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  • Subject: A question about the ranking system
Subject: A question about the ranking system

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

I've read the pinned thread on the H3 ranking system many times before, so I understand perfectly how it works. However, I was wondering if anyone had a chart that has an approximation of how many games you have to win based on how many games you've played in a playlist. I'd like to know roughly how many games it would take me to reach my 50, but nobody seems to have a chart like this. Is this because it depends so much on teammates' skill level as well as my own, or is it just impossible to ever be certain how many games it will take? I'd say I've played roughly 700 games in Team Slayer, and I have 392 EXP, I think. Any guesses on how long it would take me to rank up? Also, some people have told me that I should just give up on Slayer if I have so much EXP. Is that true? The only other playlist that has a chance is DOubles, which is 43 with 214+ EXP. I dunno if anyone will understand exactly what I want, but I thought it might be a topic of interest.

  • 12.22.2011 8:01 AM PDT

Interesting idea, however creating an accurate chart with that many variables in play would be next to impossible.

If you are a mathematician, with the proper equation you might be able to figure an average of how many games it would take (specifically) you to rank up.

  • 12.22.2011 8:38 AM PDT

nope sorry like lime said, way too many variables to consider.
Unless you're playing the same people over and over (excluding the 4 game lock thing) then you can't get an average. All you can do is look at your opponents, if they haven't lost many games at all, then expect to fly up the ranks if you win, and not go down much if you lose, depending on your record. Having a 1:1 win/loss is probably the best way to go up and down fast, and you have basically that.

  • 12.22.2011 9:21 AM PDT

Posted by: swvjdirector
I understand perfectly how it works.
Apparently not.
:P
Is this because it depends so much on teammates' skill level as well as my own,Yes.
is it just impossible to ever be certain how many games it will take? Also yes.
Any guesses on how long it would take me to rank up?
Nope.
Also, some people have told me that I should just give up on Slayer if I have so much EXP. Is that true? The only other playlist that has a chance is DOubles, which is 43 with 214+ EXP. I dunno if anyone will understand exactly what I want,The more games you have in a playlist, the more difficult it will be to 'rank up' in it. This is because... well, if you've played a bunch of games in a playlist and you're still at that certain rank, the system will be quite sure that you deserve to be at that rank. It'd take some good games to get past that.

  • 12.22.2011 9:50 AM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

Yeah, I wasn't really expecting anything different, but I thought I'd ask. So, will I actually go anywhere if I just keep going win-lose-win-lose every game? I suppose that's when it comes down to the skill of teammates/opponents.

  • 12.22.2011 11:27 AM PDT


Posted by: swvjdirector
Yeah, I wasn't really expecting anything different, but I thought I'd ask. So, will I actually go anywhere if I just keep going win-lose-win-lose every game? I suppose that's when it comes down to the skill of teammates/opponents.
The system does all it can to try and make it so you win half your games and lose half your games... well, more or less. It's trying to give you the most even matchings, you know? So if you're winning half your games, then you're telling it that you are right where you should be.

  • 12.22.2011 11:29 AM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

Okay, here's an idea: WHat if I do some light deranking, 30 losses or so? WOuld that help, or would it just screw over my rank and not affect my speed of ranking up at all? And while we're on the subject, let's say someone could help me with a booster. How many losses would he need for me to go up faster. If he had some insane number, like 4000, 5000, whatever, would that be enough to affect the entire team? Honestly, I find the ranking system fascinating, albeit somewhat frustrating at times. My guess would be that deranking my own account would be pointless, but playing with a booster would probably help me rank up to 50 in, let's say, 40 games if he had 4000 losses. Reasonable? Disagree?

  • 12.22.2011 11:43 AM PDT

Dude.

If you can't get the rank on your own, what good does cheating do you? All that will do is make it so you get your ass kicked in every game. That's no fun. Just roll with whatever you've got. It's not a big deal.
:/

  • 12.22.2011 11:51 AM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."

