Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
  • Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
Subject: 3 Spartan III's vs 1 Spartan II
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am on arsenal with this.


The thyroid implant the SIIIs didn't get also further strengthen the bones going in concert with the ossification aug.

So we cannot say how that would effect wearing power armor.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 2:35 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 2:31 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
The point still stands that the IIIs have nowhere near the requirements of the IIs(Besides NOBLE). Halsey could only find 150 out of 800 planets. Ackerson got close to 1,000 working only with refugees (In total).

And still, Glasslands is canon, as declared by 343, which ultimately has the final word. I hate some of the things Halo: Legends even more than Glasslands did with canon, but I accept it anyways because that's not my call.


Does it not say Halsey only had found 150 in the timespan she was given, and if more funding/time had been alloted she could've gone up to 300?

And the fact Halsey specifically only took the ultimate best, where as the Spartan 3's had a slightly wider one.

There is also the fun fact Ackerson's 'base' of selection was smaller. I kinda find the thought stupid and insane that out of so many planets, ONLY 75-150 children had those genes. Couldn't we expand that and say in comparison that at least 75 of each group would've had those genes?

edit: Adding on. IIRC, Halsey alone was checking the S2 candidates out. Meaning she was taking longer/being very precise. Which also meant she may have missed children that could've entered.

Also, as somebody else said, the reason marines couldn't use MJOLNIR was their bones got crushed. S3's got the augmentation which made their bones far tougher then normal/nigh unbreakable. Meaning the single major blockage of wearing 'power armor' like MJOLNIR is nullified.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 2:40 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 2:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Fallacies help if your opponents arguement IS a fallacy. "Nothing says they can't" is not an argument. No information that you have says that I can't fly, so therefore I can? Instead of saying "Nothing says they can't" how about you provide PROOF. We also don't know that they didn't get MJOLNIR simply because it was so expensive.

Mark VII may be more "user friendly" than previous varients, but we don't know anything about it, so we can't really discuss it (though I suppose it would have to be, if ONI is using ODSTs, and I would assume they are not getting augs like S-IIIs or IIs).

  • 01.08.2012 2:34 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

If the majority of IIIs didn't get the same amplification of effects from the augs, then it is entirely possible that they would be unable to wear MJOLNIR. It would be nice if someone could provide some proof for me that they can.

You need to go back and read the precise reason regular soldiers could not wear MJOLNIR armor; it's probably in the Fall of Reach (heck, I'll look it up).

"'Normal humans don't have the reaction time or strength required to drive this system,' she explained..."

Page 115 Fall of Reach.

Normal humans do not. Spartan IIIs are not normal humans. They were administered the drugs which boosted their reaction times, strength, and made their bones unbreakable.

They can use MJOLNIR. It is really quite a simple method of deductive reasoning.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 2:38 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 2:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: superiorarsenal
The point still stands that the IIIs have nowhere near the requirements of the IIs(Besides NOBLE). Halsey could only find 150 out of 800 planets. Ackerson got close to 1,000 working only with refugees (In total).

And still, Glasslands is canon, as declared by 343, which ultimately has the final word. I hate some of the things Halo: Legends even more than Glasslands did with canon, but I accept it anyways because that's not my call.


Does it not say Halsey only had found 150 in the timespan she was given, and if more funding/time had been alloted she could've gone up to 300?

And the fact Halsey specifically only took the ultimate best, where as the Spartan 3's had a slightly wider one.

There is also the fun fact Ackerson's 'base' of selection was smaller. I kinda find the thought stupid and insane that out of so many planets, ONLY 75-150 children had those genes. Couldn't we expand that and say in comparison that at least 75 of each group would've had those genes?


I'm not seeing the ratio here.
So 150 children out of 800 planets(each having at least in the thousands, and some having numbers in the billions) = 75 out of 300 out of refugees from a fraction of the total worlds?

Halsey found the IIs by admnistering a colony-wide bogus test that gave her the results she needed to determine which fit her criteria. No amount of time would have increased the amount of her result. It also said in one quote that she didn't do a second class because of a lack of children that had the required genes.

  • 01.08.2012 2:39 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Fallacies help if your opponents arguement IS a fallacy. "Nothing says they can't" is not an argument. No information that you have says that I can't fly, so therefore I can?
No one told me you are a human, but does that mean you aren't.

I cannot see the edge of the Universe, but does that mean there isn't one?

Your "reasoning" is equally flawed buddy.

