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Subject: The timeless one is not the grave mind...
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: qirahs
I understand why many people don't want the TO to be the gravemind, as that would be a very lame transformation for someone as bad@$$ as the TO. The gravemind, no matter what 343 does about it, was always lack luster. Bungie could have made it into a much cooler enemy, but they missed the mark, and he was always underwhelming for some reason. And the fact that players already know what it feels like to defeat him (halo 3 ending).

The mouthpiece theory is a much better alternative, it makes sense that the gravemind is just the voice of the TO, rather than the TO itself. People argue that the ability to command the flood is a good enough reason for the TO to be the gravemind. But no matter which way you look at them, the flood are just not THAT great. . .

Greg Bear and 343i are probably banging their heads right now trying to come up with a valid, non BS explanation as to how the forerunner could have possibly been beaten by the flood. Even with mendicant Bias on their side, and that BS excuse that the forerunner "waited too long to treat the flood as an enemy". . . its still a stretch. We all have fought the flood for 3 games, we all have defeated them (although it may have been temporary). The TO becoming one of the flood is very underwhelming.

In my humble opinion, The TO is much more frightening as TO, not the gravemind. The way the didact and the confirmer pissed their pants talking about him escaping, puts his power level well over 1 billion, let alone 9000. The gravemind in this scenario, is about as strong as yamcha.


So much misinformation in this i don't even know what to tackle first.


Remember in cryptum when bornstellar's mom "just" said "the flood is a stellar illness that appeared in the outer colonies"? The forerunners Arrogantly ignored the flood because they thought "Well, those Dirt-Beasts beat this thing so we should have no issue" thus, they didn't pay attention to it. Not to mention they were fighting the war in secret because they didn't want to admit they were weaker than something.
They also didn't just "fix" humanity and make amends after they found out the reason humanity attacked them; had they done that and asked for the cure they would have been fine.
There is so much subtext and significance with that, which is why i love this "Ancient Era". I feel like you would have to break things down at a subatomic level to truly appreciate it.


The only reason we "beat" the flood is because they were contained and we acted right away. If the flood weren't contained on the rings we wouldn't have "won". Don't even get me started on how stupid the Gravemind is.
Again, There is an Element with the TO being the mind that you will understand soon enough.

  • 12.31.2011 8:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

So much misinformation in this i don't even know what to tackle first.


Remember in cryptum when bornstellar's mom "just" said "the flood is a stellar illness that appeared in the outer colonies"? The forerunners Arrogantly ignored the flood because they thought "Well, those Dirt-Beasts beat this thing so we should have no issue" thus, they didn't pay attention to it. Not to mention they were fighting the war in secret because they didn't want to admit they were weaker than something.
They also didn't just "fix" humanity and make amends after they found out the reason humanity attacked them; had they done that and asked for the cure they would have been fine.
There is so much subtext and significance with that, which is why i love this "Ancient Era". I feel like you would have to break things down at a subatomic level to truly appreciate it.


The only reason we "beat" the flood is because they were contained and we acted right away. If the flood weren't contained on the rings we wouldn't have "won". Don't even get me started on how stupid the Gravemind is.
Again, There is an Element with the TO being the mind that you will understand soon enough.


This explanation of how the forerunner lost is exactly what angers me, they're making mistakes that even we 21st century humans consider pathetic. Such an advanced civilization that has tens of thousands of years of experience over us, all their wisdom, are making gross underestimations such as this? Their method of attack and just frankly, how they deal with this situation is very unrealistic for a tier-1 species.

As you said "The only reason we "beat" the flood is because they were contained and we acted right away". The forerunner military might, in all their brilliance could not even determine the severity of the situation after losing entire planets (albeit low population ones) even though the flood were uncoordinated and weak.

Where as even the absent minded elites knew all too well that a single spore can destroy an entire species; afterwards they proceeded to glass everything (that halo 3 cutscene). Surely the forerunner's scanners and scientists, with their tier-1 tech, could easily come to this conclusion within minutes of the outbreak. Instead they have pitiful political squabbles, and pathetic superiority complexes clouding their so-called "enlightened" judgement.

Bottom line, is that the forerunner were pathetic and weak.

lol, and yes the gravemind is stupid. . .

[Edited on 01.01.2012 12:30 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 12:25 PM PDT

DO NOT READ BELOW IF YOU DONT WANT BIG PARTS OF HALO: PRIMORDIUM EXPLAINED


-----------------------------------------------------------]





YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED






An update with Primordium information, TO is not gravemind but they are one in the same. Now now, let me explain. In Primordium it is said that TO is the last of this kind and that the flood and precursor are one in the same.

It is also explained that a gravemind is just the culmination of multiple flood, on Installation 07 in promordium it is explained that when flood infects forerunners they try and join together to make one unit essentially and a gravemind is just a big collection of these joins.

[Edited on 01.01.2012 2:27 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 2:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: redm0nkey
Cryptum clearly states that The Timeless one is a Precursor.


