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Subject: Some form of the Librarian still lives or affects the Halo Universe

While it is preposterous to think that she could still be alive, though not necessarily impossible, it is highly unlikely because of her being stranded on a planet during the first firing of the Halo Array. I do believe some part of her still lives, perhaps in The Forerunner AI type.

In Cryptum, chapter 2 page 46 this conversation discussing the Librarian was held:
"We never see her," Chakas said. "We don't know where she is, But she sent you, I'm sure of that."

My ancilla. They were more right than they could possibly know. "She must be a great power indeed, to arrange this," i said. But my voice lacked conviction.

"Luck is her way," Chakas said.


I imagine you can all see where I'm going with this now. LUCK is her way. And who is the "Lucky" Spartan? do i even need to pull up the quote? I will anyway.

They let me pick. Did I ever tell you that? Choose which ever Spartan I wanted. You know me. I did my research, watched as you became the soldier we needed you to be. But you had something they didn't, something no one saw but me. Can you guess? Luck.

Now how is this possible? It doesn't seem likely that she would have been able to create an AI that while stranded on a world held in Flood occupied space? Well we know she was a Lifeworker, one of only 3 to ever be given the title of Lifeshaper. She was considered a genius of her time. COuld it be possible that she was able to create some form of construct to house her personality or a portion of it? Unlikely, but there is something more likely. Memories. Memories are an imnportant thing discussed quite often in Cryptum. The 2 humans, Chakas and Riser, are given memories from the ancestors when humanity was a great civilization. Before they die a Forerunners memories are taken and stored. The Domain is a network that connects the minds of and memories of all Forerunners.

The Forerunners believe it is important to keep the memories of their people. Wouldn't the Librarian feel the same? Could she find some way to house her memories and plans? Yes, this was apparently fairly common for memories to be stored. She could store her memories and plans for the future, essentialy she could store her personality in a way. But there is another way,in Cryptum we are given light to a wonderful thing, Mutation. We find that Forerunners could change looks, personality and be given memories from this. This was how Bornstellar essentially became the Didact or as close as you can get to being him. Could the Librarian had prepared for this eventuality that she might be killed or trapped behind lines? It seems likely knowing her character. It also seems likely that she would make sure her plans would not be stopped by her own death.

Now I do believe Forerunners are still alive. Others have submitted evidence of this and I will present more. In the Last Terminal on Halo 3 we are able to see a transmission from the Didact. He states:

D: Mendicant Bias is trying to
prevent us from firing the Array.
He speeds back to the Ark, but he
won't succeed. Offensive Bias will
stop him, and I will burn this
stinking menace in your name.


And then?


I will begin our Great Journey
without you, carrying this bitter
record. Those who came after will
know what we bought with this [false
transcendence] - what you bought,
and the price you paid.



Now there are 2 things I would like to point out. The first is one sentence that says: "Offensive Bias will stop him, and I will burn this stinking menace in your name."

The stinking menace is the Flood. Him is Mendicant Bias. The next paragraph has an interesting sentence at the beginning:"I will begin our Great Journey without you, carrying this bitter record."

This implies that he and others would be alive after the firing of the Halo array. Death wold offer him a peace to the pain he feels at having essentially killed his wife. But wouldn't a man so deeply in love with a woman attempt to go see the last place she was known to be alive at? Most likely even if finding her was just a small hope. Perhaps if he did he would find her memories stored on a device, or even a another Forerunner who has Mutated to be like the Librarian. She may be hidden somewhere within the Forerunner population that still lives.

Who knows? What do you think? Is it possible? Likely?

  • 12.25.2011 9:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am not even going to bother reading your post.

Both sets of Terminals confirm her death.

  • 12.25.2011 12:27 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: grey101
I am not even going to bother reading your post.

Both sets of Terminals confirm her death.


She doesn't necessarily have to be alive to still have a degree of influence.

  • 12.25.2011 12:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: grey101
I am not even going to bother reading your post.

Both sets of Terminals confirm her death.


She doesn't necessarily have to be alive to still have a degree of influence.


Of course not, the Geas is her influence. Not to mention her own personal plans she might have had.