  • 01.08.2012 2:40 PM PDT

Check out my edit on that last post of mine.

  • 01.08.2012 2:41 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: grey101
I am on arsenal with this.


The thyroid implant the SIIIs didn't get also further strengthen the bones going in concert with the ossification aug.

So we cannot say how that would effect wearing power armor.

Noble team did not have the thyroid implant (excluding Jorge).

  • 01.08.2012 2:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
If the majority of IIIs didn't get the same amplification of effects from the augs, then it is entirely possible that they would be unable to wear MJOLNIR. It would be nice if someone could provide some proof for me that they can.

You need to go back and read the precise reason regular soldiers could not wear MJOLNIR armor; it's probably in the Fall of Reach (heck, I'll look it up).

"'Normal humans don't have the reaction time or strength required to drive this system,' she explained..."

Page 115 Fall of Reach.

Normal humans do not. Spartan IIIs are not normal humans. They were administered the drugs which boosted their reaction times, strength, and made their bones unbreakable.

They can use MJOLNIR. It is really quite a simple method of deductive reasoning.


So on the sole basis that they are not normal humans means that they can wear MJOLNIR? We don't know the required strength and speed required to wear MJOLNIR is, so you cannot just say that because the S-IIIs were stronger and faster than a regular human means they can wear MJOLNIR. We know that normal people can't, IIs can, but S-IIIs lay somewhere in between, we don't know the "cut-off" line for MJOLNIR, or what end of that line the S-IIIs fall on.

(BTW, the bones are not unbreakable, just very very resistant to it)

  • 01.08.2012 2:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: superiorarsenal
The point still stands that the IIIs have nowhere near the requirements of the IIs(Besides NOBLE). Halsey could only find 150 out of 800 planets. Ackerson got close to 1,000 working only with refugees (In total).

And still, Glasslands is canon, as declared by 343, which ultimately has the final word. I hate some of the things Halo: Legends even more than Glasslands did with canon, but I accept it anyways because that's not my call.


Does it not say Halsey only had found 150 in the timespan she was given, and if more funding/time had been alloted she could've gone up to 300?

And the fact Halsey specifically only took the ultimate best, where as the Spartan 3's had a slightly wider one.

There is also the fun fact Ackerson's 'base' of selection was smaller. I kinda find the thought stupid and insane that out of so many planets, ONLY 75-150 children had those genes. Couldn't we expand that and say in comparison that at least 75 of each group would've had those genes?

edit: Adding on. IIRC, Halsey alone was checking the S2 candidates out. Meaning she was taking longer/being very precise. Which also meant she may have missed children that could've entered.

Also, as somebody else said, the reason marines couldn't use MJOLNIR was their bones got crushed. S3's got the augmentation which made their bones far tougher then normal/nigh unbreakable. Meaning the single major blockage of wearing 'power armor' like MJOLNIR is nullified.


It's called a computer program that sifts through all the results looking for specific matches to specific criteria.

But the other factors were strength and reaction time which you would need to control it, not just to survive it. We don't know where they fall on those points, so you can't just say that they can wear MJOLNIR.

Right now it is unknown if they can or not.

  • 01.08.2012 2:50 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Fallacies help if your opponents arguement IS a fallacy. "Nothing says they can't" is not an argument. No information that you have says that I can't fly, so therefore I can?
No one told me you are a human, but does that mean you aren't.

I cannot see the edge of the Universe, but does that mean there isn't one?

Your "reasoning" is equally flawed buddy.


I'm not saying they absolutely can't, without a doubt, but rather it is a possibility that they can't. I'm saying that you can't merely say they can wear it because nothing says they can't.

  • 01.08.2012 2:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101
I am on arsenal with this.


The thyroid implant the SIIIs didn't get also further strengthen the bones going in concert with the ossification aug.

So we cannot say how that would effect wearing power armor.

Noble team did not have the thyroid implant (excluding Jorge).



Then again they were going to be SIIs anyway, so we have genetics.

  • 01.08.2012 3:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101
I am on arsenal with this.


The thyroid implant the SIIIs didn't get also further strengthen the bones going in concert with the ossification aug.

So we cannot say how that would effect wearing power armor.

Noble team did not have the thyroid implant (excluding Jorge).



And if IIRC in my last reading about it, the Thyroid implant's main function was to allow the bone and muscle augmentations to affect the entire body, without it they would not.

Seeing as it's absent from the S3's augmentations, we can only assume their bone and muscle augmentations were improved to not require it.


