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Subject: The Tau Empire vs The Covenant
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Xd00999
Fish of Fury

...
Never ever mention that again.

In your opinion, is the Fish of Fury better or worse than a 3ed Necron march?

Never made war against a 'cron player.

Spent over a thousand dollars on models. Quit in 2005 because I did not like what was happening to the series. Matt Ward should be fired for what he did to the 'crons.

  • 12.18.2011 10:32 AM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Matt Ward should be fired for what he did to the 'crons.


I can't really see why. While he is indeed quite incompetent, he and others did good job on Necron's codex. The old crons had no spirit in their army, and only actual character was Deceiver.

New fluff especially has taken Necrons to a better direction. They have much more lore and characters, which means that Dynasties have also certain uniqueness and feeling. Ward has his trademark bull-blam!- there though, but he was able to pull out some pretty interesting and good ideas that make me feel like it was 2nd or Rogue trader times.

Trazyn the Infinite is proof of this. He is imo easily among the best characters in 40k that have ever been created. Same thing with Zahndrekh and Obyron.

  • 12.18.2011 1:30 PM PDT


Posted by: teekuppi

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Matt Ward should be fired for what he did to the 'crons.


I can't really see why. While he is indeed quite incompetent, he and others did good job on Necron's codex. The old crons had no spirit in their army, and only actual character was Deceiver.

New fluff especially has taken Necrons to a better direction. They have much more lore and characters, which means that Dynasties have also certain uniqueness and feeling. Ward has his trademark bull-blam!- there though, but he was able to pull out some pretty interesting and good ideas that make me feel like it was 2nd or Rogue trader times.

Trazyn the Infinite is proof of this. He is imo easily among the best characters in 40k that have ever been created. Same thing with Zahndrekh and Obyron.

I think they took the Necrons in a horrible direction. They used to be mindless, tortured killing machines who were slaves to their C'tan masters.
Now they have defeated the C'tan and are Eygpytians in space.

  • 12.18.2011 1:55 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

Space Monks/Knights, Space Nuns, Space Elves, Space Communists, and now Space Egyptians? What's next? Space Orks? Oh wait, they already have that

  • 12.18.2011 2:52 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Sacrificing the Necrons' mystery for character was a good choice in my opinion. Now we have the potential for more exploration (thinking Cryptum, but with Necrons). Some people are mad about retconing the C'Tan into shadows of themselves but the codex does state that some C'Tan and shards escaped which means there very well could be a shard of the Deceiver making mischief out there are there still could be the Dragon under Mars.

I would also like to say that while I am a Tau player I have never used Fish of Fury. I had a choice between using it or leaving my Pathfinders dangerously exposed and I chose honor before tactics. My Pathfinders still managed to hold on quite well.

  • 12.18.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: rst7503
Space Monks/Knights, Space Nuns, Space Elves, Space Communists, and now Space Egyptians? What's next? Space Orks? Oh wait, they already have that


Gratz, that made me lol

  • 12.18.2011 3:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
Sacrificing the Necrons' mystery for character was a good choice in my opinion. Now we have the potential for more exploration (thinking Cryptum, but with Necrons). Some people are mad about retconing the C'Tan into shadows of themselves but the codex does state that some C'Tan and shards escaped which means there very well could be a shard of the Deceiver making mischief out there are there still could be the Dragon under Mars.

I would also like to say that while I am a Tau player I have never used Fish of Fury. I had a choice between using it or leaving my Pathfinders dangerously exposed and I chose honor before tactics. My Pathfinders still managed to hold on quite well.


I find it extremely unoriginal to take the necrons quality and background and replace it with a space aged version of something we have in real life.

From being the hulking mass of nearly invincible, teleporting, unfeeling, literal killing machines to just another civilization which is based on the Egyptians of old.
and now all the c'tan are the same.

  • 12.18.2011 6:53 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

No idea, but the Covenant in space combat looks pretty deadly.

  • 12.18.2011 7:42 PM PDT

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Back on topic people, Tau and Covenant, Necrons are cool and all, but not interesting seeing as they can defeat just about anything.

Anyway, I can see elites with swords and active camo doing massive amounts of damage to Tau troops. I also think that it's possible an EMP would disable some kinds of Tau weaponry.

And to add to the Covenant material, their plasma weaponry, as the name suggests, fires superheated plasma stabilized within electromagnetic fields. This is the same technology used in the Energy sword as it doesn't cut through material, so much as boil through it.

These plasma shots can also burn through thick metal plating.

  • 12.18.2011 9:55 PM PDT

Waypoint Moderators aren't really Moderators, just power hungry and its goal is defend their beloved Halo at all costs. (Meaning that they wank Halo too much.)

BS Angel is alleged foe so, be wary of Waypoint and its moderators! Do not attempt to move to Waypoint. Enter your own risk.

*WARNING* IT IS MY OPINION.


Posted by: Xerzaph
Back on topic people, Tau and Covenant, Necrons are cool and all, but not interesting seeing as they can defeat just about anything.

Anyway, I can see elites with swords and active camo doing massive amounts of damage to Tau troops. I also think that it's possible an EMP would disable some kinds of Tau weaponry.

And to add to the Covenant material, their plasma weaponry, as the name suggests, fires superheated plasma stabilized within electromagnetic fields. This is the same technology used in the Energy sword as it doesn't cut through material, so much as boil through it.

These plasma shots can also burn through thick metal plating.


Yes but there is a problem: Navy Superiority. Tau's Navy is technologically advanced than Covenant.

