Earthshock, he does go trigger happy, grabbing a Cyberman's weapon and gunning them down at point-blank range in the TARDIS.

  • 12.17.2011 11:57 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

I agree to a degree, to be clear he does kill and he isn't a saint by any means.

As you have mentioned the show has been clear that he has a dark side that he is trying to suppress (dream lord and the valeyard).

But after the time war he is obviously repented from all that violence he has caused. He is not space Ghandi to be sure.

But you can see in his actions that he really tries and he really regrets what he did. Remember the first time he met Donna Noble? as "Turn left" showed he would have succumbed to his dark instincts if it wasn't for her.

To label the doctor a killer is not exactly true. he is more a man that repents to be a killer and fights his dark impulses not to kill but often fails and not a one dimensional space!punisher.

What he did to the family of the flood for instance was a great example of him fighting his dark side... and failing.



Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: BestSpartan117
Not exactly

I never said he was some kind of space gandhi. He obviously has a dark side.He isn't a saint that's for sure. That's why he needs his companions

He never said that he was a pacifist but he DID said he wasn't a killer.

To be sure the doctor doesn't ever go trigger happy to solve his problems.


But he IS a killer, doesn't matter if he denies it he most definitely is a killer. I suggest you watch Earthshock, he does go trigger happy, grabbing a Cyberman's weapon and gunning them down at point-blank range in the TARDIS.


[Edited on 12.17.2011 12:07 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 12:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: grey101
Violence isn't a "bad" action, and if you knew anything about halo you would know those events require violence and grit.


Forgive me, but I must disagree with your assessment. My thematic interpretation of the Halo series is that of an allegory to Spartan society, whose ideals for brawn over brain withered them down to a society of organization, strength, and power, but at the same time stagnation, oppression, and a lower intellectual capacity.

Thus, it is my conjecture that Halo attempts to teach its users about violence's inherent victories, as well as its cons. (IE: John-117's lack of human qualities.)

OP: I doubt the blending of the Doctor Who Universe and Halo would go over too well. The character trait the Doctor possesses, however, would definitely be feasible in the long run of things within each and every universe, though. Is that what you were attempting to tackle?

  • 12.17.2011 12:04 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: BestSpartan117
I agree to a degree, to be clear he does kill and he isn't a saint by any means.

As you have mentioned the show has been clear that he has a dark side that he is trying to suppress (dream lord and the valeyard).

But after the time war he is obviously repented from all that violence he has caused. He is not space Ghandi to be sure.

But you can see in his actions that he really tries and he really regrets what he did. Remember the first time he met Donna Noble? as "Turn left" showed he would have succumbed to his dark instincts if it wasn't for her.

To label the doctor a killer is not exactly true. he is more a man that repents to be a killer and fights his dark impulses not to kill not a space!punisher.

What he did to the family of the flood for instance was a great example of him fighting his dark side... and failing.


But he doesn't repent for all his violence after the Time War at all. The whole point of AGMGTW is to show how the Doctor is ruled by his dark side and entire organisations have been formed to stop him (The Alliance, The Silence etc).

"This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began all those years ago, sailing off to see the Universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name. 'Doctor'. The word for 'healer' and 'wise man' throughout the Universe. We get that word from you, you know. But if you carry on the way you are, what might that word come to mean? To the people of the Gamma Forests, the word 'Doctor' means 'Mighty Warrior'. How far you've come... and now they've taken a child. The child of your best friends. And they're going to turn her into a weapon just to bring you down. And all this, my love, in fear of you."

Even after the Time War, he has not changed one bit at all. And he never will.

  • 12.17.2011 12:09 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

But river song said that he was a good person and that he should (wedding of river song) stop being feeling sorry for himself.

In any case this story arc is far from being completed to make any judgement.

"Silence will fall when the question is answered"


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: BestSpartan117
I agree to a degree, to be clear he does kill and he isn't a saint by any means.

As you have mentioned the show has been clear that he has a dark side that he is trying to suppress (dream lord and the valeyard).

But after the time war he is obviously repented from all that violence he has caused. He is not space Ghandi to be sure.

But you can see in his actions that he really tries and he really regrets what he did. Remember the first time he met Donna Noble? as "Turn left" showed he would have succumbed to his dark instincts if it wasn't for her.

To label the doctor a killer is not exactly true. he is more a man that repents to be a killer and fights his dark impulses not to kill not a space!punisher.

What he did to the family of the flood for instance was a great example of him fighting his dark side... and failing.


But he doesn't repent for all his violence after the Time War at all. The whole point of AGMGTW is to show how the Doctor is ruled by his dark side and entire organisations have been formed to stop him (The Alliance, The Silence etc).

"This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began all those years ago, sailing off to see the Universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name. 'Doctor'. The word for 'healer' and 'wise man' throughout the Universe. We get that word from you, you know. But if you carry on the way you are, what might that word come to mean? To the people of the Gamma Forests, the word 'Doctor' means 'Mighty Warrior'. How far you've come... and now they've taken a child. The child of your best friends. And they're going to turn her into a weapon just to bring you down. And all this, my love, in fear of you."

Even after the Time War, he has not changed one bit at all. And he never will.


[Edited on 12.17.2011 12:12 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 12:11 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: BestSpartan117
But river song said that he was a good person and that he should (wedding of river song) stop being feeling sorry for himself.

In any case this story arc is far from being completed to make any judgement.

"Silence will fall when the question is answered"


She said he's a good man, which is both true and false. His intentions are good, but he corrupts everyone he touches. Look at his companions, as Davros points out, he turns them into weapons. He ditches the people who love him, he gets them killed, he makes them trust him and lets them down because of his own 'God complex' (which was explored a lot in The Girld Who Waited and The God Complex).

  • 12.17.2011 12:15 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

From a meta point of view characters need flaws. Davros was right of course. But without flaws the doctor would be a MarySue.Everyone could create a perfect flawless character and that would be boring


Flaws are cool.

Let's agree that we disagree as I think this is going bit off topic.



Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: BestSpartan117
But river song said that he was a good person and that he should (wedding of river song) stop being feeling sorry for himself.

In any case this story arc is far from being completed to make any judgement.

"Silence will fall when the question is answered"


She said he's a good man, which is both true and false. His intentions are good, but he corrupts everyone he touches. Look at his companions, as Davros points out, he turns them into weapons. He ditches the people who love him, he gets them killed, he makes them trust him and lets them down because of his own 'God complex' (which was explored a lot in The Girld Who Waited and The God Complex).


[Edited on 12.17.2011 12:27 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 12:25 PM PDT

Glory and fame, blood is our name!
Souls full of thunder, hearts of steel!
Killers of men, a warrior's friend!
Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
Sons of the gods, today we shall die.
Open Valhalla's door!
Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!

How did he let FoB die? Even then, since we can all assume he's a REALLY old Jack, he might not have died even then.

  • 12.17.2011 12:27 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2