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This topic has moved here: Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
  • Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

They [game informer] say that:

Carter is 208.3 cm
Jun is 210.8 cm
Emile is 208.4 cm
Kat is 205.7 cm
Jorge is 223.5 cm

They don't really say if it's in or out of armor, they just say it's their height.

  • 01.01.2012 1:44 AM PDT

I would assume those measurements are in armour.

  • 01.01.2012 4:04 AM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: zak2014


...it is a statistical near-impossibility that only 75 people have those genetic markers.



What? You do remember that it was limited to 75 children due to funding and time constraints, right? Those Genetic Markers make a big difference too. The original SPARTAN II program candidates were selected from a pool much larger than you're thinking, and the final numbers were again whittled down before they even reached the magic number of 75 for induction.

The Genetics play a part on several factors, and ironically [or not] the selection process is not dissimilar to that of the ancient Spartan culture, but rather than lecture you, I'd implore that you seek out this information for yourself, it makes for an interesting read in general :)

As a basic idea of how the genetics worked, the SPARTAN II candidates were physically and mentally superior to other children their age.

Think of them as being like a thoroughbred horse.

Strength is something that can be built into the body, but when it is a natural factor, you'll find an animal [human or otherwise] is more likely to perform in/survive the most extreme conditions. If it's in their nature, rather than programmed in, they take to change in a different way.

Remember:

SII=Thoroughbred Horse

SIII were comprised of refugees and orphaned children. The program had a scatter-shot approach to selection were by increasing the number of inductees provided a greater number of potential graduates [SPARTANs who didn't washout]. There would have been very little individual selection, and from memory, that is mentioned in the book, The Ghosts of Onyx.

When panning for gold, if you load a shovels worth of dirt into your pan, your chances of finding gold increase considerably more than if you load your pan with a handful of dirt.





  • 01.01.2012 4:20 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I do not think anyone is disputing that genetic filtering had an effect, only the degree by which it had an effect.

I think grey said earlier that a control group would be necessary to judge the results. In a way, the Spartan IIIs are that control group, but of course there are some discrepancies because of societal differences between the children as well as the training regime being different.



[Edited on 01.01.2012 6:28 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 6:27 PM PDT
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Question, what is everybody armed with? Where is this going down?

  • 01.01.2012 6:32 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.

It really depands on alot...

A spartan such as MC with mark 6 would kick the crap out of a 12 year old spartan 3 with spi armour...

But if emile were to go against kelly in hand to hand, I'd put my money on emile...

Now if noble 6 were to face kurt, that would be intresting, could go either way

  • 01.01.2012 6:32 PM PDT
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Kelly would probably crush Emile in H2H. Her speed translates to response times aswell.

  • 01.01.2012 6:34 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I do not think anyone is disputing that genetic filtering had an effect, only the degree by which it had an effect.

I think grey said earlier that a control group would be necessary to judge the results. In a way, the Spartan IIIs are that control group, but of course there are some discrepancies because of societal differences between the children as well as the training regime being different.



We would have to have the Spartan IIs then randomly augment a human (the exact same augmentations). Then we could compare the SIIs,IIIs and the human.

  • 01.01.2012 6:34 PM PDT
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The one augmentation said 300% boost to reaction times. Considering S-IIs got about a 1400% boost to reaction times I would say the effects heavily depend on genes.

  • 01.01.2012 6:37 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kelly would probably crush Emile in H2H. Her speed translates to response times aswell.

Does it???

I thought fred was the bset h2h of mcs team...

Guess kelly is then... oh wait...

  • 01.01.2012 7:04 PM PDT

"If the came to hear me beg......." IS EVIL!!!!!

"Send me out with a bang!" Sgt. Avery Johnson

This. It depends a lot since, if they all had, say, shotguns, I think a team of Noble 6, Emile, and Carter, would easily beat MC. I know that sounds dum, but I mean Noble 6 killed what, five Sangheili, with just a Assault Rifle, and a Pistol, at least two of which were Ultras I believe, and one of which was a Zealot. I doubt him, combined with Emile, and Carter would have much a problem with Mastercheif. But, it depends. What defines 'winning' in this fight? Where would it take place? What weapons? Who?

  • 01.01.2012 7:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kelly would probably crush Emile in H2H. Her speed translates to response times aswell.

Does it???

I thought fred was the bset h2h of mcs team...

Guess kelly is then... oh wait...


Enough with this Fred stuff. He was seen TWICE with knives. Once aboard the PoA, twidling one, and in Halo: Legends, weilding them like a SPARTAN should. Will and Kelly were the H2H specialists of Blue.