I think you may have misunderstood me....
I'm not actually planning on doing any of this stuff, I'm just trying to see what different things affect the ranking system in what way. My friend and I started having a conversation about how Halo 4 should have its ranking system, and we though that it could use H3 as a base, but that the system itself needed to be able to pick up on increases in play skill more quickly. I got hooked on the idea, and since MS will never release information on the TrueSkill system, I thought this would be an interesting thread. My original post referred to my in-game stats both out of curiosity and because I wondered if it was possible for me to rank up. I never actually intend to derank, I just wondered how much of an impact it would make depending on the playlist. Also, the system is pretty much foolproof; there's no real way to trick it.

  • 12.22.2011 12:17 PM PDT
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I'm listeni- Oh wait I don't give a -blam!- what you have to say.

If you derank to get a 50 then not only are you retarded, you also care too much and you don't deserve the meaningless number.

  • 12.22.2011 12:37 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: Frasier Crane
If you derank to get a 50 then not only are you retarded, you also care too much and you don't deserve the meaningless number.


Erm.....did you read the above post? I believe I just pointed that I have no intention of deranking.......u mad br00?

  • 12.22.2011 12:42 PM PDT
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I'm listeni- Oh wait I don't give a -blam!- what you have to say.

.

[Edited on 12.22.2011 2:44 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2011 2:42 PM PDT

I run Skirmish!!!


Posted by: swvjdirector

Posted by: Frasier Crane
If you derank to get a 50 then not only are you retarded, you also care too much and you don't deserve the meaningless number.
u mad br00?


and right here is where i lost any interest in asking if you needed a good teammate or help in the game.

you need to get on a win streak to rank up. you will NEVER rank up with that much exp and win/loss every other game

[Edited on 12.22.2011 3:08 PM PST]

  • 12.22.2011 3:06 PM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: II gaped II

Posted by: swvjdirector

Posted by: Frasier Crane
If you derank to get a 50 then not only are you retarded, you also care too much and you don't deserve the meaningless number.
u mad br00?


and right here is where i lost any interest in asking if you needed a good teammate or help in the game.

you need to get on a win streak to rank up. you will NEVER rank up with that much exp and win/loss every other game


Yeah, I'm assuming that the higherthe win streak, the faster my rank goes up overall, too. How many in a row is considered good? 10, 20? I usually have trouble even winning 5 straight, so I may have trouble even getting a streak that high.

  • 12.22.2011 4:41 PM PDT

True Skill has locked in place. Because your win lose is say 1:1 you won't go down but you won't go up. But the biggest problem is that because you've played so many games and haven't broken out of that cycle it makes even harder to level up. You'll either have to go on a big streak to level up now or you'll have to increase your W:L. 4:1 would probably level you. However if you were on a new account and you kept say a 2:1 or 3:1 W:L you would go up faster than you are now. But that is just a comparison, because on your current account you have been locked in place by true skill the road to level will be slow.

Essentially if you had leveled up really fast from the beginning and maintained a decent W:L then you would be fine. But the sheer amount of games you've played with a constant 1:1 W:L has you stuck in the mud.

  • 12.22.2011 7:24 PM PDT

I run Skirmish!!!


Posted by: swvjdirector

Posted by: II gaped II

Posted by: swvjdirector

Posted by: Frasier Crane
If you derank to get a 50 then not only are you retarded, you also care too much and you don't deserve the meaningless number.
u mad br00?


and right here is where i lost any interest in asking if you needed a good teammate or help in the game.

you need to get on a win streak to rank up. you will NEVER rank up with that much exp and win/loss every other game


Yeah, I'm assuming that the higherthe win streak, the faster my rank goes up overall, too. How many in a row is considered good? 10, 20? I usually have trouble even winning 5 straight, so I may have trouble even getting a streak that high.

with that many losses and that much exp in one playlist, you would need to win probably 7-10 in a row, if not more...

my buddy who is a force colonel won 8 in a row in TS before going from a 43-44 with 200exp and only under 25 losses in the playlist

  • 12.22.2011 8:26 PM PDT

derp

I'm pretty sure that Bungie has an extremely complicated algorithm that they use to determine what your skill level should be. Trying to figure it out on your own is pretty much impossible.

