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  • Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II


Posted by: grey101
Halopedian isn't a source and you should know better.
It's a more credible source than Halo Nation, ironic that it's stated in both.

  • 01.04.2012 4:43 PM PDT

Waypoint Moderators aren't really Moderators, just power hungry and its goal is defend their beloved Halo at all costs. (Meaning that they wank Halo too much.)

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*WARNING* IT IS MY OPINION.


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: grey101
Halopedian isn't a source and you should know better.
It's a more credible source than Halo Nation, ironic that it's stated in both.


Proper wordings would be: slightly more.

Halopedian or Halo Nation still remains not credible site. Please use primary sources like direct quotes with page numbers from the various novels. It befalls on your shoulder for burden of proof.

[Edited on 01.04.2012 4:59 PM PST]

  • 01.04.2012 4:58 PM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

What? A spartan III like Carter?

I'll need twenty.

  • 01.04.2012 5:19 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: grey101
Halopedian isn't a source and you should know better.
It's a more credible source than Halo Nation, ironic that it's stated in both.


You do understand that Halopedian was originally "halo nation" until they started getting a crap load of spam? hence why some most articles are exactly the same or based off of halo nation.

  • 01.04.2012 5:28 PM PDT

Swag punks, fu­­ck off!

Spartan 2.

  • 01.04.2012 7:12 PM PDT
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Ahhh, people talking about AP rounds when I'm pretty sure they don't know the intricate balistics of them.

Any-how, Mark IV was resistant to .30 caliber chaingun fire at point-blank. Though I doubt it was AP, the fact that is is a chain gun and at point blank and the rounds are harmlessly bouncing off is kindof reassuring.

during the Mark V test, Master chief wanted to see how well his new armor stood up to the chainguns. He showed some level of confidence, and coming from someone who has been in the military since age 6, I would value that confidence highly. Oh, and here's the kicker. Not only were those chainguns likely AP(The goal was basically to kill MC in the test to spite Halsey), but they were 30mm! 30mm rounds are larger than any handled guns that the UNSC fields, and considering they are most likely AP and had a high rate of fire, Master Chief was semi-confident enough to see what the un-shielded suit could stand up to.

Another thing, Master Chief, during that part of the test hadn't even noticed being hit by those rounds. he was surpreised when he saw that the shield bar had dropped 1/4 of the way. Considering the chaingun fire from 3 30mm automated chaingun turrets on;y drained 1/4 the shields of Mark V, I'm confident that his shields won't even drop to small arms fire. ESPECIALLY when MJOLNIR Mark VI has 2x the shielding and 5x the alloy density(further increasing balistic protection).

So basically, you would need to stand point-blank to the MJOLNIR sysyem without shields, and repeatedly shoot it with nothing less then 7.62mm AP rounds. Then when you factor in the recharfing shields that are especially resistant to kinetic energy(i.e. bullets), and that a S-II is going to be quickly moving and using cover, I highly doubt any small arms fire wll do any significant damage.

[Edited on 01.04.2012 8:41 PM PST]

  • 01.04.2012 8:41 PM PDT
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Here is a fun quote for all you "S-IIIs are just as physically capable as S-IIs":

Halo Glasslands pg 206

This was always the moment when Mendez fully appreciated just how different a Spartan-II was from a regular soldier and even from the Spartan-IIIs. He'd seen it hundreds, even thousands of times, but it was still sobering to watch a human being in a power-assisted suit accelerate to nearly sixty kilometers and hour and keep going.

  • 01.06.2012 7:23 PM PDT

I'm not sure where everyone is getting this "SIII's are just random refugees" stuff, they were refugees, but they still met the genetic screening, else the augmentations would've killed or crippled them.

Also, for ^^ that guy, I think the SII in question was most likely in MJOLNIR? I haven't read Glasslands, so I may be wrong there, but SPI didn't give any increased strength or reactions, or in this case, speed.

  • 01.06.2012 8:17 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: zak2014
I'm not sure where everyone is getting this "SIII's are just random refugees" stuff, they were refugees, but they still met the genetic screening, else the augmentations would've killed or crippled them.



You might want to re-read GoO because Ackerson clearly didn't care for the genetics part of the program. Not to mention i highly doubt that ackerson screened the kids because it was clearly stated that they just asked refugees of recently glassed worlds to join.

Having something injected to you via needle is not the same as it being surgically grafted into your bones. Genetics are irrelevant for the injections.

