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  • Subject: The old pistol? Why does everyone want it?
Subject: The old pistol? Why does everyone want it?
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I posted this in a thread by itself but it may get more play here, but first I'll state my opinion on the direct topic at hand.

The h2 BR was designed to the replacement for the h1 pistol. Every gun in halo 2 weakened over it's h1 counterpart, the pistol-BR conversion was no exception. The gun takes over 3 times as long to kill a single opponent (1.5 seconds vs near 1/2 a second) and it's effective range is crippled as well. A good pistoler in h1 could hit across heh and 3sk an opponent. In halo 2, even on lan, 4sking from base to base on MIDSHIP is pushing the limits of it's range. Frankly, some people like the "longer" battles the h2 BR causes, but for me the extra length is shallow. Here's all the slower killing speed causes (in my experience)

1.Stolen kills- players run away from you, getting drilled the entire time because your shooting perfectly and they suck, but due to the guns inability to kill, they get stolen. A faster kill speed rewards marksmanship and seperates the men from the boys.

2. 2v1, you can'twin. Just like it sounds. If you got the drop on 2 good people in halo 1, it was still possible to beat both of them. A 3sk would drop the first guy before either adversary knew what happened, leaving you with an even ground fight with his partner. Try that in h2, you shoot maybe 2x before they mow you down. Again, the kill speed seperates the men from the boys.

The third point I'd like to make is that while BR fights may take longer, that doesn't always make them more exciting. Even if my first 2 points don't happen (stolen kill/double team), you still have halo 2's first shot wins gameplay. Sure you may have 1 second to shoot back, but if you're going to die anyway, who cares? H1 fights were quick and exhilirating, you never knew who was going to win until it was over, mistakes were common, even at high


That's how I'm responding to the direct argument at hand. WIth that said, here's my "grand solution" for halo 3's MP balance.
(see next post)

  • 05.10.2006 9:43 PM PDT
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Every gun has an opening sequence before it can be fired, just as you pull it out/ pick it up. Stronger weapons take a bit longer. This fixes numerous issues, like the noob combo, sword, and even the sniper as a close range weapon (you can't no-scope and then BR someone). Many people want the PP to have a period where it can’t be switched off while overheating, my solution is superior to that, IMO because it makes it more universal with every gun, the BR would cause the shot delay. The only real noob combo would be PP/Pistol, which honestly makes a lot of sense. Since you’re DW you can’t throw nades and aiming the pistol is fairly hard, and only works against 1 target. Remember, this period is very short. Like when you pull out a shotgun in halo 1 or 2, you can’t just fire right away. Or how the h1 rocket launcher spun in the barrel, stronger guns take longer. The BR would be around the h1 pistol’s no-fire time.

2.Auto-aim is now a toggle able option, strong is like h2 is now, medium is stronger than h1 weaker than h2, weak is like halo 1. It’s just in one of the game type setup screens when you make custom game types. Sweep sniping and magnetic bullets are what is affected. So a gun that requires you to lead your target won’t require it hardly at all if you play heavy aa settings. This stops lan games from being ruined by the high auto-aim, while still making the game playable online. Everyone’s happy!

3.You can now double melee. If you hit the melee button followed by one of the 360’s top triggers and then the melee again with the correct timing you will melee 2x very quickly, about the same speed as medium speed a h1 double melee. (h1 pistol double melee is about fast enough) It wont’ kill unless you were moving when you hit your opponent. You also no longer lunge with the melee’s but their range is slightly longer than in halo 2 around the same range as the halo 1 melees.

4. The 4th and most important point: KILL SPEED! Everything revolves around the BR, which now kills as fast as the h1 pistol, keep that in mind as you review this. No longer will their be 2-3 second firefights followed by one guy running away. The DW’s are powered up as well.

Battle Rifle: The Battle Rifle will similar to the original halo 1 pistol. It will be a 4sk weapon, but will fire 1/3 faster than the halo 1 pistol, giving it the same kill speed. A 16 bullet clip will give it allow it to eliminate 4 people before reload is required. The scope will be a 3x zoom to allow easier combat of snipers while helping to stop people from zooming in at closer ranges. The gun won’t have the accuracy of the BR in the respect that the bullets won’t always hit in the center of the cursor, think back to the halo 1 pistol for a good reference. The effective range would also be similar to the pistol in the respect that it hits nearly anywhere as long as you lead the target. Their will not be a 3 shot burst in any mode. Most real life soldiers refrain from the 3 shot burst anyway because it wastes ammunition and isn’t as accurate.