I agree that The Timeless one and Gravemind are too different beings. Their physical description is also different.

  • 01.01.2012 6:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: qirahs

Posted by: grey101

So much misinformation in this i don't even know what to tackle first.


Remember in cryptum when bornstellar's mom "just" said "the flood is a stellar illness that appeared in the outer colonies"? The forerunners Arrogantly ignored the flood because they thought "Well, those Dirt-Beasts beat this thing so we should have no issue" thus, they didn't pay attention to it. Not to mention they were fighting the war in secret because they didn't want to admit they were weaker than something.
They also didn't just "fix" humanity and make amends after they found out the reason humanity attacked them; had they done that and asked for the cure they would have been fine.
There is so much subtext and significance with that, which is why i love this "Ancient Era". I feel like you would have to break things down at a subatomic level to truly appreciate it.


The only reason we "beat" the flood is because they were contained and we acted right away. If the flood weren't contained on the rings we wouldn't have "won". Don't even get me started on how stupid the Gravemind is.
Again, There is an Element with the TO being the mind that you will understand soon enough.


This explanation of how the forerunner lost is exactly what angers me, they're making mistakes that even we 21st century humans consider pathetic. Such an advanced civilization that has tens of thousands of years of experience over us, all their wisdom, are making gross underestimations such as this? Their method of attack and just frankly, how they deal with this situation is very unrealistic for a tier-1 species.

As you said "The only reason we "beat" the flood is because they were contained and we acted right away". The forerunner military might, in all their brilliance could not even determine the severity of the situation after losing entire planets (albeit low population ones) even though the flood were uncoordinated and weak.

Where as even the absent minded elites knew all too well that a single spore can destroy an entire species; afterwards they proceeded to glass everything (that halo 3 cutscene). Surely the forerunner's scanners and scientists, with their tier-1 tech, could easily come to this conclusion within minutes of the outbreak. Instead they have pitiful political squabbles, and pathetic superiority complexes clouding their so-called "enlightened" judgement.

Bottom line, is that the forerunner were pathetic and weak.

lol, and yes the gravemind is stupid. . .



You aren't understanding the subtext of the novel. PM me and we can talk about it.

  • 01.01.2012 7:02 PM PDT

Posted by: DrPepperlova07

Posted by: GhostLink2401
ONE gravemind is dead. And even then, we don't even know if Halo was able to completely fire. Apparently blowing up High Charity didn't do -blam!-, so maybe GM is tougher than we give him credit for.

Remember, the Forerunners had to result to mass pan-species Xenocide in order to wipe out the flood. Halo was literally the LAST thing they could come up with. Nothing else waseffective. You think blowing up the Ark completely killed GM?


Actually...im not sure if im remembering correctly but the Halo's WEREN'T the last thing the Forerunners came up with. Read Halo: Cryptum, it will explain alot. For example The Didact came up with the shield world approach to eliminate the flood. I dont have very good memory with these types of things but it gets complicated with Forerunner politics involving The Master builder or something. Forgive me if what I say isnt accurate


If you read my post previously it explains it but there will be MULTIPLE graveminds and all they are is the culmuniation of multiple flood forms, Based on primordium information anyway. Who knows, it could select what individuals to make part of the larger unit by the information they contain.

The shield worlds were explained in cryptum but they are explained in much more depth in Grasslands. Basically its a solarsystem hidden from this dimension but they have considerable defensive capabilities (exactly the same as Halo, just their weapon is much less powerful and it meant mainly as a place to store their civilisation and wipe out the flood if they see any

[Edited on 01.01.2012 8:45 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 8:39 PM PDT

Glory and fame, blood is our name!
Souls full of thunder, hearts of steel!
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Sworn to avenge our fallen brothers!
Sons of the gods, today we shall die.
Open Valhalla's door!
Let the battle begin, with swords in the wind! Hail Gods of War!

I take back what I said. Having actually read Cryptum, it's pretty obvious what the TO/ Charum Hakkor prisoner really is.

  • 01.01.2012 10:45 PM PDT

-Dead Orbit..

THE TIMELESS ONE IS THE PRECURSORS!! they sent the flood to destroy the forerunners as an act of revenge.

  • 01.02.2012 10:08 AM PDT


Posted by: Danger wasp 009
THE TIMELESS ONE IS THE PRECURSORS!! they sent the flood to destroy the forerunners as an act of revenge.


I KNEW IT! I knew it I knew it I knew it I knew it!

  • 01.02.2012 10:36 AM PDT

Posted by: Danger wasp 009
THE TIMELESS ONE IS THE PRECURSORS!! they sent the flood to destroy the forerunners as an act of revenge.


Actually they ARE the flood, they are one in the same and it was specifically mentioned by TO that it was not revenge

[Edited on 01.02.2012 11:00 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 10:59 AM PDT

-Dead Orbit..

but then who is the humanoid prisoner the forerunners held on to that is the last of its kind.

  • 01.02.2012 11:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Danger wasp 009
but then who is the humanoid prisoner the forerunners held on to that is the last of its kind.