If you're consistently winning more games than you lose, you should EVENTUALLY rank up. People need to understand that sometimes it takes a while to move from one rank to the next.

[Edited on 12.23.2011 2:08 AM PST]

  • 12.23.2011 2:07 AM PDT

I think my account had a worse record than yours OP and I managed to get a 50, mine took 100 wins out of 110 games searching two's to go from 46 - 50 it took something ridiculous like 60 wins to go from 46-47 but once I got over that bump the rank ups were much quicker, I think the 49-50 one was only 7 straight or so. Just keep at it, I know its difficult but its 100% possible for you to rank up.

  • 12.23.2011 2:48 AM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: Ty Spartan007
I think my account had a worse record than yours OP and I managed to get a 50, mine took 100 wins out of 110 games searching two's to go from 46 - 50 it took something ridiculous like 60 wins to go from 46-47 but once I got over that bump the rank ups were much quicker, I think the 49-50 one was only 7 straight or so. Just keep at it, I know its difficult but its 100% possible for you to rank up.


Yeah, I'll just have to reach a really high win streak at first if I want to go anywhere. I have plenty of teammates though, so hopefully I can get one to help me every day. I've noticed that it takes me a long time to pass certain skill points, like 47. I've played, according to metahalo, 80 games on my 47. I've hit 48 before, but since that's not my current skill it doesn't show it. I won 30 and lost 40. How did I even reach 48 in the first place with such an awful W/L ratio? I usually move up much faster on fresh skill points, like if I got my 49. Is this because the TrueSkill also takes into account the number of games I've played on each individual skill point? It will be much easier to rank up once I reach 48 if that is true. Basically, from what everyone's been telling me, if I get a high win streak, all my subsequent ranks will be easier to level, because the system believes that I may have improved.

  • 12.23.2011 6:34 AM PDT

Breaking barriers.

A chart like this doesn't exist due the the incredibly high variance in your trueskill values in comparison to others around you and the inability to visiually see your mu and sigma.

After a certain point in time, youget a feel for how many "even" net wins it should take to rank up.

  • 12.23.2011 6:45 AM PDT

"What are we holding on to, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."


Posted by: anahum
A chart like this doesn't exist due the the incredibly high variance in your trueskill values in comparison to others around you and the inability to visiually see your mu and sigma.

After a certain point in time, youget a feel for how many "even" net wins it should take to rank up.


Using information from MetaHalo, you can find how many games you've played in each playlist, which at least helps give some idea of how many games need to be won. It would be awesome if it were possible to view Mu and Sigma. Out of curiosity, was there a reason that wasn't included? My guess would be that it simply didn't seem necessary. So here's another question: Why are so many people under the impression that quitting reduces the amount of Mu lost? It doesn't. It still counts as a straight-up loss against the enemy team. Was this not the case at some point, and it was then patched? I would be interested to at least seethe Halo version of the TrueSkill, since it's undoubtedly one of the most unique ranking systems I've seen in a shooter.

  • 12.23.2011 9:09 AM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

H3 MM warrior

Reach S7, 8 and 9 arena warrior.

H4 MM legend

Theoretically I could make that chart, but I would need a bit of math help. Also j would explain everything you asked, but I have to use an iPod, and typing sucks on it.

  • 12.23.2011 11:14 PM PDT
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All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Posted by: burritosenior
Dude.

If you can't get the rank on your own, what good does cheating do you? All that will do is make it so you get your ass kicked in every game. That's no fun. Just roll with whatever you've got. It's not a big deal.
:/

  • 12.24.2011 8:47 AM PDT