i know i always used to play infection with 10 people on sandtrap, (it was a blast) when reach came out, every one gave up 3, i still play it with a good friend of mine some times. i just forge now on my free time hopping that i can make a custom game just as good as save one bullet on sandtrap. all infection games suck, like you said going down a slop with a warhog is no fun, hide n seek is literly hide n seek all around forge world now. if i realy wanted to i could go on till all 10000 characters are gone. we need to make something that will be just as good as halo 3 mini games.