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Subject: When Skulls do unexpected things!
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Has anyone ever found that with certain skull combos active that certain sequences happen out of order or at the wrong time?

Normally, with no skulls:

During CS, the spawn at the end of the first hanger battle does not take place until all of the covies in the first hanger are dead.

The last two times I have had multiple skulls going I have had that door open and the covies spawn while I still had 2 elites alive. I had Assassins as one of the skulls going at the time.

During Outskirts, the Hunter spawn at the end of the initial courtyard battle normally does not occur until all of the covie spawns have been put to rest.

Today, and several times before, with Assassins going (among others) I had that Hunter arrival while I still had 2 buggers, a jackal sniper and 1 elite still harrassing Johnson!

How often do you run into this?

Typically, when I am in the mood for fun I will have the following skulls going:

Sputnik, Catch, and Envy, occassionally adding GBP, but I often do not have the patience to play through a level that annoys, that being the first half of Arby.

To make it a challenge, I then add Black Eye and then after farting around with those for awhile, getting Assassins and heading to start CS again.

The only times these odd spawns have ever happened is when I have Assassins added to the mix. Very weird, and sends a shiver into places that should not shiver when it happens, you just arent ready for those two spawns early!

  • 12.20.2011 4:44 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

refer to Grumpy1

  • 12.20.2011 4:51 PM PDT


Posted by: womyfts
Has anyone ever found that with certain skull combos active that certain sequences happen out of order or at the wrong time?

Normally, with no skulls:

During CS, the spawn at the end of the first hanger battle does not take place until all of the covies in the first hanger are dead.

The last two times I have had multiple skulls going I have had that door open and the covies spawn while I still had 2 elites alive. I had Assassins as one of the skulls going at the time.

During Outskirts, the Hunter spawn at the end of the initial courtyard battle normally does not occur until all of the covie spawns have been put to rest.

Today, and several times before, with Assassins going (among others) I had that Hunter arrival while I still had 2 buggers, a jackal sniper and 1 elite still harrassing Johnson!

How often do you run into this?

Typically, when I am in the mood for fun I will have the following skulls going:

Sputnik, Catch, and Envy, occassionally adding GBP, but I often do not have the patience to play through a level that annoys, that being the first half of Arby.

To make it a challenge, I then add Black Eye and then after farting around with those for awhile, getting Assassins and heading to start CS again.

The only times these odd spawns have ever happened is when I have Assassins added to the mix. Very weird, and sends a shiver into places that should not shiver when it happens, you just arent ready for those two spawns early!
Yeah, Assassins, that's a weird one alright. I'll have to keep a lookout for the spawn thing, it did happen to me once at the first Hunter fight on OS but I didn't know what happened because all skulls were lit.

Black Eye is a checkpoint killer imo. Xlax007 and I used to talk about it, most of the regular CP's were gone, especially on Gravemind.

It seems like Mythic will make Elites charge you more but idk about that one.

That's all I can think of for now.

  • 12.20.2011 5:10 PM PDT

I love the Sputnik Skull.

It's awesome.

  • 12.20.2011 7:22 PM PDT


Posted by: HundredJono
I love the Sputnik Skull.

It's awesome.

Indeed.

Sputnik + Metropolis = Awesome possum fun.

  • 12.20.2011 8:00 PM PDT

Yes, I AM just that awesome.

Does the Assassins' skull even have an effect? Or am I thinking about Angry?

  • 12.20.2011 8:35 PM PDT


Posted by: BouncedMr happy
Does the Assassins' skull even have an effect? Or am I thinking about Angry?
Assassins is a permanently cloaking skull.

Angry makes AI shoot faster, maybe you are thinking of the Armory skull (unnamed).

  • 12.20.2011 8:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: womyfts
How often do you run into this?

The only times these odd spawns have ever happened is when I have Assassins added to the mix. Very weird, and sends a shiver into places that should not shiver when it happens, you just arent ready for those two spawns early!
It happened in my featured 1st hangar battle. I had 1 hangar Elite remaining and then blam, the door blows up!

If what you say is correct, Assassins skull seems to be the culprit. Because I tested the first hangar multiple times with Assassins turned off and it never occurred. I think this also happens in the second hangar, where I got the black bars and Priority Shift to come up when I had 1 Elite left (the dual wielder might I add).