To Arsenal, here is a comparsion that may make how I see it clear.

Halsey wants to select 300 cars with a very specific coloration of green. (with let's say a .5 variance in tone). She has selected 150 in that category so far, when she's told she can only have 75 to pick from. (The fall of reach book I remember hinted strongly she went in person to all 150 before picking 75 out.) So Halsey goes to each of the 150 she has found, and then picks only the ones closest to or an exact match to the specific shade of green. This gives her the 'best', but a drastically limited grouping.

Then later one they are selecting a new group, only this time with let's say a .75 variance of tone. However, unlike before you have several people going through the green cars in the different lots, and they are grabbing all the ones that match the limits.

So instead of Halsey's hand-picking the best ones of the selection, they are grabbing all that fit the category of being able to survive/produce good results of the augmentations actions. How else do you think she got 75 from 150? Hand picked because they were most likely to succeed in the augmentation stage.

That is what I'm trying to say with the S3's. Ghosts of Onyx does not paint of picture of them driving down the street snatching whatever child they could. It shows there are restrictions. We ALL know how Halsey was about the Spartan II's. Don't you think if she had let some others help with the selection process more would have been identified?

Edit: As for the armor, I'm not seeing why we should blanket the S3's as unable to wear it. They received basically the same augmentations as the S2's, with similar results. I'm not seeing what points at them unable to wear MJOLNIR.

Edit2: honestly a lot of this debate would be lifted if we had simply been given more information about the S3's post augmentations. Comparably we've been given very little information about them compared to the S2's.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 3:17 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 3:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: grey101
I am on arsenal with this.


The thyroid implant the SIIIs didn't get also further strengthen the bones going in concert with the ossification aug.

So we cannot say how that would effect wearing power armor.

Noble team did not have the thyroid implant (excluding Jorge).



And if IIRC in my last reading about it, the Thyroid implant's main function was to allow the bone and muscle augmentations to affect the entire body, without it they would not.

Seeing as it's absent from the S3's augmentations, we can only assume their bone and muscle augmentations were improved to not require it.


To Arsenal, here is a comparsion that may make how I see it clear.

Halsey wants to select 300 cars with a very specific coloration of green. (with let's say a .5 variance in tone). She has selected 150 in that category so far, when she's told she can only have 75 to pick from. (The fall of reach book I remember hinted strongly she went in person to all 150 before picking 75 out.) So Halsey goes to each of the 150 she has found, and then picks only the ones closest to or an exact match to the specific shade of green. This gives her the 'best', but a drastically limited grouping.

Then later one they are selecting a new group, only this time with let's say a .75 variance of tone. However, unlike before you have several people going through the green cars in the different lots, and they are grabbing all the ones that match the limits.

So instead of Halsey's hand-picking the best ones of the selection, they are grabbing all that fit the category of being able to survive/produce good results of the augmentations actions. How else do you think she got 75 from 150? Hand picked because they were most likely to succeed in the augmentation stage.

That is what I'm trying to say with the S3's. Ghosts of Onyx does not paint of picture of them driving down the street snatching whatever child they could. It shows there are restrictions. We ALL know how Halsey was about the Spartan II's. Don't you think if she had let some others help with the selection process more would have been identified?


She admnistered a test across ALL UNSC colonies, and only found 150 that had the right genes. THEN she went around to check which would be the best for her 75 limit.

Ackerson was working ONLY with refugees from the planets burned at that current time. This is a MUCH smaller population than Halsey was working with. Somehow, despite having a significantly smaller population to work from, he managed to get TWICE the amount Halsey got from her Colony-wide-pre-war population, and on top of that, he got this THREE times. Not to mention a direct quote that says there was barelt ANY genetic requirements, from Mendez himslef. also note how appalled Halsey was when she found out how loosened her criteria were.

  • 01.08.2012 3:22 PM PDT

Besides the fact unlike Halsey, Ackerson and Kurt didn't obsess over it and allowed more people to help with the selection process?

Also, we know that the S3 program grabbed children around the age of 6, Halsey ONLY picked age 6 children. That'd give you more to get. For example, if I'm picking people weighing 200 pounds, but restrict it to age 40 only, I'm not going to get as many if I picked people weighing 200 pounds, age 38-42.

Oh, and do we even know if Mendez helped picked out the children? My impression was his involvement only began ONCE the kids reached Onyx, he didn't take place in selection.