That was the precursor/timeless one/primordium/Flood (Yes they are all one in the same)

  • 01.02.2012 11:31 AM PDT

-Dead Orbit..

i have a feeling that precursor/primordium/flood/timeless one will be the bad guy in the halo reclaimer trilogy

  • 01.02.2012 11:33 AM PDT


Posted by: Danger wasp 009
i have a feeling that precursor/primordium/flood/timeless one will be the bad guy in the halo reclaimer trilogy


It can't be it is now dead

  • 01.02.2012 11:39 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: Urban GFX
Posted by: Danger wasp 009
i have a feeling that precursor/primordium/flood/timeless one will be the bad guy in the halo reclaimer trilogy


It can't be it is now dead

Unless it is the consciousness that was also known as the Timeless One, in which case it cannot be destroyed and can continue on.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 11:45 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 11:44 AM PDT

-Dead Orbit..

maybe its dna structure is immune to the firing of the halos

  • 01.02.2012 11:45 AM PDT


Posted by: Danger wasp 009
maybe its dna structure is immune to the firing of the halos


How would that help when he diadect turned it into dust, unless it some how formed again from the dust but I doubt that based on where it is.

  • 01.02.2012 11:50 AM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

Let me get this straight...the Precursors ARE The Flood? They are the same species, not seperate? The Flood Super Cells are Precursors?

I find that hard to acknowledge....

Or did the Precursors create the Flood and assimilate themselves into the Flood species to exact revenge on the Forerunners?

  • 01.02.2012 11:55 AM PDT


Posted by: CoolCJ24
Let me get this straight...the Precursors ARE The Flood? They are the same species, not seperate? The Flood Super Cells are Precursors?

I find that hard to acknowledge....

Or did the Precursors create the Flood and assimilate themselves into the Flood species to exact revenge on the Forerunners?

Posted by: CoolCJ24
Let me get this straight...the Precursors ARE The Flood? They are the same species, not seperate? The Flood Super Cells are Precursors?

I find that hard to acknowledge....

Or did the Precursors create the Flood and assimilate themselves into the Flood species to exact revenge on the Forerunners?


The Precursor quotes as much.

"We are the flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds . . . no end to war, grief or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries . . . unity again, and wisdom. Until then - Sweetness"

- Timeless One/Precursor talking to the brevet mutation Diadect and the Chakas monitor

  • 01.02.2012 12:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Was the color of the monitor chakas turned into ever stated?

And i would love to see how the precursors could affect the entire universe, because the flood sure can't.

  • 01.02.2012 12:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Urban GFX

Posted by: CoolCJ24
Let me get this straight...the Precursors ARE The Flood? They are the same species, not seperate? The Flood Super Cells are Precursors?

I find that hard to acknowledge....

Or did the Precursors create the Flood and assimilate themselves into the Flood species to exact revenge on the Forerunners?

Posted by: CoolCJ24
Let me get this straight...the Precursors ARE The Flood? They are the same species, not seperate? The Flood Super Cells are Precursors?

I find that hard to acknowledge....

Or did the Precursors create the Flood and assimilate themselves into the Flood species to exact revenge on the Forerunners?


The Precursor quotes as much.

"We are the flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds . . . no end to war, grief or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries . . . unity again, and wisdom. Until then - Sweetness"

- Timeless One/Precursor talking to the brevet mutation Diadect and the Chakas monitor
:D

So we have the UNSC asking about the Didact, meaning something is happening that involves him, hinting that he's likely still alive and the Timeless One saying that in 100,000 years something big is gonna happen.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 3:01 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:51 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Then who the hell is going to be the real villian of the reclaimer trilogy if the Timeless One is nothing more then a gravemind??

My curiosity is skyrocketing now.

Edit:Nevermind,just read the quote of the TO who pretty much stated that something will happen after 100000 years,during the Halo game time.
Amazing!

Maybe the creature at the end of the concept art trailer is a new evolved Flood form.



[Edited on 01.02.2012 2:22 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 2:12 PM PDT

You've got to wonder then, who were the one who breathed life into humanity and the Forerunners if the Precursors are the Flood? Their likeness in appearance and behaviour are too similar for it to just be a coincidence; someone had to be a genetic engineer, unless they both descend from a Primordial Eve of sorts.

Unless the Flood created humanity and the Forerunners, letting them expand so they could be a source of food and new ideas to advance their own species much later.

  • 01.02.2012 2:19 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: Urban GFX
The Precursor quotes as much.

"We are the flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds . . . no end to war, grief or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries . . . unity again, and wisdom. Until then - Sweetness"

- Timeless One/Precursor talking to the brevet mutation Diadect and the Chakas monitor


I might be just over-analysing this guys, but when TO says "we are the Flood" could he be talking about all life? I.e. he's saying we are all potentially just Flood beings and soon will be? After all he doesn't seem to say "We, the Precursors, are the Flood".

  • 01.03.2012 3:03 AM PDT

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