Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: The best heroes aren't the most powerful.
  • Subject: The best heroes aren't the most powerful.
Subject: The best heroes aren't the most powerful.

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

I think some people have been missing the entire point of halo heroes/heroes in general.

The ones that are supposed to be the most powerul are the villains... Heroes are the people that despite being the weakest win for fighting for good and justice.

Masterchief isn't the most powerful spartan in any category, The arbiter had an obsolete armor, the rookie was the least experienced ODST on his squad AND Buck never had any augmentation and you know what?

Those men were much better than the "most powerful". Becuase they gave the very best to overcome evil/fight for what they believed.

1.-The arbiter did much more than half jaw and the latter was power powerful.

2.-The chief saved the galaxy from the flood and the halos while the "best spartans" were dead or trapped in a magic sphere with halsey. The chief spent all his life beating people more powerful than he could ever be.

3.-The rookie survived being alone in a covenant occupied city while Buck acomplished much more than many spartans (ex jun).


I don't care how much powerful Linda/curt/etc were. The truth is that the men that made the difference in halo were the ones that fought with their hearts and gave everything they had simply as that.If you honestly think that power is everything I seriousy doubt you know what is to be a hero.

Being a hero is much more than power levels. Is not what power they have but how the use that power that makes them true heroes.

tl:DR? I am sorry for the kind of education you received.



[Edited on 12.23.2011 3:08 PM PST]

  • 12.23.2011 3:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Thus is why there may be heroes on either side of a war.

I do agree with your assessment here. It is not something I normally think about, however my conjecture would be almost synonymous with yours.

One other thing I would like to bring up about heroes in Halo that people don't seem to get is this:

Normal heroes tend to teach great lessons such as patience, sacrifice, or kindness. In Halo, the point is to teach against the Heroes' traits.

Ex 1) Chief is an allegory to Spartan society, which was an oligarchical affiliation that was known for its immense ranks of brazen soldiers and its low intellectual yield.

True, Sparta had some great characteristics such as courage, obedience, and organization, but lacked liberty, change, and art.

In terms of Halo, the game makes you feel as if chief played for the best intent of the humans, but that's the trick. YOU are the one who plays, thus imposing your own values on him. Why do you do this? Because to you, he lacks the good intent and charictaristics that you maintain.

Think deeper. Chief wished for none of the things. He is almost a robot: He has mechanical parts, a mechanical mind, and for all intents and purposes, a mechanical programming.

It shows that brave brazen soldiers have their duty, and are able to accomplish greatness, but are useless in a peaceful society, other than to keep its security.

EX 2) The arbiter is fighting not for his people, or for the brutal onslaught the Brutes waged upon him, or even because of honor. While each of these is a factor to some extent, the Arbiter fights primarily because he is a apparition of life.

More than the Chief, the Arbiter encourages good attributes to an extent, however he too is promoting vengeance and brash behavior.

So

Basically, they had some lack of purpose that had them fighting to the best of their ability. Sure, they may not be the toughest, but they were the loneliest, which prompts jealousy and transforms them into war machines.

While you were correct in such regard, I fail to understand what made you think they both fight for what they believe. To a closed extent: they believed in their side of the war. Expanding however, you will see that they had a lack of belief which lead to their unraveling carnage.

  • 12.23.2011 3:41 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The Gravemind is more heroic than Chief.

  • 12.23.2011 3:46 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

An inteligent reponse? I must be dreaming!

I disagree in that chief is an allegory is perceived flatness is a direct consequence of being an escapist character. The player must see himself as him and as such nothing is developed.

It doesn't mean he is like that as the books and even the new remlaimer trilogy have/will develop him more. Chief isn't a robot he is a person. If anyone is an allegory of that is Emile as other people have said.

Even in halo 3 the last wish MC had in the new alpha halo was simply to go home with everyone safe.

The arbiter became a hero the moment he abandoned his silly religion and fought for what was right not his side of the war to be sure.

Violence is a necessity in the halo universe as reason with the covenant or speciallty the flood wasn't an option.


Posted by: CmdrScott1701
Thus is why there may be heroes on either side of a war.

I do agree with your assessment here. It is not something I normally think about, however my conjecture would be almost synonymous with yours.

One other thing I would like to bring up about heroes in Halo that people don't seem to get is this:

Normal heroes tend to teach great lessons such as patience, sacrifice, or kindness. In Halo, the point is to teach against the Heroes' traits.

Ex 1) Chief is an allegory to Spartan society, which was an oligarchical affiliation that was known for its immense ranks of brazen soldiers and its low intellectual yield.

True, Sparta had some great characteristics such as courage, obedience, and organization, but lacked liberty, change, and art.

In terms of Halo, the game makes you feel as if chief played for the best intent of the humans, but that's the trick. YOU are the one who plays, thus imposing your own values on him. Why do you do this? Because to you, he lacks the good intent and charictaristics that you maintain.

Think deeper. Chief wished for none of the things. He is almost a robot: He has mechanical parts, a mechanical mind, and for all intents and purposes, a mechanical programming.

It shows that brave brazen soldiers have their duty, and are able to accomplish greatness, but are useless in a peaceful society, other than to keep its security.

EX 2) The arbiter is fighting not for his people, or for the brutal onslaught the Brutes waged upon him, or even because of honor. While each of these is a factor to some extent, the Arbiter fights primarily because he is a apparition of life.

More than the Chief, the Arbiter encourages good attributes to an extent, however he too is promoting vengeance and brash behavior.

So

Basically, they had some lack of purpose that had them fighting to the best of their ability. Sure, they may not be the toughest, but they were the loneliest, which prompts jealousy and transforms them into war machines.

