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  • Poll [45 votes]: The Tau Empire vs The Covenant
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Subject: The Tau Empire vs The Covenant

Poll: The Tau Empire vs The Covenant  [closed]
The Tau Empire :  53%
(24 Votes)
The Covenant:  47%
(21 Votes)
Total Votes: 45

I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.

[Edited on 12.17.2011 11:03 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 11:02 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Another versus thread, huh...

  • 12.17.2011 11:04 AM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Another versus thread, huh...


:P

Oh look, it's actually pretty balanced!

  • 12.17.2011 11:08 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Imperial Ships can within-stand several teratones, possibly up to teratones of power before succumbing. A Tau space station can one-shot anything short of a Battle Barge. Did I ever tell you about the Railgun?

  • 12.17.2011 12:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
Imperial Ships can within-stand several teratones, possibly up to teratones of power before succumbing. A Tau space station can one-shot anything short of a Battle Barge. Did I ever tell you about the Railgun?


I know about the railgun (is broadside whore in the tabletop game)
I didn't know the Tau's space stations were that good 0.o

  • 12.17.2011 12:57 PM PDT

The Tau are the technologically advantageous faction in a universe that has hilariously overpowered technology. What do you think the answer is?

But as is uasually the case, a ground battle might be more interesting to watch. Tau still win, until the Covenant get in close.

then again...


[Edited on 12.17.2011 1:02 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2011 1:00 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The Tau are the technologically advantageous faction in a universe that has hilariously overpowered technology. What do you think the answer is?

But as is uasually the case, a ground battle might be more interesting to watch. Tau still win, until the Covenant get in close.

then again...

Good luck. All I will say is Fish of Fury, the scorn of pre-5thEd players everywhere. For those not in the know, it is widely acknowledged as the cheapest Warhammer tactic ever, of all time.

  • 12.17.2011 1:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The Tau are the technologically advantageous faction in a universe that has hilariously overpowered technology. What do you think the answer is?

But as is uasually the case, a ground battle might be more interesting to watch. Tau still win, until the Covenant get in close.

then again...

Good luck. All I will say is Fish of Fury, the scorn of pre-5thEd players everywhere. For those not in the know, it is widely acknowledged as the cheapest Warhammer tactic ever, of all time.


Which is why I posted that link. It reads "yeah we suck at close combat. To bad you'll never get there."

Still, how would an Elite swordsman fare against a Tau soldier in in a battlefield that spans about 50 to hundred meters? Gives the Tau a chance to shoot, but the Elite a chance to close in.

Just curious.

  • 12.17.2011 1:41 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The Tau are the technologically advantageous faction in a universe that has hilariously overpowered technology. What do you think the answer is?

But as is uasually the case, a ground battle might be more interesting to watch. Tau still win, until the Covenant get in close.

then again...

Good luck. All I will say is Fish of Fury, the scorn of pre-5thEd players everywhere. For those not in the know, it is widely acknowledged as the cheapest Warhammer tactic ever, of all time.


Which is why I posted that link. It reads "yeah we suck at close combat. To bad you'll never get there."

Still, how would an Elite swordsman fare against a Tau soldier in in a battlefield that spans about 50 to hundred meters? Gives the Tau a chance to shoot, but the Elite a chance to close in.

Just curious.


How fast do the elites move? Don't forget the Tau have weapons with huge stopping power, Fire Warriors are great shots and actually fairly strong, when combined with photon grenades at least. The Tau are actually quite survivable in close combat, they just can't deal damage.

Also, kroot. nuff said

  • 12.17.2011 1:48 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The Tau are the technologically advantageous faction in a universe that has hilariously overpowered technology. What do you think the answer is?

But as is uasually the case, a ground battle might be more interesting to watch. Tau still win, until the Covenant get in close.

then again...

Good luck. All I will say is Fish of Fury, the scorn of pre-5thEd players everywhere. For those not in the know, it is widely acknowledged as the cheapest Warhammer tactic ever, of all time.


Which is why I posted that link. It reads "yeah we suck at close combat. To bad you'll never get there."

Still, how would an Elite swordsman fare against a Tau soldier in in a battlefield that spans about 50 to hundred meters? Gives the Tau a chance to shoot, but the Elite a chance to close in.

Just curious.


Tau pulse rifles are actually quite strong. I don't know an exact number, but they can punch through a foot of brick/stone and still have enough force left to injure. I would say that the Fire Warrior would get a few good shots off at the Elite and possibly kill him but as soon as the Elite gets close it's over unless the Fire warrior has photon grenades. Even then that would just buy him a short amount of time.

  • 12.17.2011 1:52 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Xd00999
Fish of Fury

...
Never ever mention that again.

  • 12.17.2011 4:31 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Xd00999
Fish of Fury

...
Never ever mention that again.

In your opinion, is the Fish of Fury better or worse than a 3ed Necron march?

  • 12.17.2011 5:15 PM PDT

I HATE NOOBS

I dont really like the covenant that much but the would win cause of Arby n,The Cheif lololololololololololololololololololololololol ROFLMAO

  • 12.17.2011 6:27 PM PDT

ULTIMATE FAILURE.

This is the first vs. thread I've read where I don't know which way to vote. I applaud you good sir.