Sniper Rifle: The gun should nearly the same as it’s halo 2 counterpart except that true ballistics should be reintroduced (piercing) and you may have to lead a long range, depending on your game types auto-aim setting.

Magnum: The magnums should be a mixture of halo 1.1 and 1.0. The guns would be a 10sk firing at it's current speed. Making it a very fast kill as a DW, but with the some of the lowest magnetism in the game, it’ll be quite difficult to use.


SMG: Dual SMG‘s should be the power of a h1 AR so 1 SMG is half that, a bit more powerful than the SMG we have now, with greatly increased range (in comparison the h2 SMG, true range is ARish) This means that a DW can beat just about anything that he’s facing assuming he gets the drop on them, which is the entire point of that type of close range combat anyway.

Rocket: The rocket should maintain it’s h2 abilities. The only change I can see would be only allowing the lock on feature to work when zoomed in and a slightly increased damage radius, since MC jumps so high now, you really can’t afford to always shoot 2.

Fragmentation Grenades: They should be nearly the same as it’s v1.1 counterpart except they have a bit more of a explosion radius (in between h1 and h2) and light vehicles should die if a grenade hits them dead on. (ghost, spectre, hog,)

Carbine: The carbine should be similar to the halo 2 gun, but more powerful to keep up with the new BR. It should slower than the BR, at h1 pistol speed, giving it a 3sk. The accuracy should be similar to that of the BR as well, with a 3x scope.

Needler: The needler should stay about the same as it is in h2. Perhaps a bit more homing, but I believe the gun cannot be both truly useable and not cheap at the same time. If it homes enough to be effective it’s broken since it requires little to no aiming for an easy kill. I guess this one would just have to be play tested.

Plasma Rifle: The plasma rifle should be very similar to it’s halo 2 counterpart. Perhaps a bit stronger freeze effect in regards to movement speed, but still no cursor freeze.

Plasma Pistol: The plasma pistol is the covenant weapon with the biggest need for a change. The overcharge shot should still break any shielding instantly. The single shot will get the greatest overhaul. The PP should be capable of firing as fast as the person pulling the trigger, just like the halo1 plasma pistol. It should have a very strong freeze effect both in movement and in turning. The semi-automatic nature facilitates aiming, while giving people the halo 1 plasma rifle feel that many players seem to miss in h2. Perfect mix of both worlds. The homing can stay where it is because the guns now kill so fast that by the time you switch guns you’ve already lost, it’s now a true DW weapon, as it was intended to be. The gun will actually be better than it is in h2, in every respect, but due to every other gun getting a boost, it’s much more balanced than the h2 version. My other changes fix most of the “problems” people have with this weapon, treat the sickness, not the symptoms I always say ;)

Brute Shot: Maintains the same overall feel as the h2 v1.1 model. The gun doesn’t really fit in with the halo MP feel, IMO, the game already has all ranges covered, so it’s a filler weapon, good for melee’s though. Just a bit more damage to keep up with the joneses and it’s good to go.

Sword: Just a few changes need to be made here since with every gun killing much faster than in halo 2, it’s nearly balanced as is. First thing it now has an ammo counter, 5 lunges or 10 swings. Secondly you can only lunge while on the ground. Other than that, it’s about balanced. Remember though, you can no longer just pull it out and lunge, you have to go through the opening animation.



Dual Wielding: Duel wielding is one of the biggest changes in h2. It is what, initially, made halo 1 fans so angry about halo 2, it was unbalanced. Below are the list of “good” DW combos, so no, I won’t discuss PR/PP. With them I will give a general description of how the combo should “feel” extensive play testing with good people are the keys to success here.

PR/SMG: The meat and potatoes combo. At a nice close range, this combo is a good match against a near perfect BR. If the DW gets the jump on him, the only way to win should be a very well though out attack plan. A 4sk will be good enough sometimes, but if the DW has anything more than a .2 second advantage, he should probably win. This allows a careful DW to beat a very good opponent. Just the way a AR could in halo 1beat a pistol if he got the jump, only this combo is slightly better as far as DPS goes, if your close. The combo won’t work well outside of maybe 10 feet, 5 feet or less is this combos sweet spot.

PP/SMG: This combo can now be used 2 ways effectively. The freeze charge is a different beast all together. The PP freezing effect could allow this combo to get out of hand quickly. The main thing that needs to be addressed is making sure that you need to be very coordinated to get the PP to maintain a strong freeze on the opponent.

