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Subject: The timeless one is not the grave mind...

Can everyone stop saying the Timeless one is the gravemind that makes little to no sense why would the introduce such a mysterious and interesting character to have him already be dead?

  • 12.27.2011 11:43 PM PDT

Want to play Bungie games old and new? For Carnage Apply Within

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The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Well, Sunset Boulevard opened with the main character dead in a pool. It could work.

  • 12.27.2011 11:47 PM PDT

Glory and fame, blood is our name!
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Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
Sons of the gods, today we shall die.
Open Valhalla's door!
Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!

ONE gravemind is dead. And even then, we don't even know if Halo was able to completely fire. Apparently blowing up High Charity didn't do -blam!-, so maybe GM is tougher than we give him credit for.

Remember, the Forerunners had to result to mass pan-species Xenocide in order to wipe out the flood. Halo was literally the LAST thing they could come up with. Nothing else was effective. You think blowing up the Ark completely killed GM?

[Edited on 12.27.2011 11:57 PM PST]

  • 12.27.2011 11:49 PM PDT

Living in the past is a luxury none 
of us can afford. We must learn from 
it, but we cannot live there. It is 
impossible to plan for the now
the present is ever fleeting. The 
future is where we must live the 
future is what we must plan for.

^ yeah dawg

  • 12.28.2011 12:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: GhostLink2401
ONE gravemind is dead. And even then, we don't even know if Halo was able to completely fire. Apparently blowing up High Charity didn't do -blam!-, so maybe GM is tougher than we give him credit for.

Remember, the Forerunners had to result to mass pan-species Xenocide in order to wipe out the flood. Halo was literally the LAST thing they could come up with. Nothing else was effective. You think blowing up the Ark completely killed GM?


He might have been killed...but the flood hasnt....And his knowledge is still with flood.

  • 12.28.2011 2:03 AM PDT

Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

  • 12.28.2011 3:11 AM PDT

Moas are the true protagonists of Reach FTW!!!!
Don't be afraid to relax a little. Enjoy life, and you will find peace and happiness.


Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not

  • 12.28.2011 3:17 AM PDT

Old School


Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


but is gravemind a corrupted precursor? dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNN

  • 12.28.2011 3:30 AM PDT

Moas are the true protagonists of Reach FTW!!!!
Don't be afraid to relax a little. Enjoy life, and you will find peace and happiness.

no
Posted by: darkruby

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


but is gravemind a corrupted precursor? dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNN

  • 12.28.2011 3:40 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


You did play Halo 3, right? He says that defeat at Installation 04B is simply the addition to time before he returns, also Cryptum doesn't state that he's a Precursor, the Timeless One himself says he's a Precursor. What else is he? A master manipulator, we've no evidence other than his word.

[Edited on 12.28.2011 4:02 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 3:58 AM PDT

Moas are the true protagonists of Reach FTW!!!!
Don't be afraid to relax a little. Enjoy life, and you will find peace and happiness.


Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


You did play Halo 3, right? He says that defeat at Installation 04B is simply the addition to time before he returns, also Cryptum doesn't state that he's a Precursor, the Timeless One himself says he's a Precursor. What else is he? A master manipulator, we've no evidence other than his word.

you don't understand. by "return" he means the next time the flood have gained sufficient enough biomass to create an entirely new Gravemind, not the one from the original trilogy
however, i did not say it was not entirely impossible that the Timeless One did not, at one point, be absorbed by the flood.

[Edited on 12.28.2011 4:48 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 4:47 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


You did play Halo 3, right? He says that defeat at Installation 04B is simply the addition to time before he returns, also Cryptum doesn't state that he's a Precursor, the Timeless One himself says he's a Precursor. What else is he? A master manipulator, we've no evidence other than his word.

you don't understand. by "return" he means the next time the flood have gained sufficient enough biomass to create an entirely new Gravemind, not the one from the original trilogy
however, i did not say it was not entirely impossible that the Timeless One did not, at one point, be absorbed by the flood.


So why does he not refer to the whole of the Flood when he says that then? He talks specifically as an independant individual.

Also, each Gravemind retains the same identity and memories as the previous one, Gravemind in Halo 2 and 3 speaks as if he's impossibly old, he talks of consuming an entire galaxy before and that he has "listened through rock and metal and time". He was destroyd on High Charity yet he was being rebuilt on Installation 04B, yet he still retained the same memory and identity as the previous body. It doesn't matter what specific detail is meant by 'return', he will still be the same individual.

How about you actually read the post I made on Bear's discussion board, the evidence that Gravemind either is the Timeless One or is being used as a conduit for the Timeless One is irrefutible.

  • 12.28.2011 5:06 AM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

I had a look through your post ajw, awesome work. I think I really agree with the allusion to the Mouth of Sauron in LOTR; the Gravemind is simply the means of direction and communication for the Timeless One. If one bears in mind the idea that TO is an infected Precursor (infected by the Flood powder, I believe, which was found upon the unidentified ships by ancient humanity), then one could easily see the TO using the Precursor idea of neural physics to relay directives to his "Gravemind mouth" across the galaxy.

My only gripe with my own theory is that with the firing of the Halo, TO's ability to communicate with a Gravemind should have been devastated.

  • 12.28.2011 5:51 AM PDT

Moas are the true protagonists of Reach FTW!!!!
Don't be afraid to relax a little. Enjoy life, and you will find peace and happiness.


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


You did play Halo 3, right? He says that defeat at Installation 04B is simply the addition to time before he returns, also Cryptum doesn't state that he's a Precursor, the Timeless One himself says he's a Precursor. What else is he? A master manipulator, we've no evidence other than his word.

you don't understand. by "return" he means the next time the flood have gained sufficient enough biomass to create an entirely new Gravemind, not the one from the original trilogy
however, i did not say it was not entirely impossible that the Timeless One did not, at one point, be absorbed by the flood.


