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  • Subject: Important things overlooked in Halo Cryptum
Subject: Important things overlooked in Halo Cryptum
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

So while reading cryptum for the sixth time naturally you are bound to find things you didn't see before. I am going to share what i learned about the forerunners and humans and i apologize if you expected another long thread.


Ancient Man

While reading the book it was implied through the whole novel that Ancient Man was composed of many races, i will post the implications here in a "Tidbit" format.




Humans were de-graded into 20 races.



Humanity's de-evoulution seems to be a conundrum. Didact states he asked for riser's kind to be preserved,yet didn't want chakas' kind due to being too much like ancient man.




It seems that de-graded humans have a perk of what they once were, it also seems like there were more races. Didact states riser has "the form" of ancient man [not to mention a decent lifespan] While it seems chakas might have the spirit or mindset. pg 82.



Didact stated that risers kind were to be made servants to the forerunners and teachers to their children. Pg 82 and 86

pg 127 once again speaks of human forms in plural. it also raises doubts on earth being our homeworld.


"....Under her influence,equipped with her Geas, these pitiful remnants had in a few thousand years grown into a population of hundreds of thousands and regained many of their ancestral forms..."[/b





Now naturally, with all the hints i assumed that man could have been made of one race that varied genetically like the forerunner rates. That is until i saw this.




Page 120 confirms that ancient man was composed of several forms and that those forms indeed did appear again after the war.



So It is clarified that humanity was composed of [b]forms
. I think The term "Races" isn't used because they are all human just of different body. So they could have a system in which certain types of humans (like chakas' kind) were the warriors while others filled in other roles.



50,000 Years Ago




Pg 17 Bornstlellar says earth is humanity's homeworld.Though on pg 20 his AI states humans arose there "to the best of forerunner research" meaning that not be our homeworld.


It was further stated that humanity relocated their empire to the edges of the orion arm 50,000 years ago

I always thought something was up with that, though many people waved it off it appeared again on Page 127.



"...If Erde-Tyrene had indeed been their true planet of origin,Then these later transplants and intervention must have muddied the fossil records beyond all sense..."[/b]

Constant doubts are raised on the location of mans origins. The Confirmer later comments on how the San Shyuum were moved to The current system they reside in, They aren't native. This too could be true for humanity.



Page 222 States that "original" forerunner homeworld was rendered uninhabitable 50,000 years ago by stellar experiments.


[quote]

The Librarians AI states that records from that time are "sparse" on page 20



Isn't it extremely odd how both races had an event happen to them 50,000 years ago? It is furthermore interesting if Earth actually was indeed humanitys homeworld, which means both races had to relocate their empires.


Now Page 327 states that the Prisoner had been sleeping for 50,000 years. I say "prisoner" because Didact says the humans quickly rethought the Idea of it being a "precursor" and stated to be some aberration



So we have 2 empires having an event happen to them 50,000 years ago that caused them to be relocated and a monster that has been imprisoned for the same amount of time.


Any ideas?

  • 12.20.2011 9:16 AM PDT

"Except we, we're the zebras. All fenced in...and ready for the slaughter!"

||S-fen Knee-cheh
||19th Shock Troops Battalion

I hope more of this come to light with the release of Primordium.

  • 12.20.2011 10:04 AM PDT

ancient evil in our forgotten history that we need to reclaim?

  • 12.20.2011 10:45 AM PDT

Maybe a sign of why we were devolved?

We were at war with the others and both got devolved and relocated?

Another possible ancient enemy?

Just some thoughts out loud.

  • 12.20.2011 2:05 PM PDT

...DAMNIT PRIMORDIUM WHY AREN'T YOU OUT YET?

Nice post btw. Makes me hyped for Primordium even more now.

[Edited on 12.20.2011 2:10 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2011 2:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Yea, Primordium should explain this more. I just wanted to post this out before the book came out.

  • 12.20.2011 8:08 PM PDT
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Posted by:
Like what?
"Oh hey honey im going to virtually destroy oh.... 10 or so interplanetary species and hopefully become a god after I have a cataclysmic suicide!"

Is it possible that Humans and the Forerunners were both created by the Precursors and are from the SAME planet? It would explain a lot.

  • 12.21.2011 1:30 AM PDT

Or as the saying goes... history always repeats itself.

...Which we have already seen a lot of in Halo... could the Precursors children have been de-evolved thus creating Forerunners and Humans?