  • 01.06.2012 8:23 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Here is a fun quote for all you "S-IIIs are just as physically capable as S-IIs":

Halo Glasslands pg 206

This was always the moment when Mendez fully appreciated just how different a Spartan-II was from a regular soldier and even from the Spartan-IIIs. He'd seen it hundreds, even thousands of times, but it was still sobering to watch a human being in a power-assisted suit accelerate to nearly sixty kilometers and hour and keep going.

Well yeah, as the SII in question was in MJOLNIR, and the SIII's had SPI armor.

MJOLNIR is much better than SPI, so it's not really a fair comparison.

  • 01.06.2012 8:30 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: zak2014
I'm not sure where everyone is getting this "SIII's are just random refugees" stuff, they were refugees, but they still met the genetic screening, else the augmentations would've killed or crippled them.



You might want to re-read GoO because Ackerson clearly didn't care for the genetics part of the program. Not to mention i highly doubt that ackerson screened the kids because it was clearly stated that they just asked refugees of recently glassed worlds to join.

Having something injected to you via needle is not the same as it being surgically grafted into your bones. Genetics are irrelevant for the injections.


grey, please get off your high horse. THEY HAD TO HAVE GOOD GENES OR THEY END UP GETTING CRIPPLED!! Please understand that, just because Ackerson didn't "care for the genetics part", doesn't mean they just randomly grabbed kids. They were refugees, and they fit the criteria, end of discussion.

  • 01.06.2012 8:33 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: zak2014
I'm not sure where everyone is getting this "SIII's are just random refugees" stuff, they were refugees, but they still met the genetic screening, else the augmentations would've killed or crippled them.



You might want to re-read GoO because Ackerson clearly didn't care for the genetics part of the program. Not to mention i highly doubt that ackerson screened the kids because it was clearly stated that they just asked refugees of recently glassed worlds to join.

Having something injected to you via needle is not the same as it being surgically grafted into your bones. Genetics are irrelevant for the injections.


They clearly screened the kids, seeing how they wanted 1,000 for Beta company but due to them not matching the genetic criteria, they had to lower it back to 300-330. They even proposed checking the outer colonies for more kids but it was deemed to difficult due to the people already disliking UNSC, they would not allow for some random "medic" to take a sample of their kids' blood.

  • 01.06.2012 8:34 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: zak2014


grey, please get off your high horse. THEY HAD TO HAVE GOOD GENES OR THEY END UP GETTING CRIPPLED!! Please understand that, just because Ackerson didn't "care for the genetics part", doesn't mean they just randomly grabbed kids. They were refugees, and they fit the criteria, end of discussion.


The augmentations had sufficiently advanced to the point that genetics weren't as much of a factor, if any, in selection.

If you remember, half of the SII's were killed/crippled in their augmentations, and they had the 'Best' genes.

Remember, though, not a single SIII died during the procedures.


  • 01.06.2012 8:38 PM PDT


Posted by: thebobafettest

Posted by: zak2014


grey, please get off your high horse. THEY HAD TO HAVE GOOD GENES OR THEY END UP GETTING CRIPPLED!! Please understand that, just because Ackerson didn't "care for the genetics part", doesn't mean they just randomly grabbed kids. They were refugees, and they fit the criteria, end of discussion.


The augmentations had sufficiently advanced to the point that genetics weren't as much of a factor, if any, in selection.

If you remember, half of the SII's were killed/crippled in their augmentations, and they had the 'Best' genes.

Remember, though, not a single SIII died during the procedures.




I agree that they had less of a factor, but why only 330 if you could use any child? They were still stringent and had to be pretty close to SII levels of perfection to get results worth the cost of training.

  • 01.06.2012 8:41 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: zak2014

Posted by: thebobafettest

Posted by: zak2014


grey, please get off your high horse. THEY HAD TO HAVE GOOD GENES OR THEY END UP GETTING CRIPPLED!! Please understand that, just because Ackerson didn't "care for the genetics part", doesn't mean they just randomly grabbed kids. They were refugees, and they fit the criteria, end of discussion.


The augmentations had sufficiently advanced to the point that genetics weren't as much of a factor, if any, in selection.

If you remember, half of the SII's were killed/crippled in their augmentations, and they had the 'Best' genes.

Remember, though, not a single SIII died during the procedures.




I agree that they had less of a factor, but why only 330 if you could use any child? They were still stringent and had to be pretty close to SII levels of perfection to get results worth the cost of training.

I'm sure it had some influence, probably more in a cursory check then anything, I'm thinking fitness, general health, and intelligence were at a greater role, though without any confirmation in the novels, other than the not very explicit GoO and Glasslands, all we can do is speculate.