  • 12.25.2011 12:55 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am not even going to bother reading your post.

Both sets of Terminals confirm her death.
If you read my post you would know why i think its possible. I addressed these issues.

  • 12.25.2011 1:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

  • 12.25.2011 1:44 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.
My theory never even brought geas into the equation.

  • 12.25.2011 4:26 PM PDT
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Five exclamations marks are a good signifier of an insane mind. As is trying to hide from Death in an airtight room. Silly wizard.


Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

The geas do not have to be perfect. All they need to do is start the ball rolling and with any luck the pieces will come together.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 4:30 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 4:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

The geas do not have to be perfect. All they need to do is start the ball rolling and with any luck the pieces will come together.


You will understand what i am talking about soon and why this theory isn't true.

  • 12.25.2011 4:36 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

The geas do not have to be perfect. All they need to do is start the ball rolling and with any luck the pieces will come together.


You will understand what i am talking about soon and why this theory isn't true.
I have to agree with Grey on this one. A geas only has limited ability. Besides, to place a geas she would have to still be alive. So saying she's dead but placed a geas on people...well i think you understand. Regardless, my theory doesn't involve a geas.

  • 12.25.2011 4:39 PM PDT
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Five exclamations marks are a good signifier of an insane mind. As is trying to hide from Death in an airtight room. Silly wizard.


Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

The geas do not have to be perfect. All they need to do is start the ball rolling and with any luck the pieces will come together.


You will understand what i am talking about soon and why this theory isn't true.
I have to agree with Grey on this one. A geas only has limited ability. Besides, to place a geas she would have to still be alive. So saying she's dead but placed a geas on people...well i think you understand. Regardless, my theory doesn't involve a geas.

@Grey
What do you mean by that? It seems like you are talking about something that hasn't come out yet.

@TDR
I don't mean that the Librarian has this whole plan she will act out in her geas. Spark mentions in the first CEA terminal that he will have to verify their (the PoAs crew's) Geas so their may be a small hereditary element. If there is, it could be as simple as having a Geas that points early explorers to Reach. The theory about Reach being artificially augmented for Humanity could be worked into this idea. The Geas points towards Reach which will eventually lead humans to Badb Catha and all that stuff.

Mostly just throwing stuff out here.

  • 12.25.2011 4:46 PM PDT


Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: MAC Blast

Posted by: grey101
As you will soon find out Geas are not as controllable as one may think.

The geas do not have to be perfect. All they need to do is start the ball rolling and with any luck the pieces will come together.


You will understand what i am talking about soon and why this theory isn't true.
I have to agree with Grey on this one. A geas only has limited ability. Besides, to place a geas she would have to still be alive. So saying she's dead but placed a geas on people...well i think you understand. Regardless, my theory doesn't involve a geas.

@Grey
What do you mean by that? It seems like you are talking about something that hasn't come out yet.

@TDR
I don't mean that the Librarian has this whole plan she will act out in her geas. Spark mentions in the first CEA terminal that he will have to verify their (the PoAs crew's) Geas so their may be a small hereditary element. If there is, it could be as simple as having a Geas that points early explorers to Reach. The theory about Reach being artificially augmented for Humanity could be worked into this idea. The Geas points towards Reach which will eventually lead humans to Badb Catha and all that stuff.

Mostly just throwing stuff out here.
Ah now I got ya. Your referring to the reach was meant to be found theory. I forgot what thread that was in. I guess she could have placed some type of desire in humans to search and explore that would pass on to their children but its seems as if we would do that on our own.

@grey: im mostly just getting the idea out there that the librarian still has some form of influence on the Halo universe. Something i read in cryptum made me think about it. The truth is that the original Librarian is dead, i don't even think to contest that. I discuss other things.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 4:53 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 4:50 PM PDT
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....spongy, bungie, who cares? I got mine!

Oh, the Librarian exist still, indeed.

Notice on the terminal in Halo CEA, in which the Librarian symbol randomized, and rematerializes as 343 Guilty Spark?