In various Halo novels and tidbits; we have calculated that Covenant's navy dishes out considerable high level of megatons to mid level gigatons of TNT firepower and its defense can withstand from mid level megatons of TNT to mid level gigatons of TNT.

Compared to Tau's firepower is in teratons of TNT range and their defense capable of withstanding teratons of TNT firepower, it's no doubt that Tau reigns navy superiority.

Also, if Tau empire had some kind of electromagnetic fields in their ships, it would render plasma weaponry completely useless.

I'd vote for Tau Empire.

  • 12.18.2011 10:02 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

As somebody state before, the Tau Empire simply doesn't have the logistics to fight against a space empire as large as the Covenant. The Tau Empire is comparatively beyond tiny. So, the Tau would be able to hold their own against a Covenant invasion, but no way would they be able to launch a counter-invasion.


Also: Terminator Mummies for the win!!!

  • 12.18.2011 10:37 PM PDT

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[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]

I have a feeling that the Tau would win almost every ground engagement. But the Covenant should be able to dominate most air engagements and space.

  • 12.18.2011 10:48 PM PDT

See - I don't.

Basically every Tau ship has some form of massive railgun, which would obliterate the covvies

  • 12.19.2011 2:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64
I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.


The covenant has sucky AI's.


They have AI almost at the level of Cortana.

The covenants AI technology is on its lowest level because they started making them during the war ...they thought it was because of an AI their "l0rd5" lost.

  • 12.19.2011 6:45 AM PDT


Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64
I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.


The covenant has sucky AI's.


They have AI almost at the level of Cortana.

The covenants AI technology is on its lowest level because they started making them during the war ...they thought it was because of an AI their "l0rd5" lost.


Then explain how Cortana was troubled by the AI in First Strike. The Covenant have AI powerful enough to annoy Cortana, and from what we've seen more powerful than Tau AI, as we only know of combat drone AI.

  • 12.19.2011 8:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997

Posted by: DarkBen64
I thought it might be good to actually have a balanced 'debate' over two empires that might actually have a chance against each other.

So, let's break this down...

Firstly, the timeline of each empire that they will battle in.
The Tau are at the peak of the Third Sphere Expansion (basically their highest recorded peak) and the Covenant are just before the start of the Human-Covenant war.

Tau:

"For the Greater Good!"

Extremely advanced weapons tech, hugely advanced battlesuit technology.
Extremely powerful guns.
Efficient combat AI.
Have 3 auxiliary races to aid in different forms of combat: The Kroot (forest/jungle aliens, extremely good fieldcraft and melee skills, able to manipulate their DNA along generations.}
The Vespids (insectoid, flying aliens. Quite large, very good shock troopers, carry deadly weapons capable of piercing through space marine power armour.)
Gue'Vesa (Human Auxiliaries, fight with a combination of Tau and Human (Imperium) weapons.)

Have unique battle tactics:
Mont'ka (Killing blow) The Tau hunter cadre leads a decisive strike into the heart of the opponent's force, crippling its fighting capability.
Kauyon (Patient Hunter) The Tau lure the enemy into an ambush and quickly destroy the enemy with a crossfire of pulse fire.

The Tau do not possess FTL travel as their minds do not register in the warp, however can still travel at extremely high speeds and their empire is situated in a comparatively small area of space.

Covenant:

"For the Great Journey!"

Many more races in the empire over a bigger sector of space (?)
FTL travel

However, fight in more 'roving warband' like fashion (as is often seen in the Halo games) and are easy to make an entire battleforce completely incoherent with the elimination of key leadership roles.

Do not possess as advanced weaponry, however there is evidence that supports the fact that they have more capable AI (really the only Tau AI is that found in the combat drones).

(I haven't got quite as much knowledge for the Covie side, so if anyone has relevant info WITH SOURCES kindly let me know and I'll add it to the OP.


The covenant has sucky AI's.


They have AI almost at the level of Cortana.

The covenants AI technology is on its lowest level because they started making them during the war ...they thought it was because of an AI their "l0rd5" lost.


Then explain how Cortana was troubled by the AI in First Strike. The Covenant have AI powerful enough to annoy Cortana, and from what we've seen more powerful than Tau AI, as we only know of combat drone AI.


She easly captured him...he even gave up his loaction...
He kept sending heresy messages...she trapped him....
If you think that,that was hard for an AI that possessed the entire knowledge of humanity in 2 hours...think again.

  • 12.19.2011 8:27 AM PDT



The point, is that the Covenant have more powerful AI than the Tau, as far as we know. SO don't drag this off topic with your bad English -.-

  • 12.19.2011 9:16 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DarkBen64


The point, is that the Covenant have more powerful AI than the Tau, as far as we know.


Which is pretty much irrelevant since they only use the AI for basic ship functions.

  • 12.19.2011 9:22 AM PDT

Which the Covenant need as the Tau have advantages in space bar FTL travel.

  • 12.19.2011 10:01 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DarkBen64
Which the Covenant need as the Tau have advantages in space bar FTL travel.


The covenant has longed banned AIs due to MB betraying the forerunners. The one and only covenant AI we have ever seen was a human copy, we have no proof of them using their own AIs.

  • 12.19.2011 10:04 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DarkBen64
Which the Covenant need as the Tau have advantages in space bar FTL travel.


The covenant has longed banned AIs due to MB betraying the forerunners. The one and only covenant AI we have ever seen was a human copy, we have no proof of them using their own AIs.


I thought that was a covvie AI. Oh well, all the more advantages to the Tau then.

  • 12.19.2011 10:06 AM PDT

Shameless bump for a chance of a good debate for once...

  • 12.20.2011 4:24 PM PDT

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