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  • Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Chester Duncan

I agree with what you're saying, but realistically speaking, Halsey was the only way they were getting out of the micro-Dyson sphere. If anything, Lucy was just taking a spartan-style toddler tantrum; mad, but with no intention of killing someone.


Realistically speaking do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you ever babysat? When a child grabs your nose or pulls you hair it hurts, they do not meant to hurt you but they don't now they they are actually pretty strong.
There was a report saying they are the strongest young mammal when it comes on a pound for pound or size basis (i forgot which and what it said exactly).


Again, For a spartan to be pissed off and punch a normal human in the face and only to give a black eye makes no sense. you can keep over analyzing it all you want but that situation needs to be removed from the book entirely. Lucy hit her with more than enough force to kill her. The SIIIs have no connection to halsey so she is of no importance to them.

The Engineers would have edited the spartans translators so they could talk to them thus removing your "halsey was the only one to get them out" shadow.

  • 01.10.2012 2:20 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.


Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Chester Duncan

I agree with what you're saying, but realistically speaking, Halsey was the only way they were getting out of the micro-Dyson sphere. If anything, Lucy was just taking a spartan-style toddler tantrum; mad, but with no intention of killing someone. It'd be like losing it on your best friend. You make rough him up a bit, but at the end of the day, you still want him around.

In John's scenario, which you were describing, the ODSTs had the intention of hurting John. While he had conflicts between natural instinct and respect for the military and the chain of command (he didn't know the rank of the ODSTs), the order by the sergeant to step into the ring and natural instincts took over, and he proceeded to beat them to the point of death, all on what he considered to be "sensible" orders. Though I can see where you're coming from, the two scenarios are too different.
I don't think Lucy was thinking about getting out of the sphere. She wanted Halsey to stop but she wouldn't. So she attacked her. Also for the second part you got mine mixed up with another Grey's. Mine was training in hand to hand and killing the DI's without trying or thinking about it.


We don't really know exactly what she was thinking, other than that she wanted Halsey to stop, as you said. Which is why this is all speculation. My argument is just as logical as the next person's, simply because we don't know for sure.

You're right about my goof-up. I know what you're talking about know. My thoughts on that is that the augmentations were essentially hyper-puberty, and so the spartans did not know their own strength, as this was in the weeks and months following their augmentations, if memory serves. They probably did not have a real grasp on their own capabilities at that point. Lucy, however, had a considerably longer time than that prior to punching Halsey, and so most likely had a better grasp of her capabilities.

  • 01.10.2012 2:24 PM PDT


Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Chester Duncan

I agree with what you're saying, but realistically speaking, Halsey was the only way they were getting out of the micro-Dyson sphere. If anything, Lucy was just taking a spartan-style toddler tantrum; mad, but with no intention of killing someone. It'd be like losing it on your best friend. You make rough him up a bit, but at the end of the day, you still want him around.

In John's scenario, which you were describing, the ODSTs had the intention of hurting John. While he had conflicts between natural instinct and respect for the military and the chain of command (he didn't know the rank of the ODSTs), the order by the sergeant to step into the ring and natural instincts took over, and he proceeded to beat them to the point of death, all on what he considered to be "sensible" orders. Though I can see where you're coming from, the two scenarios are too different.
I don't think Lucy was thinking about getting out of the sphere. She wanted Halsey to stop but she wouldn't. So she attacked her. Also for the second part you got mine mixed up with another Grey's. Mine was training in hand to hand and killing the DI's without trying or thinking about it.


We don't really know exactly what she was thinking, other than that she wanted Halsey to stop, as you said. Which is why this is all speculation. My argument is just as logical as the next person's, simply because we don't know for sure.

You're right about my goof-up. I know what you're talking about know. My thoughts on that is that the augmentations were essentially hyper-puberty, and so the spartans did not know their own strength, as this was in the weeks and months following their augmentations, if memory serves. They probably did not have a real grasp on their own capabilities at that point. Lucy, however, had a considerably longer time than that prior to punching Halsey, and so most likely had a better grasp of her capabilities.
Anywayz...really I could care less. I thought Glasslands was just one big -blam!- up of a Halo novel..