  • 01.01.2012 7:29 PM PDT

"If the came to hear me beg......." IS EVIL!!!!!

"Send me out with a bang!" Sgt. Avery Johnson


Posted by: superiorarsenal

Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kelly would probably crush Emile in H2H. Her speed translates to response times aswell.

Does it???

I thought fred was the bset h2h of mcs team...

Guess kelly is then... oh wait...


Enough with this Fred stuff. He was seen TWICE with knives. Once aboard the PoA, twidling one, and in Halo: Legends, weilding them like a SPARTAN should. Will and Kelly were the H2H specialists of Blue.



Well, when are Kelly and Will seen with them? I agreed she was fast, but I have always thought of her as more a scout, or just the runner, and Fred the CQC guy.

  • 01.01.2012 7:32 PM PDT
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Kelly is fast, which translates to hand-to-hand combat. While sparring with Sam, she had to intentionally slow down so he could keep up.

Will is the go to ground guy, who took on two TWO hunters at once in H2H combat and ended up killing one. More than I can say for Fred. Fred twidled a knife and took on a few elites when he dual weilded knives.

Hell, Master Chief took on a high ranking elite in H2H when the Elite had an energy sword and John had no other weapon. This was also after constantly fighting the Covenant and Flood for over 2 days straight with little, if any rest.



[Edited on 01.01.2012 7:47 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 7:44 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kelly is fast, which translates to hand-to-hand combat. While sparring with Sam, she had to intentionally slow down so he could keep up.

Will is the go to ground guy, who took on two TWO hunters at once in H2H combat and ended up killing one. More than I can say for Fred.


So your saying runner (like usian bolt) has faster reactions then a haevy weight boxer or martiel arts master???

  • 01.01.2012 7:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kelly is fast, which translates to hand-to-hand combat. While sparring with Sam, she had to intentionally slow down so he could keep up.

Will is the go to ground guy, who took on two TWO hunters at once in H2H combat and ended up killing one. More than I can say for Fred.


So your saying runner (like usian bolt) has faster reactions then a haevy weight boxer or martiel arts master???


No.

Kelly is the fastest in both speed AND H2H. She practices Zen No-Thought to hone her reflexes. Also, she intentionally had to slow down to give Sam a chance in H2H. And another example is Kelly getting the reacton boosting upgrade in First Strike, to hone her already lighting fast reflexes. What is so hard to understand?

  • 01.01.2012 7:55 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I do not think anyone is disputing that genetic filtering had an effect, only the degree by which it had an effect.

I think grey said earlier that a control group would be necessary to judge the results. In a way, the Spartan IIIs are that control group, but of course there are some discrepancies because of societal differences between the children as well as the training regime being different.



We would have to have the Spartan IIs then randomly augment a human (the exact same augmentations). Then we could compare the SIIs,IIIs and the human.

No, you would need to abduct 75 children that aren't picked because of genetic reasons, put them through the same training protocols, and same augmentations, and then compare. The IIs performance has also been heavily influenced by their training.

  • 01.01.2012 8:03 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I do not think anyone is disputing that genetic filtering had an effect, only the degree by which it had an effect.

I think grey said earlier that a control group would be necessary to judge the results. In a way, the Spartan IIIs are that control group, but of course there are some discrepancies because of societal differences between the children as well as the training regime being different.



We would have to have the Spartan IIs then randomly augment a human (the exact same augmentations). Then we could compare the SIIs,IIIs and the human.

No, you would need to abduct 75 children that aren't picked because of genetic reasons, put them through the same training protocols, and same augmentations, and then compare. The IIs performance has also been heavily influenced by their training.


I assumed that everybody understood the scientific method thus, i didn't explain it in detail plasma. Normally i get called condescending for doing what you just did.

  • 01.01.2012 8:14 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I havent read through the comments yet, but I can already predict this thread, since it's a hot topic, that it is filled with so much ignorance that it'll give me brain cancer, people siding once more with the SII'S where they clearly could not win, hence the discussion of smarter members trying to convince them otherwise.

The three Spartan III's win no doubt. They might not be as experienced as a veteran SII, but nonetheless they have the skill and coordination necesary, and most important, they have the numbers to take on a single Spartan.

Spartan III training is the same training regime SII's had, but improved, they'd know in some ways how the SII's will react to certain situations. It'll be an interesting fight, no doubt, but the SIII's will prevail no doubt about it.

  • 01.01.2012 8:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
I havent read through the comments yet, but I can already predict this thread, since it's a hot topic, that it is filled with so much ignorance that it'll give me brain cancer, people siding once more with the SII'S where they clearly could not win, hence the discussion of smarter members trying to convince them otherwise.

