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Subject: Thoughts on Emile-A239

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

You are a great writer my friend. Apt description as well. Emile is not a "macho tough guy," a common misconception I find myself encountering. Of course, you have already described what he is, so I am lost for words.

  • 12.31.2011 8:29 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: grey101
Reach Falling in a short amount of time had significance. It showed the might of the covenant and how even at our peak we still couldn't match them. The game was horrable because it tried to equalize that event.


Coma, Not to call you out but i feel like you have a different perspective due to you being new to halo. It is going to be different for you to recently read the books then by the game then it is for us growing up with a certain mindset.

The Covenant have a arrogant and dogmatic approach to war. They don't improve upon their techniques because that is heresy, would be stating the enemy is worthy of their might. Which is why the covenant acting slightly smart for once created such a shock.


If A single CSO class ship can siege and entire planet, why didn't they just create a fleet of them an exterminate humanity? There are Hundreds Of ships that size and of simalr class in orbit above High charity, and we know that is only a defensive fleet created during war times (Contact Harvest IIRC).
So why couldn't they have taken 50 or so ships and rampage humanity? If they have Camo or some sort of Advanced stealth tech then why haven't the been using it the entire time? You could argue that this fits in with their dogmatic approach, but the issue is that the tactic is too smart for them despite it being executed poorly.

Reach shattered Both Aspects of the Factions. The dogmatic Covenant was changed to "stupid yet clever" and the UNSC was just changed into idiots. The Data Pads try to make sense of Reach but the Data Drops is only 343's attempt at mending that failure. Why would you try such an operation on your military stronghold of all places? It makes no sense,especially when we later learn that ONI had already been to High Charity atleast once.

I just Find it Interesting how They stated they wouldn't do a halo movie "unless it is perfect" yet they messed up reach.

Grey, I think you know I am not someone who advocated Reach's campaign as great in the past, but I think your reasoning here is a bit misguided.

What does it say about the UNSC's competence that its strongest HUB world fell to the Covenant in one day? I don't buy the argument that the Covenant was so much more powerful than the humans that they could decimate their worlds so quickly. Even in the novels, the description is that the Covenant decimates in space, but on the ground, it's more of a level playing field.

Furthermore, the method by which Reach was essentially captured in Nylund's novels is by numbers. The Covenant had millions of members, why did it not just send hundreds of warships to every planet? Halo 2 is also under question then, as even with Earth's formidable defenses, a couple hundred super carriers could make short work of Earth, and thereby the human race.

As more and more time goes by, I find myself disliking Reach less and less. While I admit to myself that Reach was not the best campaign ever, it certainly was not bad either in hindsight.

  • 12.31.2011 8:37 PM PDT

Well, to be frank I read the books back when CE/2 was out, but looking over it the UNSC does appear stupid for the ground battle in the book alone.

I mean, just earlier they outright describe this deadly aircraft, but in the battle it's not used at all. But those details are for another topic, not one about Emile.

Course, Parangosky (from 343's items) has been showed to be an increasingly stupid person in charge...

Plasma here kinda states what I mean, UNSC has always been depicted as better in ground battles/winning those battle, yet is absolutely steam rolled on it's most fortified planet?

[Edited on 12.31.2011 8:42 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2011 8:40 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Course, Parangosky (from 343's items) has been showed to be an increasingly stupid person in charge...

How do you figure?

  • 12.31.2011 8:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Course, Parangosky (from 343's items) has been showed to be an increasingly stupid person in charge...

How do you figure?


Sacrificing Reach to get at a Supercarrier despite ONI having gotten somebody on High Charity and back out.

-blam!-ing about Halsey luring Spartans away despite not doing a thing to counter/contest Hood ordering them to Onyx.

Supplying the group of Elites most likely to try to fight humanity in the future instead of supporting the Arbiter and aiding his faction to improve humans in the eyes of the elites.

Stealing an engineer from said group of Elite rebels, then placing clues pointing the theft at a human colony. (causing said Elites to swear vengeance on the planet IIRC) (Oh, and you know the fact ONI at least had Vergil from ODST, and a goodly number of Engineers from first strike. All of which are MIA apparently despite being handed to ONI.)