Posted by: Grumpy1

Black Eye is a checkpoint killer imo. Xlax007 and I used to talk about it, most of the regular CP's were gone, especially on Gravemind.
Please don't tell me this is true! On second thought, I have never managed to get the cp for the second hangar. If I turn on and off Black Eye with a dev trainer, then I might be able to get it.

  • 12.21.2011 12:22 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: Grumpy1

Black Eye is a checkpoint killer imo. Xlax007 and I used to talk about it, most of the regular CP's were gone, especially on Gravemind.
Please don't tell me this is true! On second thought, I have never managed to get the cp for the second hangar. If I turn on and off Black Eye with a dev trainer, then I might be able to get it.
Yup, my guess is you'll get it. Some levels are worse than others and Gravemind comes to mind as the worst. It always seems like the CP that you don't get are the CP's needed the most but maybe that's just a koinkidink.

[Edited on 12.21.2011 12:45 AM PST]

  • 12.21.2011 12:38 AM PDT

Yes, I AM just that awesome.

Posted by: Grumpy1

Posted by: BouncedMr happy
Does the Assassins' skull even have an effect? Or am I thinking about Angry?
Assassins is a permanently cloaking skull.

Angry makes AI shoot faster, maybe you are thinking of the Armory skull (unnamed).
Okay, I think I was thinking about a skull that either doesn't have an effect or that wasn't found until a couple of years ago. And I believe Whuppapotomas' effect is that it makes the AI smarter.

  • 12.21.2011 7:35 AM PDT

On Legendary with Mythic on, some enemy's will fly. On Outskirts I had 18 Marines firing at the waves of Elites coming because of the IWHBYD skull. The bullets hit so fast and furious that several Elites got launched out of the map. On Oracle, the sucky heads will launch half-jaw up to the ceiling.

  • 12.22.2011 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: Grumpy1
On Legendary with Mythic on, some enemy's will fly. On Outskirts I had 18 Marines firing at the waves of Elites coming because of the IWHBYD skull. The bullets hit so fast and furious that several Elites got launched out of the map. On Oracle, the sucky heads will launch half-jaw up to the ceiling.
Holy sh-!! I thought you needed Sputnik to move Elites with gun fire.

But I think the half jaws thing always happens when he's unshielded.

  • 12.22.2011 6:19 PM PDT

OK, here's something odd even though it has nothing to do with skulls. On QZ at the Gondola ride, if you jump up and wedge yourself (not standing up) your reticle will not have aim assist. In fact, what is strange is that it has exactly the opposite effect. You cannot put the reticle on the target for more than a split second and then your reticle gets pushed off-target. Really weird, normally the aim assist is like a magnet when it attracts but the opposite is also true in that the reticle will be repelled by the target.

Has anyone ever noticed this in any level?

On the platform of the Gondola there are two supports for the upper part of the Gondola and they are kinda angled upward. Just get up and walk up as far as you can and crouch to get wedged. Let go of crouch and look at the enemies, your reticle will aim anywhere you want except at an enemy. Try it, it's weird.

  • 12.28.2011 1:30 AM PDT

Lol, I just realized last night that Envy will nullify the flashlight on MC. Heh, I always play with Blind and we all know that it nullifies the flashlight but while playing without Blind but with Envy on, the flashlight didn't work.

Is this common knowledge?

  • 12.31.2011 10:04 AM PDT
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Grumpy, welcome to the party. I got annoyed alot the first time I got Envy, since I wanted the flashlight for something I cannot remember, and I went and cloaked.......The real bummer is that I was recently looking for the REX in the tower that you have to grenade jump over to on Regret (where the jackal sniper(s) are) and I had envy active. I got over there, went around to where it was supposed to be, and...........NO DAMN FLASHLIGHT! So much for seeing that egg.......for a while anyway, till I grow tired of this current skull combo...

  • 12.31.2011 10:08 AM PDT


Posted by: womyfts
Grumpy, welcome to the party. I got annoyed alot the first time I got Envy, since I wanted the flashlight for something I cannot remember, and I went and cloaked.......The real bummer is that I was recently looking for the REX in the tower that you have to grenade jump over to on Regret (where the jackal sniper(s) are) and I had envy active. I got over there, went around to where it was supposed to be, and...........NO DAMN FLASHLIGHT! So much for seeing that egg.......for a while anyway, till I grow tired of this current skull combo...
You mean HIBEN?

i had the tut done on OS for all the vehicle and Marine collection (I had 15 marines and could have had about 26 Ghosts and 6 hogs and then I realized that in my editing I had mistakenly taken out the most important Hog (at the tunnel entrance) so I trashed the whole thing.