  • 01.06.2012 8:54 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: zak2014

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: zak2014
I'm not sure where everyone is getting this "SIII's are just random refugees" stuff, they were refugees, but they still met the genetic screening, else the augmentations would've killed or crippled them.



You might want to re-read GoO because Ackerson clearly didn't care for the genetics part of the program. Not to mention i highly doubt that ackerson screened the kids because it was clearly stated that they just asked refugees of recently glassed worlds to join.

Having something injected to you via needle is not the same as it being surgically grafted into your bones. Genetics are irrelevant for the injections.


grey, please get off your high horse. THEY HAD TO HAVE GOOD GENES OR THEY END UP GETTING CRIPPLED!! Please understand that, just because Ackerson didn't "care for the genetics part", doesn't mean they just randomly grabbed kids. They were refugees, and they fit the criteria, end of discussion.



I am walking on my bare feet, no horse.

What source do you have for your yelling? A factor for the SIII program was a lesser gene pool, we know ackerson doesn't care for safety so would he really nit pick over genes?
It is the end because you are done talking about it? That seems arrogant,especially since i don't really remember you even being heavily involved in this.


Halsey had children registered for bogus test across hundreds of worlds. We don't have anything mentioning Ackerson doing that or visiting the kids to evaluate them. I am not saying because we don't have an account it didn't happen but that isn't helping Ackersons case of checking the subjects.
The SIII program had more washouts than the SII project, yes that is due to the increase in number but who is to say he didn't just take a shipload of kids and go from there?

Remember Ackerson saying how he wanted to mass produce more and more spartans? At the numbers ackerson was stating you wouldn't be screening for genetics 2 more companies after delta.

  • 01.06.2012 8:58 PM PDT

If they don't suck it at first, just thrust and thrust til they do

well if its Linda-058 she could no-scope them all in about a second and a half, MC has 'luck' not to mention more combat experience than they have been alive, Spartan II's don't have -blam!- armour ( their armour was made for combat not infiltration like SPI) and dont mention that noble team has MJOLNIR either because they are watered down models of mk V. I think a spartan II could hold his/her own but they would definitely need to fight strategically, not run in guns blazing

  • 01.06.2012 9:03 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Bombsoldier
well if its Linda-058 she could no-scope them all in about a second and a half, MC has 'luck' not to mention more combat experience than they have been alive, Spartan II's don't have -blam!- armour ( their armour was made for combat not infiltration like SPI) and dont mention that noble team has MJOLNIR either because they are watered down models of mk V. I think a spartan II could hold his/her own but they would definitely need to fight strategically, not run in guns blazing


Yeah...no.

  • 01.06.2012 10:36 PM PDT

If they don't suck it at first, just thrust and thrust til they do


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Bombsoldier
well if its Linda-058 she could no-scope them all in about a second and a half, MC has 'luck' not to mention more combat experience than they have been alive, Spartan II's don't have -blam!- armour ( their armour was made for combat not infiltration like SPI) and dont mention that noble team has MJOLNIR either because they are watered down models of mk V. I think a spartan II could hold his/her own but they would definitely need to fight strategically, not run in guns blazing


Yeah...no.


yes...

  • 01.07.2012 1:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Depends. If its John vs anybody from Ghosts of Onyx, there would be 3 asses getting kicked. If it was Noble 6 and any other three from Noble team vs ANY Spartan II, (Kurt is an exception) the II would be destroyed.

  • 01.07.2012 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: thebobafettest

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Here is a fun quote for all you "S-IIIs are just as physically capable as S-IIs":

Halo Glasslands pg 206

This was always the moment when Mendez fully appreciated just how different a Spartan-II was from a regular soldier and even from the Spartan-IIIs. He'd seen it hundreds, even thousands of times, but it was still sobering to watch a human being in a power-assisted suit accelerate to nearly sixty kilometers and hour and keep going.

Well yeah, as the SII in question was in MJOLNIR, and the SIII's had SPI armor.

MJOLNIR is much better than SPI, so it's not really a fair comparison.


just how different a Spartan-II was from a regular soldier and even from the Spartan-IIIs.

He was clearly talking about them in terms of their physical and soldierly traits. He only mentioned the MJOLNIR in the end because he was separetly admiring their speed with MJOLNIR. A fully grown S-II without armor can hit 50kph-60kph and hold that for probably 20 seconds or so. WITH MJOLNIR they can maintain that pace for much longer, with their max speed approaching 60MPH.