  • 01.10.2012 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Xerzaph
Posted by: superiorarsenal
Genes determine the effects/severity of the Bioaugmentations. The outcome of said augs is what determines if you can wear MJOLNIR. If S-IIIs weren't modified as heavily as S-IIs(supported by less restrictions and Mendez saying "we enhanced them SOME" some as in comparison to the S-IIs) it is entirely POSSIBLE that they can't wear MJOLNIR. WE don't know if they can or not, so you can't say that they can without a doubt, which is my whole argument. For some reason you just ignore the entire parts of mt post talking about genes and bioaugs, and jump straight to the conclusion that I think as long as you have the right genes you can wear MJOLNIR.

I'm not saying they outright CAN'T.
I'm saying it's POSSIBLE that they can't.

(BTW, the bones are not indestructable/unbreakable, for the IIs or IIIs)

They didn't make the Mjolnir suits at the very threshold of what a Spartan II can withstand, that would just be stupid. Anyone with the correct neural implant could use a Mjolnir suit, but only someone with powerful enough physical augmentations could survive it. A spartan III would fit comfortably within what the suit can deal out.


When testing Mark IV, they didn't KNOW the threshold. Hence why everyone was nervous about John trying it on after they just saw someone get ripped apart by it. We don't know where that threshold is. All we know it is somewhere between normal and S-II. S-IIIs are somewhere between that aswell, but we since we niether know where they are or where the threshold is, we can't say they can wear it without a doubt.

  • 01.10.2012 2:30 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Chester Duncan

I agree with what you're saying, but realistically speaking, Halsey was the only way they were getting out of the micro-Dyson sphere. If anything, Lucy was just taking a spartan-style toddler tantrum; mad, but with no intention of killing someone.


Realistically speaking do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you ever babysat? When a child grabs your nose or pulls you hair it hurts, they do not meant to hurt you but they don't now they they are actually pretty strong.
There was a report saying they are the strongest young mammal when it comes on a pound for pound or size basis (i forgot which and what it said exactly).


Again, For a spartan to be pissed off and punch a normal human in the face and only to give a black eye makes no sense. you can keep over analyzing it all you want but that situation needs to be removed from the book entirely. Lucy hit her with more than enough force to kill her. The SIIIs have no connection to halsey so she is of no importance to them.

The Engineers would have edited the spartans translators so they could talk to them thus removing your "halsey was the only one to get them out" shadow.


My "spartan-style toddler tantrum" was a layman's term. If you have a better way of describing it, then, by all means, share with the forum. Going further into your post, please read my reply to Chester Duncan, Lucy probably has a very good understanding on her capabilities, whereas toddlers, in your example, do not. Furthermore, Lucy was mentally unstable, as I have stated before. Plus, they did not have their medication, which only compounded to the problem. Finally, if I recall correctly, Halsey was the only one who was able to communicate effectively with the Huragok. Sure, any one of those could have done the same end goal, but it would have taken much longer. Halsey knew the right questions to ask, no one else did.

  • 01.10.2012 2:32 PM PDT
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Lucy lost ALL control. She was clearly not restraining herself at all. Not to mention the "sent a shockwave through her arm" part. If a S-II had hit with the force to send a shockwave through their arm, they quite literally would have crushed the skull, even without MJOLNIR.

  • 01.10.2012 2:37 PM PDT
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BTW, Lucy doesn't need medication. That was ONLY Gamma company that needed it.

  • 01.10.2012 2:39 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
BTW, Lucy doesn't need medication. That was ONLY Gamma company that needed it.
True that brotha! haha kidding. Yes it was only gamma. After both Alpha and Beta died off, Kurt wanted to give Gamma a better chance at living.


BTW anyone else find it funny that Lucy goes ape-blam!- on Halsey but the Gamma Spartans who need meds or else they will really go ape-blam!- are always calm?

[Edited on 01.10.2012 2:46 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 2:43 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

Project CHRYSANTHEMUM was applied to all Spartan-III companies. That is Alpha, Beta, and Gamma companies, and would have been used for Delta Company, should it have been created. Therefore, they all would have used medication. It even said in Glasslands that she needed her medication, and she was in Beta Company.