He is a special Monitor. How many other Monitors do we know that have left their installations? In the terminals he also states that as a Monitor "She was wise to limit our knowledge of other installations" (Not exact, but something like that), and yet 343GS seems to know ALOT about all of the installations including the Ark.

Possibly she has projected herself into an AI of which we know as 343 Guilty Spark, kinda the same way Dr. Halsey did with Cortana.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 5:03 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 5:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Timmie
Oh, the Librarian exist still, indeed.

Notice on the terminal in Halo CEA, in which the Librarian symbol randomized, and rematerializes as 343 Guilty Spark?

He is a special Monitor. How many other Monitors do we know that have left their installations? In the terminals he also states that as a Monitor "She was wise to limit our knowledge of other installations" (Not exact, but something like that), and yet 343GS seems to know ALOT about all of the installations including the Ark.

Possibly she has projected herself into an AI of which we know as 343 Guilty Spark, kinda the same way Dr. Halsey did with Cortana.
That was one of my theories but i dont think its 343GS.

Edit: Also idk why i couldn't think correctly. The Librarian was stranded on earth, not an unknown planet.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 5:28 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 5:07 PM PDT
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....spongy, bungie, who cares? I got mine!


Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: Timmie
Oh, the Librarian exist still, indeed.

Notice on the terminal in Halo CEA, in which the Librarian symbol randomized, and rematerializes as 343 Guilty Spark?

He is a special Monitor. How many other Monitors do we know that have left their installations? In the terminals he also states that as a Monitor "She was wise to limit our knowledge of other installations" (Not exact, but something like that), and yet 343GS seems to know ALOT about all of the installations including the Ark.

Possibly she has projected herself into an AI of which we know as 343 Guilty Spark, kinda the same way Dr. Halsey did with Cortana.
That was one of my theories but i dont think its 343GS.

Edit: Also idk why i couldn't think correctly. The Librarian was stranded on earth, not an unknown planet.

Well maybe she split herself into 12 parts, each monitor containing 1 part? Of course 5 of those parts are missing/destroyed now. Leaving just a remnant of who she was.

[EDIT]
Because I highly doubt the symbol randomizing like that and coming back as a monitor was coincidental. I, personally, think its a clue.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 6:11 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 6:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Timmie

Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: Timmie
Oh, the Librarian exist still, indeed.

Notice on the terminal in Halo CEA, in which the Librarian symbol randomized, and rematerializes as 343 Guilty Spark?

He is a special Monitor. How many other Monitors do we know that have left their installations? In the terminals he also states that as a Monitor "She was wise to limit our knowledge of other installations" (Not exact, but something like that), and yet 343GS seems to know ALOT about all of the installations including the Ark.

Possibly she has projected herself into an AI of which we know as 343 Guilty Spark, kinda the same way Dr. Halsey did with Cortana.
That was one of my theories but i dont think its 343GS.

Edit: Also idk why i couldn't think correctly. The Librarian was stranded on earth, not an unknown planet.

Well maybe she split herself into 12 parts, each monitor containing 1 part? Of course 5 of those parts are missing/destroyed now. Leaving just a remnant of who she was.

[EDIT]
Because I highly doubt the symbol randomizing like that and coming back as a monitor was coincidental. I, personally, think its a clue.
I dont doubt its a clue i just doubt its 343 GS. Also which terminal, i need to go back and review that video because i dont recall that..

  • 12.25.2011 6:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The theory doesn't make sense seeing how 343 said they were asked to serve.

  • 12.25.2011 6:29 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
The theory doesn't make sense seeing how 343 said they were asked to serve.
Exactly! Not to mention 343 GS was talking to the Librarian in some of the CEA terminals. I doubt it was any of the monitors. But she still could have made some type of AI, or even had led another Forerunner through a mutation.

  • 12.25.2011 6:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: grey101
The theory doesn't make sense seeing how 343 said they were asked to serve.
Exactly! Not to mention 343 GS was talking to the Librarian in some of the CEA terminals. I doubt it was any of the monitors. But she still could have made some type of AI, or even had led another Forerunner through a mutation.


i wish people understood that what happened to Bornstellar is not something the forerunners do normally or would like to do.