Funding a Spartan IV program, but not using the ones on the Infinity to help defend Earth.

Not using Infinity to help defend Earth.

  • 12.31.2011 8:59 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Sacrificing Reach to get at a Supercarrier despite ONI having gotten somebody on High Charity and back out.
Sorry, you'll have to clarify this one.

-blam!-ing about Halsey luring Spartans away despite not doing a thing to counter/contest Hood ordering them to Onyx.

Well one, Maggie was mad about Halsey lying, not necessarily luring them. Secondly, I don't think even Maggie knew that Halsey was luring them for illegitimate reasons.

Supplying the group of Elites most likely to try to fight humanity in the future instead of supporting the Arbiter and aiding his faction to improve humans in the eyes of the elites.

ONI decided to aid the side they saw as more powerful. Furthermore, it was not about funding Telcam to fight humans, rather encourage instability within the Sangheili order. Not very righteous, but political nonetheless.

Stealing an engineer from said group of Elite rebels, then placing clues pointing the theft at a human colony. (causing said Elites to swear vengeance on the planet IIRC) (Oh, and you know the fact ONI at least had Vergil from ODST, and a goodly number of Engineers from first strike. All of which are MIA apparently despite being handed to ONI.)

The clues were pointing at a Kig Yar community actually. Humans happened to be there, but they were Innies. Furthermore, the Elites took the Kig-Yar bait.

Funding a Spartan IV program, but not using the ones on the Infinity to help defend Earth.

Waste of resources. Infinity was not ready to defend Reach, was not necessary on Earth, and I think Maggie understands that the SIVs were not good enough to turn around the battle.

  • 12.31.2011 9:21 PM PDT

The first one deals with data drops, and the story "Stomping on the heels of a fuss." The ONI operative in it claims to have been personally on High Charity and has observed brutes there.

Nah, she arrests Halsey for basically 'kidnapping' the Spartans when Earth "needed them most." Despite the fact is was Hood's orders that sent them to Onyx.

Well, that shows ONI as stupid then. Cause I'd wager the more powerful side would be the one with the fleet, not two out-dated bombers and a boarding craft...

Still, it's a human colony world. Jackals, rebels, brutes or not, I don't think these Elites are going to distinguish Jackals armed with human weapons coming from a mostly human world as being separate from the rest of humanity.

Might just be me, but in the case of Infinity and battle of Earth, I'd have pulled out all the stops seeing as it's literally the last stand. Who knows how many lives could've been saved with those extra soldiers on the ground? How many could've been saved by the Infinity's weapons gutting Covenant ships?

  • 12.31.2011 11:39 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101
Reach Falling in a short amount of time had significance. It showed the might of the covenant and how even at our peak we still couldn't match them. The game was horrable because it tried to equalize that event.


Coma, Not to call you out but i feel like you have a different perspective due to you being new to halo. It is going to be different for you to recently read the books then by the game then it is for us growing up with a certain mindset.

The Covenant have a arrogant and dogmatic approach to war. They don't improve upon their techniques because that is heresy, would be stating the enemy is worthy of their might. Which is why the covenant acting slightly smart for once created such a shock.


If A single CSO class ship can siege and entire planet, why didn't they just create a fleet of them an exterminate humanity? There are Hundreds Of ships that size and of simalr class in orbit above High charity, and we know that is only a defensive fleet created during war times (Contact Harvest IIRC).
So why couldn't they have taken 50 or so ships and rampage humanity? If they have Camo or some sort of Advanced stealth tech then why haven't the been using it the entire time? You could argue that this fits in with their dogmatic approach, but the issue is that the tactic is too smart for them despite it being executed poorly.

Reach shattered Both Aspects of the Factions. The dogmatic Covenant was changed to "stupid yet clever" and the UNSC was just changed into idiots. The Data Pads try to make sense of Reach but the Data Drops is only 343's attempt at mending that failure. Why would you try such an operation on your military stronghold of all places? It makes no sense,especially when we later learn that ONI had already been to High Charity atleast once.

I just Find it Interesting how They stated they wouldn't do a halo movie "unless it is perfect" yet they messed up reach.

Grey, I think you know I am not someone who advocated Reach's campaign as great in the past, but I think your reasoning here is a bit misguided.