Edit: My bad, Gamma only

[Edited on 01.10.2012 3:00 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 2:51 PM PDT


Posted by: UphillMercury
Project CHRYSANTHEMUM was applied to all Spartan-III companies. That is Alpha, Beta, and Gamma companies, and would have been used for Delta Company, should it have been created. Therefore, they all would have used medication. It even said in Glasslands that she needed her medication, and she was in Beta Company.
Sorry but your wrong. I just checked the book and it was going done to Gamma and only Gamma.

[Edited on 01.10.2012 2:58 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 2:55 PM PDT
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One question. How do injections graft ceramics onto bones?

  • 01.10.2012 3:13 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

Posted by: superiorarsenal
One question. How do injections graft ceramics onto bones?


It probably doesn't graft, so much as coat the bones, as there is no surgery involved to expose the bones, as in the S-II augmentations.

  • 01.10.2012 3:24 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UphillMercury
Posted by: superiorarsenal
One question. How do injections graft ceramics onto bones?


It probably doesn't graft, so much as coat the bones, as there is no surgery involved to expose the bones, as in the S-II augmentations.


This, the injection probably reinforces the bones to the point of making them nigh unbreakable.

  • 01.10.2012 4:15 PM PDT
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enough with this "unbreakable" stuff. SPARTAN bones have broken before. The grafting causes them to be resistant to some small arms fire and very very resistant to breaking. But they are FAR from unbreakable.

  • 01.10.2012 4:27 PM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

MC is a spartan-II


Thread.end(true)

  • 01.10.2012 4:37 PM PDT
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A S-II with MJOLNIR would actually be practically invulnerable to S-IIIs in SPI, well at least if they are all equipped with small-medium arms).

  • 01.10.2012 4:41 PM PDT

Depends on their experience. For example Noble Six could likely hold his or her own against a group of Spartan II's for a time, considering his/her ability to take on multiple Elite Zealots in hand to hand fighting. Granted, all the combatants had armor on in this case ( Although the Elites were the only ones armed, and eventually overwhelm Six ).

The Spartans likely wouldn't fight each other, knowing the horrors of the war. But in this special case, 3 Spartan III's who were highly experienced, as well as a Spartan II in the same manner, all of them with no armor or equipment: The Spartan II would be overwhelmed. Your higher physical abilities don't matter much on open ground against superior numbers, which would strip the point of said greater physical abilities.

Of course however, we may never know.

[Edited on 01.10.2012 5:38 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 5:35 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: The Seraphim
Depends on their experience. For example Noble Six could likely hold his or her own against a group of Spartan II's for a time, considering his/her ability to take on multiple Elite Zealots in hand to hand fighting.


Are you mental? there is no way he would be able to fight several spartan IIs at once, and if you call that scene where he is getting knocked around "Fighting" then something is seriously wrong with you.

  • 01.10.2012 6:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Seraphim
Depends on their experience. For example Noble Six could likely hold his or her own against a group of Spartan II's for a time, considering his/her ability to take on multiple Elite Zealots in hand to hand fighting. Granted, all the combatants had armor on in this case ( Although the Elites were the only ones armed, and eventually overwhelm Six ).

The Spartans likely wouldn't fight each other, knowing the horrors of the war. But in this special case, 3 Spartan III's who were highly experienced, as well as a Spartan II in the same manner, all of them with no armor or equipment: The Spartan II would be overwhelmed. Your higher physical abilities don't matter much on open ground against superior numbers, which would strip the point of said greater physical abilities.

Of course however, we may never know.


NOBLE 6 wouldn't stand a chance against multiple S-IIs, just like Chief wouldn't stand a chance against NOBLE Team.

A S-II with MJOLNIR would easily be capable of taking on 3 S-IIIs in SPI. Everybody wanted a "realistic" fight in Master Chief vs NOBLE 6, so wouldn't that be a S-II in MJOLNIR Mark VI vs 3 S-IIIs in SPI in this case? Unless of course we just keep nerfing the advantages of the side you don't want to win.