  • 12.21.2011 2:04 AM PDT
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Like what?
"Oh hey honey im going to virtually destroy oh.... 10 or so interplanetary species and hopefully become a god after I have a cataclysmic suicide!"


Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls
Or as the saying goes... history always repeats itself.

...Which we have already seen a lot of in Halo... could the Precursors children have been de-evolved thus creating Forerunners and Humans?

I don't think so. Didn't the Forerunners revolt against them?

  • 12.21.2011 2:14 AM PDT

I know that the Precursor is the most likely ancient enemy, but what if it was Ancient Man that had survived the Forerunner Onslaught and returned?

  • 12.21.2011 5:29 AM PDT
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Madara, Tobi....call me whatever you want. I'M NO ONE. I DON'T WANT TO BE ANYONE. ALL I CARE ABOUT IS COMPLETING THE MOON'S EYE PLAN."

It's funny Grey brought that up about the possiblitiy of differing genetics of the ancient human race, I remember talking about this, however it took a back seat in my mind as more discussions about the precursor came out.

I myself thought that the ancient humans had to have a rate system somewhat similar to the forerunner's. Or at least a warrior class that was on par with the gargantuan forerunner warriors, it would only make sense as they were technological equals. All the talk about how fierce the human warriors were, and how the entire race was physically reduced, would by sort of pointless if they were the same 5'9'' wimps we have in the unsc.

  • 12.21.2011 5:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: qirahs
It's funny Grey brought that up about the possiblitiy of differing genetics of the ancient human race, I remember talking about this, however it took a back seat in my mind as more discussions about the precursor came out.

I myself thought that the ancient humans had to have a rate system somewhat similar to the forerunner's. Or at least a warrior class that was on par with the gargantuan forerunner warriors, it would only make sense as they were technological equals. All the talk about how fierce the human warriors were, and how the entire race was physically reduced, would by sort of pointless if they were the same 5'9'' wimps we have in the unsc.


You should have spoken up then or atleast messaged me about it and i would have looked into this sooner.

Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room. note. A 12 year old forerunner is taller than an adult brute Then seeing how he said the didact "may be" twice his size and 4-5 times his math we found that the didact could be 16 feet tall! Taller than a hunter by 4 feet!

So this makes the whole "fighting forerunners" stuff nonsense now that we have an idea of how ridiculously tall they can be.
Now as Bornstellar was changing into his new form i remember him saying how the humans have grown too and that Chakas was almost to his shoulder. So we could roughly find out how tall he was also.

  • 12.21.2011 2:37 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room.


I'd like to see this working out. I don't see how it could be accurate seeing as how we have nothing tangible that we can compare it to.

  • 12.21.2011 2:40 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room.


I'd like to see this working out. I don't see how it could be accurate seeing as how we have nothing tangible that we can compare it to.


To be fair, people worked out how many suitors there were in Odysseus's palace by examining the sizes of the furniature and what-not.

  • 12.21.2011 2:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room.


I'd like to see this working out. I don't see how it could be accurate seeing as how we have nothing tangible that we can compare it to.


*Sigh* are you sure? because i remember him roughly giving the size of the cryptum and how many times bigger it was than him. I also remember him saying how "many times bigger" the Didact "may be" than him.

  • 12.21.2011 3:03 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: grey101
Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room.

I'd like to see this working out. I don't see how it could be accurate seeing as how we have nothing tangible that we can compare it to.

10 metre tall War Sphinxes just barely manage to fit into a chamber which is 4 times the height of Bornstellar.

Pages 43 and 70 are the relevant ones.

  • 12.21.2011 3:04 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

I think something happened between humans and the san shyumm involving the prisoner. But, I'm interested in knowing - if something did happen to them - if the prisoner was on the side of humanity or san shyumm. Or if the prisoner was the enemy to both of them. And how do the Forerunners play into all this? O.o

Interesting stuff. Ignore any ignorance in my post, if there is any. I only read Cryptum once and that was about a year ago. I don't remember a lot.

[Edited on 12.21.2011 3:12 PM PST]

  • 12.21.2011 3:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
I think something happened between humans and the san shyumm involving the prisoner. But, I'm interested in knowing - if something did happen to them - if the prisoner was on the side of humanity or san shyumm. Or if the prisoner was the enemy to both of them. And how do the Forerunners play into all this? O.o

Interesting stuff. Ignore any ignorance in my post, if there is any. I only read Cryptum once and that was about a year ago. I don't remember a lot.