Also, what I remember is 150 had been picked out by 2517, it doesn't say the test had been administered on EVERY colony.


edit: To add to the Mendez point, who would be the better source if there was a genetic requirement, The man funding (Ackerson) and the man in charge (Kurt) who picked the augmentations, or the drill instructor? (Mendez)

[Edited on 01.08.2012 3:58 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 3:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Besides the fact unlike Halsey, Ackerson and Kurt didn't obsess over it and allowed more people to help with the selection process?

Computer program

Also, we know that the S3 program grabbed children around the age of 6, Halsey ONLY picked age 6 children. That'd give you more to get. For example, if I'm picking people weighing 200 pounds, but restrict it to age 40 only, I'm not going to get as many if I picked people weighing 200 pounds, age 38-42.


We don't know if ALL S-IIs were age 6. Some could be 5, some could have been 7. The MAJORITY of S-IIs were 6 year olds. Regardless, I would find more 200lbs pound 40-year olds from the population of Earth, than if you picked 200lbs pound 38-42 year olds that are refugees from war.

Oh, and do we even know if Mendez helped picked out the children? My impression was his involvement only began ONCE the kids reached Onyx, he didn't take place in selection

He didn't have to be the one to select them to know of any genetc requirements. Just like how he didn't need to watch Halsey give birth to Miranda to konw that she was her mother.


Also, what I remember is 150 had been picked out by 2517, it doesn't say the test had been administered on EVERY colony.

She found them by staging a UEG/UNSC-wide bogus vaccine test thingy, which even if it ddn't reach a few outer-colonies, t would still have multiple times more of a population than taking from refugees.


  • 01.08.2012 3:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Halsey doesn't BS, all the SII candidates were 6.

  • 01.08.2012 4:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: grey101
Halsey doesn't BS, all the SII candidates were 6.


Regardless, there are more 6 year olds n UNSC controlled space than there are 4-7 year old refugees.

  • 01.08.2012 4:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Edit: though from recollection, I think he's right. ONI went to many refugee camps and orphanages, asked the kids if they wanted revenge, and took them in. I don't recall mention of any prior screening.


Um, look at the post up the page. It DIRECTLY states there was genetic requirements.


Posted by: UphillMercury
There weren't any genetic requirements for S-IIIs.The only requirements were that 1. They were orphans and 2. They wanted revenge against the Covenant.


See above.

If there was ZERO genetic requirements, Ackerson would've had his 1000-some Spartan 3's in beta company. Instead he got 300 or so.


There are standard procedures where colonists' genes are registered in a centralized database, which is I think where you're getting the idea that there was some genetic screening involved. The S-IIs had their genes meticulously analyzed both to ensure the effects of the augmentations were optimized and that they would have a better chance of survival. When the S-IIs received their augmentations, the procedures were deadly; 56% were severely disabled or dead. That's a pretty big number, considering the program only started with 75. With the S-IIIs, they analyzed their genes, but that was as far as they went. There were plans for a Delta Company, as mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx. The program was limited by how many individuals could be trained at the time. The maximum was 330, with the normal maximum only being 300, and they were limited by how many they can train while still having the resources to do so and to do so while maintaining complete secrecy.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 4:52 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 4:46 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

"We have identified 375 candidates," Kurt said. "Slightly less than we started with for Alpha Company, but we have learned from our mistakes. We will be able to graduate a much higher percentage this time." He nodded toward Mendez to give the Chief the credit he richly deserved. Mendez sat completely still and Kurt saw he wore his poker face. Every instinct Kurt had screamed that something was wrong here.

"But," the Rear Admiral said, "that's nowhere near the one thousand projection for the second wave." A brief scowl played over Ackerson's lip. "No, sir."
The Vice Admiral set her hands flat on the table and leaned closer to Kurt. "What if we loosen the new genetic selection criteria?" Kurt took note of the "we" in her question. There was a subtle shift in the power structure at the table. With a single word, the Vice Admiral had made Kurt a part of their group. "Our new bioaugmentation protocols target a very specific genetic set. Any deviation from that set would geometrically increase the failure rate," Kurt said. The thought of dozens of Spartans being tortured and ultimately crippled as they lay helpless in a medical bay filled him with revulsion. He managed to contain the feeling.

The Vice Admiral raised one threadbare brow. "You've done your homework. Lieutenant." "However, as our augmentation technology improves," Ackerson said, "one day we will
be able to expand the selection parameters, maybe to include the entire general population."

"But not today, Colonel," the Rear Admiral said, and sighed. "So we're back to about three hundred SPARTAN-IIIs. That will have to do then."