Average S-II? Equipped with MJOLNIR(Varient depends on what timeline you want to take it from)
Average S-III? Equipped with SPI

The most "realistic" scenario would indeed have a S-II in MJOLNIR and the S-IIIs in SPI.

  • 01.10.2012 6:53 PM PDT

Join The Spartan I Project today!

SIP is here to help you achieve a 1750 gamer score, unlocking all of the armor permutations for both Spartans and Elites.

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/sip/group/joingroup.aspx

spartan II kills 1 and throws corpse into the others. spartan II wins

  • 01.10.2012 10:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
If it was then i wouldn't have said it wasn't. There are no "psychological" aspects of what happen, Lucy punched her with (what should have been) enough force to break her face and did not. John killed those ODSTs without thinking about it, do you want to state the psychological aspects of that encounter? Because they are very similar.

I have broken Peoples noses and even caused retina's to become detached. with a single punched, and have had it done to me in return. So For lucy to put that much for into it and halsey not even have a broken nose is pathetic.

It's blatantly obvious that she didn't punch with full force, a spartan III can kill an unshielded elite, or are we going to disregard Halo: Reach simply because the story-line didn't appear to follow canon?

And if she did punch full force, then either Halsey experimented with ceramic ossification before using it on Spartans, or the author made a mistake, which is very unlikely.

  • 01.11.2012 4:25 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Xerzaph
Posted by: grey101
If it was then i wouldn't have said it wasn't. There are no "psychological" aspects of what happen, Lucy punched her with (what should have been) enough force to break her face and did not. John killed those ODSTs without thinking about it, do you want to state the psychological aspects of that encounter? Because they are very similar.

I have broken Peoples noses and even caused retina's to become detached. with a single punched, and have had it done to me in return. So For lucy to put that much for into it and halsey not even have a broken nose is pathetic.

It's blatantly obvious that she didn't punch with full force, a spartan III can kill an unshielded elite, or are we going to disregard Halo: Reach simply because the story-line didn't appear to follow canon?

And if she did punch full force, then either Halsey experimented with ceramic ossification before using it on Spartans, or the author made a mistake, which is very unlikely.


According to other members here, Traviss admitted that she did not fully research on the Halo lore before writing the book, so she obviously did mistake or rather a ton of them.

  • 01.11.2012 5:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Grizzwizz
I think even one Spartan III could take on a Spartan II if they played their cards right. Considering that they would have to go on a lot more dangerous missions they would need to be better trained to get their objectives done. Granted they always died but my point still stands.

The spartan III's went on suicide missions yes however, that doesnt neccesarily mean they were more dangerous. You have to take into account the different training and the different equipment they were given. Also, they didnt have to go on a lot more, the Spartan II's went on hundreds of missions each. In response to the OP, yes, 3 spartan 3's would beat a spartan 2 if you could somehow make a fair and average test about it. They work better as a team so their individual lack in certain area's would be made up for through teamwork

  • 01.11.2012 5:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xerzaph
It's blatantly obvious that she didn't punch with full force.


She wouldn't even have to, john killed the ODST's without meaning to. The fact she hit her with enough for to create a shock wave says enough.

And Please don't talk about halo:Reach, and the answer to that is yes, we came to an agreement that it is ONI propaganda.

  • 01.11.2012 6:17 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
doesn't change the fact that the only reason she was even looking at him was because of his genes. She means by that quote, that though they may have the REQUIRED genes, emphasis on REQUIRED, they could have had a horrible up-brining, or were in an accident that crippled them. Environmental factors do apply, but ultimately it was the S-IIs genes that was why Halsey was looking at them.

Yes, but the point is that genes are not everything; you have gone as far as saying that the genes are the difference between who can and cannot wear MJOLNIR.


If Genes weren't everything then there wouldn't be a spartan program.

In my opinion, if you took children who were six and put them through that training, augmented them, and gave them super exoskeletons, they would be Spartans. Granted perhaps not as intelligent or strong as genetically screened Spartans, but the only thing I'm suggesting here is that all Spartans with the proper augmentations are able to wear MJOLNIR.

Maybe not Gamma Company of the IIIs because they are young, but Tom and Lucy for sure.

  • 01.12.2012 12:34 PM PDT