Well i want to keep this more directed towards the humans and forerunners. The San Shyuum were oddly left unexplained in the novel. I am hoping that books on Ancient man will explain more about them.


I can see halo branching out like starwars with having an old ancient era while having a current "modern" era.

  • 12.21.2011 3:21 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: grey101
Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room.

I'd like to see this working out. I don't see how it could be accurate seeing as how we have nothing tangible that we can compare it to.

10 metre tall War Sphinxes just barely manage to fit into a chamber which is 4 times the height of Bornstellar.

Pages 43 and 70 are the relevant ones.


Gotcha. Top lad.

[Edited on 12.21.2011 3:33 PM PST]

  • 12.21.2011 3:32 PM PDT

Maybe an outer-galactic species came in, and dominated, forcing the forerunners and humans to relocate.

Could be Precursors, which could explain the prisoner, or another species as the humans have thought?

^ This could be link with the ship on AOCR terminal?

[Edited on 12.21.2011 7:55 PM PST]

  • 12.21.2011 7:55 PM PDT
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Madara, Tobi....call me whatever you want. I'M NO ONE. I DON'T WANT TO BE ANYONE. ALL I CARE ABOUT IS COMPLETING THE MOON'S EYE PLAN."


Posted by: grey101

You should have spoken up then or atleast messaged me about it and i would have looked into this sooner.

Anton worked out that bornstellar was roughly 8.5 feet tall when he opened the cryptum, based off how he described the room. note. A 12 year old forerunner is taller than an adult brute Then seeing how he said the didact "may be" twice his size and 4-5 times his math we found that the didact could be 16 feet tall! Taller than a hunter by 4 feet!

So this makes the whole "fighting forerunners" stuff nonsense now that we have an idea of how ridiculously tall they can be.
Now as Bornstellar was changing into his new form i remember him saying how the humans have grown too and that Chakas was almost to his shoulder. So we could roughly find out how tall he was also.


yea this topic sort of drifted to the back of my mind, in the face of the precursor and his awesomeness.

Wow, my original modest esimates put born around (or should i say at least) 7'6'', before his mutation, as his mother was around 6'7'', and his sister was taller than his mother. Assuming since the foreunner are larger than humans, a "little" taller to them would be like 4-6 inches to us. 8'6'' though is completely plausible. And after his 1st mutation I'd say at least 9-10 feet in height.

And seeing as how his father was 13'1'', and yet was never described the way didact was. I'm assuming the didact was much bigger, around 15-16 feet in height. So yea, i can see where anton got those numbers.

Which is also why i thought the ancient warrior humans must have been massive as well, how else could they have fought of these behemoths? Since Bear went through so much to equalize the humans and the foreunner, the human warriors must have been at leat the size of a hunter otherwise it just would not be fair, it would be a disparity ten times worse than the present-day humans against brutes and elites scenario.

  • 12.22.2011 6:44 AM PDT

Joshua Piper

Could the spartans and other human warriors like the vikings be descended from Chakas and his kind? we know that aggression can be determined by genetic factors as well as enviromental, so could it be possible for people to be pre-disposed towards being warriors?

I've heard a of theories surrounding the master chief and the Spartans II's being the genetic descendants of the Chakas and the warriours of Ancient man.

Alos if some Ancient humans were typically massive in Goliath like terms in order to fight forerunner, maybe that could be a reason why John and the spartans were naturally larger and stronger than everyone else even before their augementations?

Please excuse me If anyone else has already spoken about this, I just want to see if anyone thinks this could be a plausible reason/cause for some humans like the spartans being naturally/unnaturally larger and stronger then others.

One last question. if Ancient man dabbled in genetic memory/engineering would it or the Lifeshapers geas be dominant in modern humans during the UNSC era?

  • 12.28.2011 10:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Very good points.

seeing how we don't know anything about ancient Man i can't say. but primordium will cover it so i'll update accordingly.

  • 12.28.2011 10:48 AM PDT

yas334229812

I am really interested with what you wrote, alhtough gone for quite some time i must say that i am really stoked for the primoridium.

Primoridium sounds really promising and on top of that i want some filling in of the history of the human civilization till the start of the halostory.

  • 12.28.2011 5:28 PM PDT