PP/mag: This will be the only remaining “noob combo”. Due to the BR’s opening sequence, the PP/BR combo is now too slow to kill a BR wielder who started shooting as the PP shot was released. Now if someone wants to noob combo they will be forced to use a DW and aim the magnum. If he misses his PP shot, he’s basically screwed, as a he should be. Price you pay for a potentially easy kill with an OS breaker.

SMG/Mag: This combo is a good combination of range and power. It kills very fast just like the PR/SMG, but can fight at ranges of greater than 5 feet, actually around 10 feet. It’ll kill just as quick as a PR/SMG, with longer reach, but the aiming skill required is a bit more. Overall this and dual mags are the strongest combo’s, but they also require the most aim.

Mag/Mag: This combo is one of the faster killers with the longest range. It’s only downfall it that since you can’t spray them around like automatics, you really have to aim well to be effective.




[Edited on 5/10/2006]

  • 05.10.2006 9:45 PM PDT

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we r?

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  • 05.10.2006 9:54 PM PDT

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are u guys all kidding me?!? if the pistol wuz bak, the halo veterans would automatically buy H3. the pistol was the ultimate weapon, sure, it wasent that good a single player weapon, only for the one shot hunter's. But if u mastered the 3 headshot kill in multiplayer, u were a god. the skill wuz mastering that tehnique. i hate saying this, but it's wat made halo multiplaer, halo multiplayer!


PLEASE BUNGIE, PLEASE BRING BAK THE PISTOL LIKE IN H1!!!!!!!

  • 05.10.2006 11:38 PM PDT
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Dont you think they already decided what they're gonna do with the weapons? Or basically which weapons they're already gonna add in the game, so all this complaining is futile?

  • 05.11.2006 12:15 AM PDT
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i don't think the pistol should be brought back.

  • 05.11.2006 12:17 AM PDT
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in halo 1, the pistol was the one thing that lets u survive legendary.
in halo2, the pistol was the only weapon u would use when playing easy.
in halo3 , the pistol should be inbetween.

take out the scope, but leave the design, its nice

  • 05.11.2006 12:21 AM PDT
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"Headshot! Rampage! Killing Spree! You are the Moon Master!"

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Posted by: weeazel
thats why its a video game you moron. have you noticed you can kill people with 2 melee attacks?


Let's do a test. You stand still and I'll do two running swings at your head with a baseball bat. If you live then I guess Halo can be called "unrealistic".


I think that weeazel was talking about meleeing with a pistol, not a bat...

  • 05.11.2006 12:30 AM PDT
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in halo 1, the pistol was the one thing that lets u survive legendary.
in halo2, the pistol was the only weapon u would use when playing easy.
in halo3 , the pistol should be inbetween.

take out the scope, but leave the design, its nice


Winner. It's called balance people, they're not bringing back the one godly weapon and if they do bring it back it won't be godly because all the other weapons will scale.

  • 05.11.2006 5:16 AM PDT

Stop Telling Me To Veto

I don't want it back because it was too powerful and it could almost replaced the sniper rifle

  • 05.11.2006 5:34 AM PDT
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I just want to say to everyone.

THE PISTOL HAS A SCOPE.

I'm so sick of idiots going "No it didn't it waz the opticalzors!!!!!11".
Yea, no -blam!-. But it's still a linked scope, and it gave the player a zoom function.
Therefore, it had a scope.

  • 05.11.2006 5:38 AM PDT
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Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah PISTOL Blah Blah Halo1 Blah blah BR blah blah halo 2 blah blah halo 3 blah...and blah

Bungie isn't gonna listen to you people they already have their own ideas...my opinion about the pistol yeah it was awesome really fast killer thats what prevented spawn campers because you spawned with the most powerful gun in the game, but what the fun of having the most powerful gun in the game right in your hands when you spawn thats like H4X0RZ it would be cool if there was only 1 pistol in halo 3 and you gotta go get it...or no pistol at all. Battle rifle isn't as powerful as pistol (some people said it is) pistol shoots faster -.-, But there was always the noob combo...ohhh the noob combo *droolz*

just let bungie do there thing I bet they discussed the pistol thing a long time ago...but pistol in SINGLE PLAYER hot dang! I'd love takin out hunters with 1 shot again that was kick @$$!!!...and no arbitar...I hate the arbitar...the arbitar is a d0uche bag.. The game is about MC not the d0uche bad arbitar.....arbitar s laaame.