The three Spartan III's win no doubt. They might not be as experienced as a veteran SII, but nonetheless they have the skill and coordination necesary, and most important, they have the numbers to take on a single Spartan.

Spartan III training is the same training regime SII's had, but improved, they'd know in some ways how the SII's will react to certain situations. It'll be an interesting fight, no doubt, but the SIII's will prevail no doubt about it.


Except SPI is -blam!- when compared to MJOLNIR, and we aren't talking NOBLE S-IIIs, but regular ones I presume.

  • 01.01.2012 8:46 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Posted by: HipiO7
I havent read through the comments yet, but I can already predict this thread, since it's a hot topic, that it is filled with so much ignorance that it'll give me brain cancer, people siding once more with the SII'S where they clearly could not win, hence the discussion of smarter members trying to convince them otherwise.

The three Spartan III's win no doubt. They might not be as experienced as a veteran SII, but nonetheless they have the skill and coordination necesary, and most important, they have the numbers to take on a single Spartan.

Spartan III training is the same training regime SII's had, but improved, they'd know in some ways how the SII's will react to certain situations. It'll be an interesting fight, no doubt, but the SIII's will prevail no doubt about it.


Except SPI is -blam!- when compared to MJOLNIR, and we aren't talking NOBLE S-IIIs, but regular ones I presume.


Armor is not detailed. Thus we have to imagine they either have the same or dont have armor at all. In both cases the Spartan III's win the fight. The Spartan II would only win, and even then the SIII's still have a good chance, if he possessed MJLONIR armor and the Spartan III's SPI.

[Edited on 01.01.2012 8:49 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2012 8:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: superiorarsenal
Posted by: HipiO7
I havent read through the comments yet, but I can already predict this thread, since it's a hot topic, that it is filled with so much ignorance that it'll give me brain cancer, people siding once more with the SII'S where they clearly could not win, hence the discussion of smarter members trying to convince them otherwise.

The three Spartan III's win no doubt. They might not be as experienced as a veteran SII, but nonetheless they have the skill and coordination necesary, and most important, they have the numbers to take on a single Spartan.

Spartan III training is the same training regime SII's had, but improved, they'd know in some ways how the SII's will react to certain situations. It'll be an interesting fight, no doubt, but the SIII's will prevail no doubt about it.


Except SPI is -blam!- when compared to MJOLNIR, and we aren't talking NOBLE S-IIIs, but regular ones I presume.


Armor is not detailed. Thus we have to imagine they either have the same or dont have armor at all. In both cases the Spartan III's win the fight. The Spartan II would only win, and even then the SIII's still have a good chance, if he possessed MJLONIR armor and the Spartan III's SPI.


Why wouldn't we give them the things they commonly have? Just because the OP doesn't specify armor or weapons means they have none? So I assume they are fighting in some sort of endless void because location was not specified either.
The most common armor for S-IIs? MJOLNIR
The most common armor for S-IIIs? SPI

Granted they all have regular weapons and no side getting anything like a rocket launcher, the S-II would be nearly invincible to any small-medium caliber rounds while the S-IIIs in SPI would be taken down much easier.

  • 01.01.2012 8:54 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I'll just add that if we're talking CQC with no armor, then Kelly or Fred would be the only ones who would stand a chance. On the other hand, if the IIIs were Six or Tom, it would be a close fight.

  • 01.01.2012 8:56 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I do not think anyone is disputing that genetic filtering had an effect, only the degree by which it had an effect.

I think grey said earlier that a control group would be necessary to judge the results. In a way, the Spartan IIIs are that control group, but of course there are some discrepancies because of societal differences between the children as well as the training regime being different.



We would have to have the Spartan IIs then randomly augment a human (the exact same augmentations). Then we could compare the SIIs,IIIs and the human.

No, you would need to abduct 75 children that aren't picked because of genetic reasons, put them through the same training protocols, and same augmentations, and then compare. The IIs performance has also been heavily influenced by their training.


I assumed that everybody understood the scientific method thus, i didn't explain it in detail plasma. Normally i get called condescending for doing what you just did.

No condescension, just asking for specificity is all.

  • 01.01.2012 8:57 PM PDT
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*sigh*
Fred.Is.Not.A.H2H.Specialist

Six is essentially a S-II(Aswell as the rest of NOBLE Team minus Jorge) without the Thyroid, due to having S-II genes. Hovever, regular S-IIIs didn't get quite the enhanced effects. This is all basically in Kurt's Letter.

  • 01.01.2012 8:59 PM PDT