What does it say about the UNSC's competence that its strongest HUB world fell to the Covenant in one day? I don't buy the argument that the Covenant was so much more powerful than the humans that they could decimate their worlds so quickly. Even in the novels, the description is that the Covenant decimates in space, but on the ground, it's more of a level playing field.

Furthermore, the method by which Reach was essentially captured in Nylund's novels is by numbers. The Covenant had millions of members, why did it not just send hundreds of warships to every planet? Halo 2 is also under question then, as even with Earth's formidable defenses, a couple hundred super carriers could make short work of Earth, and thereby the human race.

As more and more time goes by, I find myself disliking Reach less and less. While I admit to myself that Reach was not the best campaign ever, it certainly was not bad either in hindsight.


Misguided or are we not on the same level?

It is a fact that the covenant are stronger than the UNSC seeing how they have superior technology and beat reach's fleet in 2 hours. That is all that matters in space battles, the might of your ground forces is irreverent of your ships aren't of the same caliber.

If the covenant weren't so stupid and dogmatic they could have exterminated humanity within 10 years. Reach was going to fall regardless since the humans cannot replenish their fleets. If one ship falls they can't call another for back up, it has to be created which takes time.

If humanity's orbital defenses were fortified and their fleet could send in timely reinforcements, that battle would have lasted far longer. Something you will understand in about 2 days.


The Covenant is dogmatic, something that people have a hard time understanding nowadays.

  • 12.31.2011 11:51 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Sacrificing Reach to get at a Supercarrier despite ONI having gotten somebody on High Charity and back out.
Sorry, you'll have to clarify this one.

-blam!-ing about Halsey luring Spartans away despite not doing a thing to counter/contest Hood ordering them to Onyx.

Well one, Maggie was mad about Halsey lying, not necessarily luring them. Secondly, I don't think even Maggie knew that Halsey was luring them for illegitimate reasons.

Supplying the group of Elites most likely to try to fight humanity in the future instead of supporting the Arbiter and aiding his faction to improve humans in the eyes of the elites.

ONI decided to aid the side they saw as more powerful. Furthermore, it was not about funding Telcam to fight humans, rather encourage instability within the Sangheili order. Not very righteous, but political nonetheless.

Stealing an engineer from said group of Elite rebels, then placing clues pointing the theft at a human colony. (causing said Elites to swear vengeance on the planet IIRC) (Oh, and you know the fact ONI at least had Vergil from ODST, and a goodly number of Engineers from first strike. All of which are MIA apparently despite being handed to ONI.)

The clues were pointing at a Kig Yar community actually. Humans happened to be there, but they were Innies. Furthermore, the Elites took the Kig-Yar bait.

Funding a Spartan IV program, but not using the ones on the Infinity to help defend Earth.

Waste of resources. Infinity was not ready to defend Reach, was not necessary on Earth, and I think Maggie understands that the SIVs were not good enough to turn around the battle.




1. Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss, which takes place during the space battle of reach. Which means he was at High charity long before that.

2.I know Wolver will be on my ass so i won't even touch this.

3.That faction isn't the stronger faction since they don't even have ships -_- You know there are smarter ways to prefer istablilty; such as attacking Elite ships and making it look like brutes/jackals did it, promoting a war between brutes and elites, manipulating the kig-yar,etc.

The dumbest thing you could do is promote the fact that wants to kill you. ONI better not start this war unless they plan on using 03 to completely wipe out the elites.

4.confused as to what we are talking about.

5.Spartans are useless to begin with since space is where the UNSC needs to have dominance at. they need to be spending money on ships not spartans.


Infinity is the dumbest thing i have ever seen in my life, i don't even think the covenant are so stupid. Lets say Earth Fell leaving humanity scattered and without a government. What role would infinity have then? what point would it serve? It is pointless.

  • 01.01.2012 12:01 AM PDT

I don't think much of him. Not as great as Linda-058, that's for sure.

  • 01.01.2012 4:20 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Nah, she arrests Halsey for basically 'kidnapping' the Spartans when Earth "needed them most." Despite the fact is was Hood's orders that sent them to Onyx.

No, she uses that an excuse to detain her, and even then, she does not need an excuse since Halsey is practically dead. Reread that section.