While you were correct in such regard, I fail to understand what made you think they both fight for what they believe. To a closed extent: they believed in their side of the war. Expanding however, you will see that they had a lack of belief which lead to their unraveling carnage.

  • 12.23.2011 3:58 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: BestSpartan117
The ones that are supposed to be the most powerul are the villains... Heroes are the people that despite being the weakest win for fighting for good and justice.

This is true, but I would not say that this was the sole qualifier nor would I say that the two are mutually exclusive. What you say below gives an example of what I mean:

Being a hero is much more than power levels. Is not what power they have but how the use that power that makes them true heroes.
This I agree with more, personally. There are others "more powerful" than Chief, Arbiter, etc but they are still Hero's as they choose to use these abilities for some good.

Posted by: BestSpartan117
1.-The arbiter did much more than half jaw and the latter was power powerful.

I would not say that an Arbiter had less power and influence than a Spec-Ops commander, but my point above applies here. Just because he might be "more powerful" does not mean that he is unworthy of merit.

  • 12.23.2011 3:58 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Great post I agree, I guess we can all agree in that power is irrelvant to how great a hero is isn't it?
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: BestSpartan117
The ones that are supposed to be the most powerul are the villains... Heroes are the people that despite being the weakest win for fighting for good and justice.

This is true, but I would not say that this was the sole qualifier nor would I say that the two are mutually exclusive. What you say below gives an example of what I mean:

Being a hero is much more than power levels. Is not what power they have but how the use that power that makes them true heroes.
This I agree with more, personally. There are others "more powerful" than Chief, Arbiter, etc but they are still Hero's as they choose to use these abilities for some good.

Posted by: BestSpartan117
1.-The arbiter did much more than half jaw and the latter was power powerful.

I would not say that an Arbiter had less power and influence than a Spec-Ops commander, but my point above applies here. Just because he might be "more powerful" does not mean that he is unworthy of merit.

  • 12.23.2011 6:02 PM PDT

I am going disagree with you, but agree on another point.

Personally, I do not judge a character by their moral righteousness or their power, but by how interesting a character they are. For instance, my favourite character from anything, ever, is Light Yagami from Death Note; certainly not a hero in any sense of the word (he was an egotistical, borderline-insane man with a god complex who used the titular Death Note to kill anyone he viewed as evil), but if nothing else, he had a ridiculous amount of character depth.

Also, you seem to, again, be under the impression that Right Makes Might - in other terms, the more a 'hero' the person is, the more powerful they are. This is by no means true, as history has shown us time and time again.

  • 12.23.2011 6:30 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Light Yagami is a very interesting character but as you said not a hero in any sense. I certainly would never root for him but that's just me

Light is just an escapist character meant to fulfill desire of having power at his core. Mainly the power of beauty inteligence and of course the power over life and death

Light is a great protagonist but not a hero. he was a villain portagonist.

I have personal beliefs but I will simply say this the darkness can't stand the light as history as shown too.

This world would be anything without the good people that made a difference and most of them weren't super powerful politicians, or muscular people.

Jesus Christ, Martin luther king, ghandi, David, etc...

Thanks for your inteligent response regardless.

Posted by: Zero Reaper
I am going disagree with you, but agree on another point.

Personally, I do not judge a character by their moral righteousness or their power, but by how interesting a character they are. For instance, my favourite character from anything, ever, is Light Yagami from Death Note; certainly not a hero in any sense of the word (he was an egotistical, borderline-insane man with a god complex who used the titular Death Note to kill anyone he viewed as evil), but if nothing else, he had a ridiculous amount of character depth.

Also, you seem to, again, be under the impression that Right Makes Might - in other terms, the more a 'hero' the person is, the more powerful they are. This is by no means true, as history has shown us time and time again.


[Edited on 12.23.2011 7:55 PM PST]

  • 12.23.2011 7:26 PM PDT


Posted by: BestSpartan117
Light Yagami is a very interesting character but as you said not a hero in any sense. I certainly would never root for him but that's just me

Light is just an escapist character meant to fulfill desire of having power at his core. Mainly the power of beauty inteligence and of course the power over life and death

Light is a great protagonist but not a hero. he was a villain portagonist.

I have personal beliefs but I will simply say this the darkness can't stand the light as history as shown too.

This world would be anything without the good people that made a difference and most of them weren't super powerful politicians, or muscular people.

Jesus Christ, Martin luther king, ghandi, David, etc...

Thanks for your inteligent response regardless.


Well, whether one roots for Light or not is very much determined by one's own ideals; I am a very cynical person, and thus, believe him to be in the right. Many would disagree.

And, as you said, he is a Villain Protagonist. That is undeniable.

Also, on the contrary, darkness can, and frequently does, overwhelm the light. But darkness can achieve good too; Ivan The Terrible, for instance, solved all crime in his kingdom by killing everyone who ever committed a crime, regardless of who they were and what their crime was. You may argue that this is cruel and evil, but the ends were undeniably effective, and Russia under his rule achieved the lowest crime rate in history. Put simply, regardless of whether someone is right or wrong, they can achieve a good end by doing the wrong thing (I am presently writing a novel on this very subject).

Additionally, the good people are merely those who achieved influence; likewise, many evil people have achieved great influence. Adolf Hitler, for instance, is widely accepted as being the modern definition of a Complete Monster, but he was an incredibly intelligent and charismatic man, much like all those people you just listed (note: I am an atheist, and do not believe that religious figures actually had the will of god on their side; they were just ordinary people doing the right thing).

Also, thankyou for complimenting me. As a writer who specialises in well-intentioned extremists and borderline-villain protagonists as well as someone who reads a great deal of philosophy, I possess a great interest in human morality. It's always nice to see someone who shares my interest.

  • 12.24.2011 1:09 AM PDT