No screening eh?

  • 01.08.2012 4:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
"We have identified 375 candidates," Kurt said. "Slightly less than we started with for Alpha Company, but we have learned from our mistakes. We will be able to graduate a much higher percentage this time." He nodded toward Mendez to give the Chief the credit he richly deserved. Mendez sat completely still and Kurt saw he wore his poker face. Every instinct Kurt had screamed that something was wrong here.

"But," the Rear Admiral said, "that's nowhere near the one thousand projection for the second wave." A brief scowl played over Ackerson's lip. "No, sir."
The Vice Admiral set her hands flat on the table and leaned closer to Kurt. "What if we loosen the new genetic selection criteria?" Kurt took note of the "we" in her question. There was a subtle shift in the power structure at the table. With a single word, the Vice Admiral had made Kurt a part of their group. "Our new bioaugmentation protocols target a very specific genetic set. Any deviation from that set would geometrically increase the failure rate," Kurt said. The thought of dozens of Spartans being tortured and ultimately crippled as they lay helpless in a medical bay filled him with revulsion. He managed to contain the feeling.

The Vice Admiral raised one threadbare brow. "You've done your homework. Lieutenant." "However, as our augmentation technology improves," Ackerson said, "one day we will
be able to expand the selection parameters, maybe to include the entire general population."

"But not today, Colonel," the Rear Admiral said, and sighed. "So we're back to about three hundred SPARTAN-IIIs. That will have to do then."


No screening eh?


That's very nice, but what is your source?

  • 01.08.2012 5:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:



Halo: Glasslands pg 269-270

"Well, you know we didn't select them on the basis of perfect genomes," he said. Halsey had suspended the second tranche of the Spartan program because she'd run out of candidates with the deal genetic profile. She knew he wasn't going to let her forget it. "They were all orphans. No qualification beyond the Covenant slaughtering their entire family. We asked them if they wanted to get their revenge, and we took the ones who said yes." He put his cigar back in his belt pouch, but he was staring right into her face. "We took volunteers. We enhanced them some, but we took whatever we could get, and they turned out fine."
"No filtering at all?" A six-year old couldn't possibly understand combat enough to volunteer, but she didn't want to start a pissing contest with him over ethics, not in front of the Spartans. "Not even genetic screening?"
"You think it's all about genes, Doctor? The Spartans that I trained were made from random, raw, imperfect huumanity. But by God, they were motivated. And that's what it's all about. A state of mind."
Halsey wanted to resist a debate, but if she'd just nodded and smiled it would make him just as angry. "If that were true, then we wouldn't have needed the Spartan program. Exceptional genes create an advantage in any field."


Screening huh? Don't forget, new canon replaces old.

  • 01.08.2012 5:03 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
"We have identified 375 candidates," Kurt said. "Slightly less than we started with for Alpha Company, but we have learned from our mistakes. We will be able to graduate a much higher percentage this time." He nodded toward Mendez to give the Chief the credit he richly deserved. Mendez sat completely still and Kurt saw he wore his poker face. Every instinct Kurt had screamed that something was wrong here.

"But," the Rear Admiral said, "that's nowhere near the one thousand projection for the second wave." A brief scowl played over Ackerson's lip. "No, sir."
The Vice Admiral set her hands flat on the table and leaned closer to Kurt. "What if we loosen the new genetic selection criteria?" Kurt took note of the "we" in her question. There was a subtle shift in the power structure at the table. With a single word, the Vice Admiral had made Kurt a part of their group. "Our new bioaugmentation protocols target a very specific genetic set. Any deviation from that set would geometrically increase the failure rate," Kurt said. The thought of dozens of Spartans being tortured and ultimately crippled as they lay helpless in a medical bay filled him with revulsion. He managed to contain the feeling.

The Vice Admiral raised one threadbare brow. "You've done your homework. Lieutenant." "However, as our augmentation technology improves," Ackerson said, "one day we will
be able to expand the selection parameters, maybe to include the entire general population."

"But not today, Colonel," the Rear Admiral said, and sighed. "So we're back to about three hundred SPARTAN-IIIs. That will have to do then."


No screening eh?


That's very nice, but what is your source?


Ghosts of Onyx, Margaret Paragonski, Kurt, Mendez and two other admirals-vice admirals talking about the Spartan III program. Also, Halsey about genes.