Well, that shows ONI as stupid then. Cause I'd wager the more powerful side would be the one with the fleet, not two out-dated bombers and a boarding craft...

The Arbiter does not have widespread support and therefore does not have a fleet.

Still, it's a human colony world. Jackals, rebels, brutes or not, I don't think these Elites are going to distinguish Jackals armed with human weapons coming from a mostly human world as being separate from the rest of humanity.
You are missing the point bud. Jackal bodies were put on the ship with human weapons in order to frame the Jackals. Even if they do find humans there, they would not mercilessly slaughter them because they know of the repercussions; first they need to be in power before they anger both the Arbiter and the humans.

Might just be me, but in the case of Infinity and battle of Earth, I'd have pulled out all the stops seeing as it's literally the last stand. Who knows how many lives could've been saved with those extra soldiers on the ground? How many could've been saved by the Infinity's weapons gutting Covenant ships?

If the Covenant really wanted to, they could have taken out Earth. Why waste expensive resources such as Spartans and Infinity when they could be put to better use elsewhere?

  • 01.01.2012 2:24 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Misguided or are we not on the same level?
The former. There is no more of a logical reason for humanity's strongest bastion after Earth to fall in two hours than there is for the Covenant to employ slightly different tactics. Even then, the Covenant initially suspected Reach to have Forerunner artifacts, not be the military home of the humans.

Infinity is the dumbest thing i have ever seen in my life, i don't even think the covenant are so stupid. Lets say Earth Fell leaving humanity scattered and without a government. What role would infinity have then? what point would it serve? It is pointless.

Really? If Earth had fallen, then the only hope humanity would have left is to abandon the Orion Arm. the only ship capable of doing that was Infinity.


[Edited on 01.01.2012 2:30 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 2:28 PM PDT

Ah, but in fact they say the Arbiter does control the fleets. Doesn't Tel'cam say that?

And how would Infinity get them out of the Orion Arm if (according to their claims) the slipspace drive wasn't even working?

  • 01.01.2012 5:08 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Ah, but in fact they say the Arbiter does control the fleets. Doesn't Tel'cam say that?

And how would Infinity get them out of the Orion Arm if (according to their claims) the slipspace drive wasn't even working?

ONI understands that the nature of Sangheili society is opposing another viewpoint by assassinations. Since Thel did not have widespread support, they figured it would only be a matter of time since Thel was assassinated and the vocal opinion would be the law. Instead, ONI decided to breed chaos so that hate against humans would not ferment into action; granted, breeding instability sacrificed alliance with Thel, but to ONI, the possible consequences of not doing so were much more severe.

As for Infinity, it would be the only ship capable of fleeing the Orion Arm. Even if the slipspace drive was not working (which you need to provide textual support for, by the way), it does not mean it was not going to work.

  • 01.01.2012 6:23 PM PDT

*watches thread descend into Reach canon/quality disputes*

  • 01.02.2012 4:30 AM PDT

Very good OP. You get a cookie.

  • 01.02.2012 6:35 AM PDT

In one of the books the Master cheif states that he is often afraid but has to put that to one side for the sake of his team. Emile's helmet and general attitude could be his coping mechanism it could be that he is afraid but tries to cope by intimating his enemies by living up to the covenant beliefs of the spartans that they are living demons. His reluctance to interact or distrust of civies could be that he feels like spartans are his family as he has spent most of his life with them they are a vety tight knit group with the exception of N6.

  • 01.02.2012 7:48 AM PDT

"Except we, we're the zebras. All fenced in...and ready for the slaughter!"

||S-fen Knee-cheh
||19th Shock Troops Battalion

Impressive, interesting insight.

  • 01.02.2012 7:58 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: CavemanBCE
*watches thread descend into Reach canon/quality disputes*

Seeing as that has not happened yet, you make yourself look foolish.

  • 01.02.2012 10:03 AM PDT

http://g.bf3stats.com/360/ykASDAB1/AaronWright%20x.png

he is a complete beast

  • 01.02.2012 12:06 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Misguided or are we not on the same level?
The former. There is no more of a logical reason for humanity's strongest bastion after Earth to fall in two hours than there is for the Covenant to employ slightly different tactics. Even then, the Covenant initially suspected Reach to have Forerunner artifacts, not be the military home of the humans.