So why does he not refer to the whole of the Flood when he says that then? He talks specifically as an independant individual.

Also, each Gravemind retains the same identity and memories as the previous one, Gravemind in Halo 2 and 3 speaks as if he's impossibly old, he talks of consuming an entire galaxy before and that he has "listened through rock and metal and time". He was destroyd on High Charity yet he was being rebuilt on Installation 04B, yet he still retained the same memory and identity as the previous body. It doesn't matter what specific detail is meant by 'return', he will still be the same individual.

How about you actually read the post I made on Bear's discussion board, the evidence that Gravemind either is the Timeless One or is being used as a conduit for the Timeless One is irrefutible.

I did read your post, and it was a good one at that. But you're forgetting that the gravemind is nothing more than the collection of all the knowledge of the flood combined. The Gravemind IS the flood

  • 12.28.2011 6:05 AM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.


*is still chuckling at you telling him his own story and Chronarch*

[Edited on 12.28.2011 6:38 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 6:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.


*is still chuckling at you telling him his own story and Chronarch*
Meh. He was doing that just to give proof and back up his theory.

I'm still thinking about the question he asked though.... "Are you in fact... a Gravemind?"

  • 12.28.2011 7:22 AM PDT


Posted by: GhostLink2401
ONE gravemind is dead. And even then, we don't even know if Halo was able to completely fire. Apparently blowing up High Charity didn't do -blam!-, so maybe GM is tougher than we give him credit for.

Remember, the Forerunners had to result to mass pan-species Xenocide in order to wipe out the flood. Halo was literally the LAST thing they could come up with. Nothing else was effective. You think blowing up the Ark completely killed GM?


The Gravemind as we know it is a non-corporeal entity that dictates the Flood. It's consciousness (which is to say, it's entire being) IS the Flood, and the Flood is its body so to speak. So long as there is Flood, the Gravemind exists. This lead me to believe that the Mind may be some sort of a mouth piece for the Primordial, at the very least a representative in a way, but personally, I believe the Primordial to be projecting his mind into the Flood creature in order to control them, and also hide himself from the galaxy behind the alias of Gravemind.

@OP.

There is overwhelming evidence pointing to the fact that Primordial (or the TO) is the Gravemind. You're also assuming the Gravemind is even dead/capable of dying. He himself said at the end of Halo 3 that firing the Halo ring wouldn't kill him, only delay him.


Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.

Posted by: Tshade31

Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

Thank you for the comment that should end this discussion.
But it won't and everyone will just start talking about whether GM survived or not


You did play Halo 3, right? He says that defeat at Installation 04B is simply the addition to time before he returns, also Cryptum doesn't state that he's a Precursor, the Timeless One himself says he's a Precursor. What else is he? A master manipulator, we've no evidence other than his word.

you don't understand. by "return" he means the next time the flood have gained sufficient enough biomass to create an entirely new Gravemind, not the one from the original trilogy
however, i did not say it was not entirely impossible that the Timeless One did not, at one point, be absorbed by the flood.


This is his exact quote:

"Like water I ebb and flow; defeat is simply an addition of time, to a sentence to a fate I never deserved, but you...imposed"

He says nothing about "returning" as another Mind, he is talking as an individual that he has been imprisoned or sentenced to a fate, and that the Rings can only lengthen that sentence, not kill him. He says nothing about the Flood creating a "new" Mind, which is pointless to talk about anyway since each succesive Mind has the same memories and knowledge as the old one. Really there isn't a single ounce of difference between the two.

[Edited on 12.28.2011 7:39 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 7:33 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: ajw34307
I think you should read my post on Greg Bear's discussion board and see his reply.


*is still chuckling at you telling him his own story and Chronarch*


I saw that awhile ago and your condense version of my list seems to be spot on. And he (we) aren't "telling him his own story" we are analyzing it and putting the pieces together. Then again I did tell him the Mind is[/b[ the precursor, something he clearly already knows.



[b]Posted by:
redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.

When? I remember the prisoner stating he was one despite it being said chapters earlier that the humans didn't believe it. Like a bad guy would never lie to mess with you.

  • 12.28.2011 8:20 AM PDT

I agree with that the prisoner could very well be lying about being a precursor but if so then what is he? Also what is to say when he was released from his prison and escaped on the halo that he only released the flood and left knowing what the were capable of as ( if he were precursor) he created the flood.

[Edited on 12.28.2011 9:12 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 9:09 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Jimmy Shmo16
I agree with that the prisoner could very well be lying about being a precursor but if so then what is he? Also what is to say when he was released from his prison and escaped on the halo that he only released the flood and left knowing what the were capable of as ( if he were precursor) he created the flood.


An aberration(which was stated in cryptum)if not a creation of the precursors.

[Edited on 12.28.2011 9:17 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 9:15 AM PDT

If the precursors created him and then locked him in a cage why would he talk as if he was one wouldn't he hate the precursors?

  • 12.28.2011 9:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Because the precursors didn't lock him in the cage, and if he is a creation he might have a natural obsession with them.

  • 12.28.2011 9:26 AM PDT

He was locked in a precursor style prison who else would lock him in it?

  • 12.28.2011 9:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

forerunners and or humans.

  • 12.28.2011 9:36 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Or the San'Shyuum with their smexual allure... :P

[Edited on 12.28.2011 9:40 AM PST]

  • 12.28.2011 9:37 AM PDT

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