  • 12.17.2011 6:47 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

Yeah...Tau are technologically superior compared to the Covenant.

  • 12.17.2011 8:21 PM PDT

Covenany aint got nothing on tau empire

  • 12.17.2011 8:28 PM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.

To be actually honest, I could see Covenant winning this. My reasons are mostly these:

The area in space that Tau holds is not too vast. I can't remember properly how huge area Covenant owns, but didn't they have atleast the orion arm of the milky way? If they did, their resources are much greater then Tau's. Another thing within Tau empire is Farsight enclave, which would prove to be more harm then help for Tau, assuming that they haven't allied.

Tau couldn't attack Covenant. Even while their weaponry is absolutely devastating, their fleet is too slow, since they haven't developed proper ways to cross space durign conflicts. Covenant is much more capable on space combat then Tau, though if Covenant would decide to take a journey in Tau space, I could see them getting annihilated by Tau's forces. This mostly because Tau's tactics are capable of evolving fast against different foes.

  • 12.17.2011 11:49 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

Probably each faction could hold its own in a defensive battle.

  • 12.17.2011 11:52 PM PDT

I think I'll throw this into the mix...

Would it be safe to assume, that if the war dragged on forever (unlikely due to to Tau political and military doctrines, but go with it) that the Tau could eventually reverse engineer a covvie FTL drive?

  • 12.18.2011 2:11 AM PDT

ULTIMATE FAILURE.


Posted by: DarkBen64
I think I'll throw this into the mix...

Would it be safe to assume, that if the war dragged on forever (unlikely due to to Tau political and military doctrines, but go with it) that the Tau could eventually reverse engineer a covvie FTL drive?


This guy has a point. The Tau aren't like, say, the Imperium - they aren't prissy about where technology comes from or whether it appeases some god or not, it's all about how good it is. I find it quite likely that a protracted war with the Covenant would simply equip the Tau with FTL technology, on a par with that of the rest of the 40k universe. Which would be terrifying. I'm pretty sure the only reason the tau aren't the most prominent race is because of how immobile they are. With FTL ability, the Covenant would be stripped of one of their main advantages - speed.

  • 12.18.2011 4:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: DarkBen64
I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.


The covenant has sucky AI's.

  • 12.18.2011 6:36 AM PDT


Posted by: renagadeface

Posted by: DarkBen64
I think I'll throw this into the mix...

Would it be safe to assume, that if the war dragged on forever (unlikely due to to Tau political and military doctrines, but go with it) that the Tau could eventually reverse engineer a covvie FTL drive?


This guy has a point. The Tau aren't like, say, the Imperium - they aren't prissy about where technology comes from or whether it appeases some god or not, it's all about how good it is. I find it quite likely that a protracted war with the Covenant would simply equip the Tau with FTL technology, on a par with that of the rest of the 40k universe. Which would be terrifying. I'm pretty sure the only reason the tau aren't the most prominent race is because of how immobile they are. With FTL ability, the Covenant would be stripped of one of their main advantages - speed.


The Covenant on the other hand loath the very idea of getting captured. I don't think an Elite shipmaster would allow his ship and crew to be dishonored by getting captured. If he's losing a battle and in no way can win, he'll probably self destruct the ship--preferably with a swarm of Tau nearby to get caught in the blast.

I haven't the slightest idea how Tau space technology works or their tactics, but with the slowness I've been hearing it may not be as much of a curb stomp as I originally thought (though it'll take more then that to convince me of the Covenant winning).

[Edited on 12.18.2011 7:35 AM PST]

  • 12.18.2011 7:35 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Using some rather vague numbers, Tau ships travel at the speed of 19.56 lightyears/day. To be honest, Tau outmatch the Covenant technologically and tactics but have slower FTL and less numbers (probably. Anton said that there are around 4000 Covenant Ships IIRC).

The Tau will easily win in space and land until the Covenant brings their superior numbers to bear. Even then it might not work. Tau are firmly against last stands and static positions often letting the enemy take cities so that they can engage them elsewhere. Shadowsun once brought down an entire Splinter Fleet without loosing a single ship.

  • 12.18.2011 9:26 AM PDT


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64
I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.


The covenant has sucky AI's.


They have AI almost at the level of Cortana.

  • 12.18.2011 10:14 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
Using some rather vague numbers, Tau ships travel at the speed of 19.56 lightyears/day. To be honest, Tau outmatch the Covenant technologically and tactics but have slower FTL and less numbers (probably. Anton said that there are around 4000 Covenant Ships IIRC).

The Tau will easily win in space and land until the Covenant brings their superior numbers to bear. Even then it might not work. Tau are firmly against last stands and static positions often letting the enemy take cities so that they can engage them elsewhere. Shadowsun once brought down an entire Splinter Fleet without loosing a single ship.


QFT

The Tau only hold a static position to make sure that they have time to destroy key structures before they let the enemy overwhelm the city and they make a calculated retreat - however they are experts at seizing the moment to attack and will often wait days searching for the perfect moment to strike. While they have slower ships, the Tau are extremely mobile on the ground and redeploy incredibly often when opportunities to strike arise.

Due to the Covenant's nature of requiring a high ranked elite or brute to even function as a coherent army, one such Tau strike would be enough to end a large Covenant campaign.

  • 12.18.2011 10:18 AM PDT

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