I'm redoing it now.

Lol, I just did the run for the IWHBYD skull 8 times and then looked to make sure I was on Legendary...I was not.

[Edited on 12.31.2011 12:04 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2011 10:41 AM PDT
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Another unique thing happened last night as I was attempting my CS no die run with my current skull combo (Sputnik, Thunderstorm, Envy, Catch, Assassins, Black Eye).

After the initial boarding craft battle, there is another machine gun turret at the bottom of the stairs in the next area. Normally it is manned by a live, or having been killed now dead marine. The last three times I have made it that far without dying it has had either a cloaked grunt or elite on it! That marine using it initially gets pasted since he doesnt shoot at cloaked covies, and most often it is then unmanned. But playing for no deaths allows more time to pass between when that marine dies and when all of the covies in that area have been terminated. That extra time allows for one of them to man it. Boy, talk about having an eye-opening experience first time you round that corner and get opened up on! The following times I was ready for the possibility and envied up before rounding the corner to make sure I knew what was up. It is very funny to watch Johnson try to dodge that machine gun fire, the times I let him dance a while before taking out the gunner. Funny Stuff!

I wish I had a way to record, I have had some dialogue I have never heard before come from Stacker in the opening initial battle, and some of the cries and wails from Johnson as he gets hacked on by sword elites is priceless, and I had never heard before. Unfortunately it was almost 4am in the morning when I was getting this stuff and I cant recall -blam!- about it, other than I had never heard some of it before. I did find that there is alot a soda machine can do to block and stack up the covie advances. I am perfecting some locations for that unit in the initial battle, moving it from the location next to the shorty stairs to a spot between the nearest two pillar units, and laying on it side. It is a avery effective way to channel the grunts, which helps keep marines alive for another 15 seconds, ha!

  • 01.01.2012 12:34 PM PDT


Posted by: womyfts
Another unique thing happened last night as I was attempting my CS no die run with my current skull combo (Sputnik, Thunderstorm, Envy, Catch, Assassins, Black Eye).

After the initial boarding craft battle, there is another machine gun turret at the bottom of the stairs in the next area. Normally it is manned by a live, or having been killed now dead marine. The last three times I have made it that far without dying it has had either a cloaked grunt or elite on it! That marine using it initially gets pasted since he doesnt shoot at cloaked covies, and most often it is then unmanned. But playing for no deaths allows more time to pass between when that marine dies and when all of the covies in that area have been terminated. That extra time allows for one of them to man it. Boy, talk about having an eye-opening experience first time you round that corner and get opened up on! The following times I was ready for the possibility and envied up before rounding the corner to make sure I knew what was up. It is very funny to watch Johnson try to dodge that machine gun fire, the times I let him dance a while before taking out the gunner. Funny Stuff!

I wish I had a way to record, I have had some dialogue I have never heard before come from Stacker in the opening initial battle, and some of the cries and wails from Johnson as he gets hacked on by sword elites is priceless, and I had never heard before. Unfortunately it was almost 4am in the morning when I was getting this stuff and I cant recall -blam!- about it, other than I had never heard some of it before. I did find that there is alot a soda machine can do to block and stack up the covie advances. I am perfecting some locations for that unit in the initial battle, moving it from the location next to the shorty stairs to a spot between the nearest two pillar units, and laying on it side. It is a avery effective way to channel the grunts, which helps keep marines alive for another 15 seconds, ha!
Lol, yes, I've had that turret manned by
a grunt and or Elite.

Oddly, I was playing OS last night and I kept hearing Stacker say things I had never heard before, very strange.

That soda machine once knocked Johnson through that door, just before the turret. Heh, when I went around he was already fighting.

  • 01.01.2012 3:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: womyfts
Unfortunately it was almost 4am in the morning when I was getting this stuff and I cant recall -blam!- about it, other than I had never heard some of it before. I did find that there is alot a soda machine can do to block and stack up the covie advances. I am perfecting some locations for that unit in the initial battle, moving it from the location next to the shorty stairs to a spot between the nearest two pillar units, and laying on it side. It is a avery effective way to channel the grunts, which helps keep marines alive for another 15 seconds, ha!
Now that is a lot of dedication!!