Number 117 had all the genetic markers she had flagged in her original study, he was as close to a perfect subject for her purposes as science could determine. But Dr. Halsey knew it would take more than theoretical perfection to make this project work. People were more than the sum of their genes.
There were environmental factors, mutations, learned ethics, and a hundred other factors that could make this candidate unacceptable.


The Fall of Reach, Halsey inspecting John's profile before arriving to the playground to see him.

Even she acknowledges that genes aren't everything.

  • 01.08.2012 5:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
"We have identified 375 candidates," Kurt said. "Slightly less than we started with for Alpha Company, but we have learned from our mistakes. We will be able to graduate a much higher percentage this time." He nodded toward Mendez to give the Chief the credit he richly deserved. Mendez sat completely still and Kurt saw he wore his poker face. Every instinct Kurt had screamed that something was wrong here.

"But," the Rear Admiral said, "that's nowhere near the one thousand projection for the second wave." A brief scowl played over Ackerson's lip. "No, sir."
The Vice Admiral set her hands flat on the table and leaned closer to Kurt. "What if we loosen the new genetic selection criteria?" Kurt took note of the "we" in her question. There was a subtle shift in the power structure at the table. With a single word, the Vice Admiral had made Kurt a part of their group. "Our new bioaugmentation protocols target a very specific genetic set. Any deviation from that set would geometrically increase the failure rate," Kurt said. The thought of dozens of Spartans being tortured and ultimately crippled as they lay helpless in a medical bay filled him with revulsion. He managed to contain the feeling.

The Vice Admiral raised one threadbare brow. "You've done your homework. Lieutenant." "However, as our augmentation technology improves," Ackerson said, "one day we will
be able to expand the selection parameters, maybe to include the entire general population."

"But not today, Colonel," the Rear Admiral said, and sighed. "So we're back to about three hundred SPARTAN-IIIs. That will have to do then."


No screening eh?


That's very nice, but what is your source?


Ghosts of Onyx, Margaret Paragonski, Kurt, Mendez and two other admirals-vice admirals talking about the Spartan III program. Also, Halsey about genes.

Number 117 had all the genetic markers she had flagged in her original study, he was as close to a perfect subject for her purposes as science could determine. But Dr. Halsey knew it would take more than theoretical perfection to make this project work. People were more than the sum of their genes.
There were environmental factors, mutations, learned ethics, and a hundred other factors that could make this candidate unacceptable.


The Fall of Reach, Halsey inspecting John's profile before arriving to the playground to see him.

Even she acknowledges that genes aren't everything.


doesn't change the fact that the only reason she was even looking at him was because of his genes. She means by that quote, that though they may have the REQUIRED genes, emphasis on REQUIRED, they could have had a horrible up-brining, or were in an accident that crippled them. Environmental factors do apply, but ultimately it was the S-IIs genes that was why Halsey was looking at them.

  • 01.08.2012 5:23 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
"We have identified 375 candidates," Kurt said. "Slightly less than we started with for Alpha Company, but we have learned from our mistakes. We will be able to graduate a much higher percentage this time." He nodded toward Mendez to give the Chief the credit he richly deserved. Mendez sat completely still and Kurt saw he wore his poker face. Every instinct Kurt had screamed that something was wrong here.

"But," the Rear Admiral said, "that's nowhere near the one thousand projection for the second wave." A brief scowl played over Ackerson's lip. "No, sir."
The Vice Admiral set her hands flat on the table and leaned closer to Kurt. "What if we loosen the new genetic selection criteria?" Kurt took note of the "we" in her question. There was a subtle shift in the power structure at the table. With a single word, the Vice Admiral had made Kurt a part of their group. "Our new bioaugmentation protocols target a very specific genetic set. Any deviation from that set would geometrically increase the failure rate," Kurt said. The thought of dozens of Spartans being tortured and ultimately crippled as they lay helpless in a medical bay filled him with revulsion. He managed to contain the feeling.

The Vice Admiral raised one threadbare brow. "You've done your homework. Lieutenant." "However, as our augmentation technology improves," Ackerson said, "one day we will
be able to expand the selection parameters, maybe to include the entire general population."

"But not today, Colonel," the Rear Admiral said, and sighed. "So we're back to about three hundred SPARTAN-IIIs. That will have to do then."


No screening eh?


I have to agree with Snake here. This quote clearly and utterly points out that there are genetic requirements for s3's. Maybe not as strict as the s2 ones, but they are there.

For Mendez to say otherwise when he was present at that very dang meeting shows lack of research on the part of Traviss.

  • 01.08.2012 9:55 PM PDT