  • 05.11.2006 6:12 AM PDT
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  • 05.11.2006 6:15 AM PDT
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Here's my opinion, though nobody wants it. In real-life, on a battlefield, what would win, an assault rifle or a pistol. An Assault Rifle, exactly. It's usually the opposite in Halo CE, with the pistol winning. And in Halo 2. Pistol vs. SMG, in real life, what would win on a battlefield. AN SMG. Which is exactly what happens in Halo 2 (well not exactly, if the SMGer sucks and/or the pistoler pwns). Halo CE was far more unrealistic than Halo 2. Which is why they replaced the pistol with a Battle Rifle. You'd expect that kinda power from a BR, not from a friggen pistol.
Now, it's like real life. Nobody uses a pistol anymore, except when they are extremely good with it, it's all they got left, or they have a duel-wield weapon to go with it.

  • 05.11.2006 6:26 AM PDT
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the old pistol was wwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy overpowered. imagine that pistol on halo 2 w/o any lag. you spawn and start walking then three shots later your dead. The battle rifle is essentialy the pistol but with 5 shots and harder to miss so its about a halo 1 pistol watered down to make it fair.

  • 05.11.2006 6:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: weeazel
thats why its a video game you moron. have you noticed you can kill people with 2 melee attacks?

is THAT unrealistic????


your new, go play Halo 2


Actually you moron if you hit someone with the butt of a gun you are quite likely to kill them. asswipe.

  • 05.11.2006 6:29 AM PDT
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I'm a huge H1 pistol lover, but I really don't want it back in the new game. Let bungie make new weapons. If you mastered the 3sk and had a good movement, there wasn't much people could do to stop you. Bungie should know by now after 2 games what weapons should and shouldn't return.

Hopefully the neddler, Plasma pistol wouldn't make it to the next game. PP is it does return needs some kind of changes made to it. But by bringing the H1 pistol back in H3 with the same capacity, you’re basically killing all other weapons in the game, and the variant die with it.

There was no better equalizer then the pistol, that's why I and many other fell in love with it. No matter if the other player had sniper and RL, if you had the pistol you had a very good chance.

  • 05.11.2006 6:30 AM PDT

Posted by: Spartan_355
Here's my opinion, though nobody wants it. In real-life.....


See that's where you've come unstuck. Real life doesn't matter. What does matter is that the pistol was damn cool, unique to Halo and it worked, that's why people want it back. I'm not saying it should come back, only explaining that realism is no argument against it. I think a 3-shot kill is a little overpowered perhaps, but it all depends.

  • 05.11.2006 6:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: weeazel
thats why its a video game you moron. have you noticed you can kill people with 2 melee attacks?

is THAT unrealistic????


your new, go play Halo 2


what kind of an insult is that, of course he's going to play halo 2, the main theme of this website happens to be HALO 2!!!
think about what your going to say before you say it!

  • 05.11.2006 6:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: weeazel
thats why its a video game you moron. have you noticed you can kill people with 2 melee attacks?

is THAT unrealistic????


your new, go play Halo 2

I still can't get over this, but why the hell compare being able to kill someone with two hits with the buut of a gun( which is realistic enough ) to being able to almost kill someone with a pistol who's on the other side of the map, thats FUK1NG UNREALISTIC!!! Prick!

  • 05.11.2006 6:38 AM PDT
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Wow, you peopel are so stupid. If you want realistic gameplay, you are playing the wrong game, quit comparing it to real life combat situations. ZOMG THE PISTOL CAN BEAT AR. If oyu were honestly any good at either game, you wouldn't care about what it looks like nearly as much as what it CAN DO. This is -blam!- HALO. THERE IS NO REALISM. We have a -blam!- 7 foot tall Spartan who runs around killing aliens. Oh yah, realistic. He can take rounds of SMG bullets, but not two punches. Ok kiddo. You guys are delusional if you think Halo is designed at all to be a representation of actual combat or the aspects involved.

  • 05.11.2006 6:53 AM PDT
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Don't really care about the pistol....what I'd like to see are Smoke Grenades....they could really be fun in multiplayer !

  • 05.11.2006 6:56 AM PDT
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It's not that the pistol was cheap, it's just that it was the best weapon in the game, and you spawned with it often. If the pistol came back, no one would pay attention to the other weapons on the map. Halo Multiplayer could have just been renamed "Pistol Wars." The BR is a lot better. Works like the pistol, except weakened a bit, and now it makes sence that a rifle is shooting out those powerful accurate rounds, not a pistol. If you want the Halo pistol, open your Xbox, put in Halo, and dominate everything with a little handgun.

  • 05.11.2006 6:56 AM PDT
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Who knows, go to the UVG's Chicago Brawl and see if you can use it to win the tourny. gamerstournaments.com

  • 05.11.2006 6:56 AM PDT
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I too want SMOKE GRENADES!

  • 05.11.2006 6:58 AM PDT