  • 01.01.2012 11:20 PM PDT

I learned several things about the OS IWHBYD skull in the last several days.

One is that the hallowed sniper alley checkpoint can be changed or rendered non-existent but the AI play out as usual. The CP there has nothing to do with the 1 in 7 randomiser (coined by SG), it's only the lz that counts. If you arrange a CP to happen just a few feet from where the sniper alley CP is, it screws up that CP. Sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesn't and if it doesn't come, you do not get one there, it will go back to the other one I installed behind it. That makes it easy for reverting.

So what I did was to get the sword and if I spawn sniper alley AI and then delay the CP's that you get, I get the skull every time, at least with the save I have. With the same save, if I don't delay those CP's, the skull never appeared in the 15 or so times I tried.

The good news is if you get a CP just behind the sniper alley CP, you can revert back to it if the skull does not appear. You just do it over until it appears. However, I'm semi-convinced that if you delay up to the skull room you will get the skull.

I will qualify that by saying it works on the save I have but another save may not work that way. I've made a few profiles just so I can see if it works on others.

Also, as soon as the skull spawns, I either lose the 2 Marines that spawn at the HZ steps or I lose the 3 Marines back at the Pelican. It's just like the Elites at the beginning of QZ, kill them and 3 appear later, let them live and you get none later.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 5:28 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 5:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Grumpy1
The CP there has nothing to do with the 1 in 7 randomiser (coined by SG), it's only the lz that counts.
I got it from Blink's website actually.

Posted by: Grumpy1
If you arrange a CP to happen just a few feet from where the sniper alley CP is, it screws up that CP. Sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesn't and if it doesn't come, you do not get one there, it will go back to the other one I installed behind it. That makes it easy for reverting.

So what I did was to get the sword and if I spawn sniper alley AI and then delay the CP's that you get, I get the skull every time, at least with the save I have. With the same save, if I don't delay those CP's, the skull never appeared in the 15 or so times I tried.

The good news is if you get a CP just behind the sniper alley CP, you can revert back to it if the skull does not appear. You just do it over until it appears. However, I'm semi-convinced that if you delay up to the skull room you will get the skull.

I will qualify that by saying it works on the save I have but another save may not work that way. I've made a few profiles just so I can see if it works on others.

Also, as soon as the skull spawns, I either lose the 2 Marines that spawn at the HZ steps or I lose the 3 Marines back at the Pelican. It's just like the Elites at the beginning of QZ, kill them and 3 appear later, let them live and you get none later.
*prepares note taking*

  • 01.03.2012 12:39 AM PDT

I just got a killer save on the OS collection thing. The save has:

23 Ghosts (there are 6 more in the last part of the tunnel)
6 Hogs
17 marines (I lost 3 when I spawned the skull)
All are close to the IWHBYD courtyard

Killer

I'll try for the 'no kill' win tonight. Possibly by tomorrow we'll have 28 pissed off Elites added to that list roaming about.

Edit: One thing about saving from deloading the 2 Marines that spawn at HZ. For the xbox when the IWHBYD skull is spawned they deload. There may be a way to save them that I haven't tried.

Before spawning the skull:
Use SG's method and spawn the 2 Marines at HZ
Go get Hog and give them a ride (keeps them from deloading)
Launch Hog up to the broken freeway bridge
Drop down and give the 3 Pelican Marines a short ride
Spawn the skull and see if all survive

Edit again: I almost rage-quit. I'd forgotten that I had not saved the 6th Hog yet so I went back to get it. It always spawns by running on foot, or so I thought on this save. It did not so I went and got a Ghost to see if the last Hog spawned and it did not. Just before the rage-quit I went back and got a Hog and took it down to see and luckily the 6th Hog spawned for me and no AI or vehicles were removed. That was a close one.

Also, no kill means to beat the 28 Elites so that the text shows up and the Elites survive to fight all those Marines in another setting besides the courtyard, lol.

[Edited on 01.03.2012 2:09 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2012 12:37 PM PDT

Crap, I just did my first run for 28 Elites, I probably got almost 3 waves into it and one Elite would not enter a Ghost. So I nudged him and then got in the Ghost hoping to be hijacked. He shot me with a PR and killed me quick, lol.

Vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATrSxkBdeJk

There I was, minding my own beeswax and this thug killed me. Mythic, phooey!