  • 12.25.2011 6:56 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: TDR Mudcat09

Posted by: grey101
The theory doesn't make sense seeing how 343 said they were asked to serve.
Exactly! Not to mention 343 GS was talking to the Librarian in some of the CEA terminals. I doubt it was any of the monitors. But she still could have made some type of AI, or even had led another Forerunner through a mutation.


i wish people understood that what happened to Bornstellar is not something the forerunners do normally or would like to do.
I completely understand that. Brevet Mutations were not thought highly of at all, not to mention it was done by someone outside of his "caste". Which was a really big no no. I read the book just like you did. But desperate times call for desperate measures. Bornstellar was Mutated because he needed to be able to understand things that he couldn't without Mutating. Now, while all of Didacts Warrior sons died, whose to say him and the Librarian didn't have Lifeworker daughters? They could have been alive still, or even though it is frowned upon she could have chosen another Lifeworker to mutate. As i stated before, desperate times called for desperate measures. What was the best way to ensure that her plans unfolded as she wanted when it couldn't happen for thousands of years? Thats easy, leave behind a piece of herself capable of reacting to a problem that comes along.

Edit: I have another theory that explains my reasoning behind this but it is rather incompletely developed as of now. I'm waiting for the next book so that maybe it will reveal more info. But if you wish i will give you the basics of it.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 7:08 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 7:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am sure it was stated they had sons and daughters that had all died in the war.

Your kinda forcing events to fit with your theory at this point. It's best that you just leave it be and wait a week.

FYI. Don't wait until right before a major source of information comes out to make a theory unless you are 100 percent sure you are correct.

  • 12.25.2011 7:12 PM PDT
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The only thing that really seems to stand out is the "Luck is her way" and Master Chief, the star of the next 3 games, is notorious for his luck........

  • 12.25.2011 7:16 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am sure it was stated they had sons and daughters that had all died in the war.

Your kinda forcing events to fit with your theory at this point. It's best that you just leave it be and wait a week.

FYI. Don't wait until right before a major source of information comes out to make a theory unless you are 100 percent sure you are correct.
It never says that all their children died. It only says that all of Didacts Warrior Sons died. He was left their last thoughts and memories in his sphinxes.

Also in chapter 41 on pg 338 of Cryptum, it states:

Here, she did not wear armor. She was among her other children, and had never known harm from any of them.

The question is when Bornsteller says children does he mean her actual children? Or perhaps that the Lifeworkers were her "children"? I'm more partial to the second choice because he states OTHER children. Either way I think its likely that she would have found some way to see the humanity found its way along the correct path. After all this next trilogy is The Reclaimer Trilogy, wouldn't she want to make sure we are able to "reclaim" what is ours?

Ah but then i'm getting into my other theory. and problems. And i have had this theory for awhile but as I stated it would be better to wait until I have more info. Either way I think what happens, at least will be similar to my theory, even if my theory isnt likely.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 7:27 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 7:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am positive that he said all of their 12 children died in the war with humans and were converted into the sphinexs.

And by "Other children" it could be the Life on the installation since it was followed by the "she never knew any harm from them. Hence her not wearing armor.

Again, you are really forcing this and should just wait until you can get more info and properly explain your idea.

  • 12.25.2011 7:30 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am positive that he said all of their 12 children died in the war with humans and were converted into the sphinexs.

And by "Other children" it could be the Life on the installation since it was followed by the "she never knew any harm from them. Hence her not wearing armor.

Again, you are really forcing this and should just wait until you can get more info and properly explain your idea.
You are correct about the children, Cryptum, Ch 13, pg 138:

These were our sons and daughters. The Librarians and mine," the Didact. "They became warriors and served in my fleets. They died in battle. All of them. Of course he could mean all the children that became warriors, highly unlikely. I won't even consider the possibility. Alas I agree. I need to contemplate more on this and have more info revealed. Though I'm mainly arguing the possibility than the factuality that she is still alive in one form or another. Regardless i think she is in some form.

[Edited on 12.25.2011 7:46 PM PST]

  • 12.25.2011 7:45 PM PDT

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