Also, for the genes, Halsey screened the 800 worlds that the UNSC controlled, and got 150 total that qualified. Ackerson screened the refugees of planets that had been "glassed", but managed to get TWICE as many as Halsey got, multiple times. This shows how different the gene selection was. Halsey had a MUCH MUCH greater population to take from, but only got 150. Ackerson had a MUCH MUCH smaller population to take from and got 300, multiple times.

The GENES is what determines the effects of the bioaugmentations. S-IIs literally had the best genes available, probably verging on "perfect". This caused much greater effects from the augmentation process. An example would be the reaction time. The label was 300% boost, the S-IIs got a 1400% boost. You know why? It was their GENES. The S-IIIs had a much wider gene pool. They still had restrictions, but were not nearly as tight as the S-IIs. This would cause a SLIGHT boost from the labels, but nowhere near the IIs. However, some S-IIIs exhibited the genes of the S-IIs. This means they got the same level of effects. They were taken out from the rest, equipped with MJOLNIR, and given S-II-like missions and dubbed NOBLE Team.

BTW, can anybody explain how INJECTIONS grafted ceramics onto the S-IIIs' bones? Is that even possible?

  • 01.07.2012 3:43 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

If the S-II were in MJOLNIR and the S-IIIs were in SPI, then it is clear that the outcome would not favour the S-IIIs. If they were evenly matched (i.e., All in MJOLNIR, all in SPI, or no armour at all) then the S-IIIS would win. I am tired of these threads putting S-IIIs into unrealistic situations. If they are all on the same playing field, then three stand a significantly greater chance of taking down one than one does taking down three. No exceptions.

  • 01.07.2012 5:14 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Depends. If its John vs anybody from Ghosts of Onyx, there would be 3 asses getting kicked. If it was Noble 6 and any other three from Noble team vs ANY Spartan II, (Kurt is an exception) the II would be destroyed.


Why is Kurt an exception to the case?

What is he going to do, lead himself to victory?

Kurt's main attributes that separated him from most Spartan's were his superior leader skills, his humanity towards everyone, including those outside the Spartan II family, and his way to keep secrets.

Kurt is definitely not an exception. He has no extraordinary skills in combat other than leading. And what good is that too him when he's by himself?

  • 01.07.2012 5:43 PM PDT

hello i like action games thats all im showing on this

It depends on who they were. Everyone fighting over who were better the spartan 1s spartan 2s or spartan 3s... The spartan 2s were the best by far. Of course they all died but they died over years of missions far deadlier than the ones the spartan 3s went on. A 100 or so spartan 3s on one mission all dying on that mission. I mean come on 3 spartan 2s could finish the missions they went on. They probably all have the same training and all because a spartan 2 trained all the spartan 3s but the difference was the spartan 3s were not specialy chosen they were just taken and put to work at a young age and their equipment wasnt as good as the spartan 2s either but that doesnt change the fact that the spartan 2s were superior to most spartan 3s. Put a spartan 2 and spartan 3 on a scuicide mission with the same possible outcomes the spartan 2 would most likely win and survive the spartan 3 would most likely win as well but in death. There is no reason to fight over a fact that has been proven again and again. The spartan 2s were superior to the spartan 3s and the spartan 1s.
My point is a proven fact.

  • 01.07.2012 5:43 PM PDT


Posted by: mrthomasscott
It depends on who they were. Everyone fighting over who were better the spartan 1s spartan 2s or spartan 3s... The spartan 2s were the best by far. Of course they all died but they died over years of missions far deadlier than the ones the spartan 3s went on. A 100 or so spartan 3s on one mission all dying on that mission. I mean come on 3 spartan 2s could finish the missions they went on. They probably all have the same training and all because a spartan 2 trained all the spartan 3s but the difference was the spartan 3s were not specialy chosen they were just taken and put to work at a young age and their equipment wasnt as good as the spartan 2s either but that doesnt change the fact that the spartan 2s were superior to most spartan 3s. Put a spartan 2 and spartan 3 on a scuicide mission with the same possible outcomes the spartan 2 would most likely win and survive the spartan 3 would most likely win as well but in death. There is no reason to fight over a fact that has been proven again and again. The spartan 2s were superior to the spartan 3s and the spartan 1s.
My point is a proven fact.


I completely agree with your analysis... with one excpetion. The Spartan III's were created to run suicide ops, in the most literal sense of the term. Although it would take a smaller amount of twos to take care of their jobs, they would most likely still die - unless it were Master Chief. But, I digress. Spartan III's, although less powerful and well-made, were made for MUCH harder missions.

  • 01.07.2012 6:08 PM PDT