The scale:

Wave...Total Elites per wave...Total Elites

1st........................1..............................1
2nd.......................2..............................3
3rd........................3..............................6
4th........................4..............................10
5th........................5..............................15
6th........................6..............................21
7th........................7..............................28



[Edited on 01.04.2012 12:54 AM PST]

  • 01.03.2012 10:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Grumpy1
I just got a killer save on the OS collection thing. The save has:

23 Ghosts (there are 6 more in the last part of the tunnel)
6 Hogs
17 marines (I lost 3 when I spawned the skull)
All are close to the IWHBYD courtyard

Killer

I'll try for the 'no kill' win tonight. Possibly by tomorrow we'll have 28 pissed off Elites added to that list roaming about.

Edit: One thing about saving from deloading the 2 Marines that spawn at HZ. For the xbox when the IWHBYD skull is spawned they deload. There may be a way to save them that I haven't tried.

Before spawning the skull:
Use SG's method and spawn the 2 Marines at HZ
Go get Hog and give them a ride (keeps them from deloading)
Launch Hog up to the broken freeway bridge
Drop down and give the 3 Pelican Marines a short ride
Spawn the skull and see if all survive

Edit again: I almost rage-quit. I'd forgotten that I had not saved the 6th Hog yet so I went back to get it. It always spawns by running on foot, or so I thought on this save. It did not so I went and got a Ghost to see if the last Hog spawned and it did not. Just before the rage-quit I went back and got a Hog and took it down to see and luckily the 6th Hog spawned for me and no AI or vehicles were removed. That was a close one.

Also, no kill means to beat the 28 Elites so that the text shows up and the Elites survive to fight all those Marines in another setting besides the courtyard, lol.
Very impressive!

Raging? That sucks. I know what's that like. I'll test the marine collection part for you if you want. All I have to do is ensure I spawn the IWHBYD skull.

Close one? What a relief!

Also, concerning Elites refusing to go into the Ghost, do the Elites always enter 1 way into the Ghost or can they enter from either side? I ask because this is the case for Wraiths IIRC.

Did you try boarding 1 of the Ghosts that already had Elites? Maybe multiple Elites can have interest in 1 Ghost.

[Edited on 01.04.2012 2:00 AM PST]

  • 01.04.2012 1:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: Grumpy1
I just got a killer save on the OS collection thing. The save has:

23 Ghosts (there are 6 more in the last part of the tunnel)
6 Hogs
17 marines (I lost 3 when I spawned the skull)
All are close to the IWHBYD courtyard

Killer

I'll try for the 'no kill' win tonight. Possibly by tomorrow we'll have 28 pissed off Elites added to that list roaming about.

Edit: One thing about saving from deloading the 2 Marines that spawn at HZ. For the xbox when the IWHBYD skull is spawned they deload. There may be a way to save them that I haven't tried.

Before spawning the skull:
Use SG's method and spawn the 2 Marines at HZ
Go get Hog and give them a ride (keeps them from deloading)
Launch Hog up to the broken freeway bridge
Drop down and give the 3 Pelican Marines a short ride
Spawn the skull and see if all survive

Edit again: I almost rage-quit. I'd forgotten that I had not saved the 6th Hog yet so I went back to get it. It always spawns by running on foot, or so I thought on this save. It did not so I went and got a Ghost to see if the last Hog spawned and it did not. Just before the rage-quit I went back and got a Hog and took it down to see and luckily the 6th Hog spawned for me and no AI or vehicles were removed. That was a close one.

Also, no kill means to beat the 28 Elites so that the text shows up and the Elites survive to fight all those Marines in another setting besides the courtyard, lol.
Very impressive!

Raging? That sucks. I know what's that like. I'll test the marine collection part for you if you want. All I have to do is ensure I spawn the IWHBYD skull.

Close one? What a relief!

Also, concerning Elites refusing to go into the Ghost, do the Elites always enter 1 way into the Ghost or can they enter from either side? I ask because this is the case for Wraiths IIRC.

Did you try boarding 1 of the Ghosts that already had Elites? Maybe multiple Elites can have interest in 1 Ghost.
Yeah, good ideas, maybe one ghost is good for several Elites. I'll also need to find out if the game still thinks they are dead when you kick them out of a Ghost.

I think they get in on both sides but I've never run an experiment to absolutely say for sure.

Next time I'll board a Ghost further away and have no skulls on except Blind.

  • 01.04.2012 2:43 AM PDT

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