Infinity is the dumbest thing i have ever seen in my life, i don't even think the covenant are so stupid. Lets say Earth Fell leaving humanity scattered and without a government. What role would infinity have then? what point would it serve? It is pointless.

Really? If Earth had fallen, then the only hope humanity would have left is to abandon the Orion Arm. the only ship capable of doing that was Infinity.


That was a rhetorical question the real answer is "we aren't on the same level".

Again, It was the space battle that lasted two hours not the entire battle. There is no reason that the covenant shouldn't have quickly beat humanity in space seeing how they have the advantage in that area (the only one that counts).

And then what? We don't the crew limit for the ship even then it isn't a colony ship. You would need a large amount of humans to re-populate the race, a ship containing under two thousand isn't going to do it.


1. The official reason she detains halsey is for stealing assets critical to the war. Which is hypocritical since ONI detained Fred during the Battle of Earth for his actions at Reach.

We then learn the real reason maggie is holding halsey, which is stupid.


2. Um, you might want to re-read the book. It was clearly stated the arbiter has the most ships under his command and i think the types were brought up. It was when Jul was stealing his/a ship from a garage.

4. Um, the covenant did want out Earth, Hence First Strike and Halo 2. What you just said fits ONI's stupidity perfectly.

"Yea lets detain a spartan and keep our best warship out of the most important battle in the entire war."

I ask again, what the Infinity do if Earth fell?

Please tell us what was more important than the planet containing the human government falling.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 2:30 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 2:29 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Again, It was the space battle that lasted two hours not the entire battle. There is no reason that the covenant shouldn't have quickly beat humanity in space seeing how they have the advantage in that area (the only one that counts).

Come on, grey. I may recall incorrectly, but I think it was you who asked (rhetorically) why 100 ships were incapable of taking out a supercarrier in Halo Reach. By the same token, why were over a hundred UNSC ships not able to hold the second most important planet for humanity for more than two hours? Obviously they could not win, but two hours is ridiculous, and in my humble opinion, even more ridiculous than 100 UNSC ships not being able to take out a 27 kilometer Covenant supership.

So let's discuss Infinity.

Suppose Infinity had been brought to Earth. What could an unfinished warship with some very important Forerunner technology could have done except make itself a target for Covenant capture? The Battle for Earth took place in October 2552, and even by March 2553, Infinity was not completed. Sure, Infinity may not be the most effective or even logical "plan B" if Earth fell, but sending the unfinished thing to Earth would have been even more ineffective and illogical. Besides, we barely know anything about Infinity; I do not think it was explicitly mentioned how many crew members were aboard. I do know that if I was an Admiral, I would no way in hell send the last thing humanity potentially had left to Earth.

1. The official reason she detains halsey is for stealing assets critical to the war. Which is hypocritical since ONI detained Fred during the Battle of Earth for his actions at Reach.

One thing I think we need to keep in mind is that military and civilian action is completely exclusive when it comes to judging penalties and rationales. I am not disputing the hypocrisy of the fiasco, but that does not mean the crime Halsey was accused of was baseless. And to be fair, ONI didn't take Fred off-world during the Battle of Earth.

Please tell us what was more important than the planet containing the human government falling.

Ensuring that the human race survives.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 5:15 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 3:23 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

2. Um, you might want to re-read the book. It was clearly stated the arbiter has the most ships under his command and i think the types were brought up. It was when Jul was stealing his/a ship from a garage.

Yes, he did have the majority of the ships under his control, but he did not have the majority of the people under his influence. Even his supporters were skeptical (if not genocidal) in regards to the humans.

  • 01.02.2012 3:26 PM PDT

First of all I appreciate reading an educated and well thought out post. Second I agree with your thread but I would like to add another thought as to Bungie's reason to create his personality in the way they did. I believe that Bungie created Emile to make the player (Noble Six) feel like they have someone on their team that was immovable in their ways and would always fight to death without any emotions getting in the way. You may have stated this in your original post and if so I apologize for not picking up on it.

  • 01.02.2012 5:59 PM PDT

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