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Subject: Invasion Overhaul (TL;DR at bottom)

WARNING: I get very wordy when talking about halo, so if this is too much, scroll down to the TL;DR at the bottom



The problems with the Invasion Playlist as of right now:

Every map in every game has a few problems, no matter how good it is. Invasion, because of the sheer size and length of each game, tends to show more problems. However, each map has a solution that can and will make gameplay more balanced.

I'll start with Boneyard, because I have more grievances here than anywhere else.. In the first phase, if you are attacking as elites, and you spawn on the far left side, you almost always get killed before reaching the ship the first few times because the spawns are in the open and they are separated from the other two elite spawns. I actually feel like the second phase is very well balanced, although if spartans obtain the wraith instead of retreating, they can cause hell among the elites.

However, the third phase is not well balanced. It starts with the loadouts. Players should flat out, not be able to spawn with power weapons. I consider the shotgun a blatant power weapon, and the grenade launcher can be very effective in the right hands. It is not overly difficult to get the core to that first door. However, the core is almost impossible to get from the first door to the open.

That's because of the shotgun loadout, and its AA of armor lock. There are about 5 different camping corners in that little bottom floor area. If three spartans all have shotgun and armor lock, there isn't anything the elites can do. They just constantly get slaughtered in close quarters, which slows down the game, and turns it into -blam!-ing camp fest.

I am going to move on to Spire. With Spire, the first phase feels too big for me. You can only get to the objective 3 or 4 times between the long trip to the objective and spawning. The entire offensive strategy starts to revolve around only one player pushing, while another spawns them nearby. This can become pretty boring, as only 3 players are trying to play offense vs 6 defenders. Even more problematic, is if you have an AFKer or your spawn bro quits out. Also, the needle rifle spawns way too fast. With it's 30 second respawn time, every elite can get one within the first 45 seconds of the match. Besides, the overall size of the first phase, it isn't too bad.

The second phase is pretty for spire. It combines an indoor objective with a medium ranged outdoors, which gives a lot of intense combat. The only thing is that the sniper completely dominates if the player is good. Elites are very easy to headshot, to the point where you could get 10 kills with those 12 shots. The third phase of Spire is very different than the other two maps, due to the vertical nature of Spire. It also plays different because of the spawn points for elites. They spend more of the game preventing the core from scoring than actually defending the core from objective. I do enjoy the craziness of trying to prevent, however, I feel like there is a little too much preventing, as most of the time elites don't even go up on the spire.

My largest complaint about Spire, is the placement of the Banshee.. It is extremely easy as a spartan, to bring a friend and just spawn kill those elites until the banshee is available. Once taken by spartans, the banshee can keep the elite on spawn for a long time. Meanwhile, the guy with core is walking untouched to the pelican. Yes, the elites have plasma launcher, but that thing is hardly a threat to the banshee. I would also like to give the elites a chance to make it to the top by putting a mancannon near the cliff where focus rifle is.

Finally, we have Breakpoint. This is definitely my favorite invasion map. I have to give Certain Affinity props for keeping the pace of the map fast, but not out of control. The first phase is much different, because the attacking team spawns with the high ground. There is also much less distance between spawns and objectives, giving the attacking team a chance to get to the hills 8-10 times. Anyone looking to make a map should pay attention to the things Breakpoint does.

Moving on to the next phase, my only issue is that the spawns are a little goofed up. Certain spartan fire teams can only spawn in the vehicle bay, while others can spawn in the weapons caches, and the vehicle bay. This is a very easy fix, and requires about a minute of time. Phase 3 of Breakpoint is also very very fun. It is set up very well, giving both teams a chance to come out on top. I only wish that the elites got their own weapons cache. Maybe a plasma launcher and a focus rifle? I don't know really, but Breakpoint is definitely the best map in the invasion playlist.

Solutions to the problems in Invasion:
First of all, the phase 3 loadouts definitely need a change. Sword and shotgun need to be replaced by AR and plasma rifle, respectively. Also, the grenade launcher should be replaced with either a DMR or an AR, secondary pistol. This right here, solves a lot of issues in invasion.

Boneyard Solutions
Elites on the left side get spawn killed in the first phase?
-Move the spawns to where needle rifle currently is, and move the needle rifle to that wreckage near the cliff.

Spartans steal the wraith?
-Perhaps change the wraiths spawn-in time to 60 seconds instead of where it currently is.

If the loadouts were changed, where would I get my shotgun or grenade launcher?
-My suggestion, is to change the weapons cache. Instead of rockets, sniper, shotty, spartan laser, change it to sniper, grenade launcher, spartan laser, shotty. That way, the loadout weapons still spawn on the map. I am sorry to all rocket lovers, but they can be somewhat overpowered with that indoor environment.

Spire Solutions
Spartans take forever to get to the objective in phase 1?
-Mix up the spawns, maybe even move them across the stream.

Elites are dominating with Needle Rifles?
- Either give the spartans a few DMR's to work with, or change the NR spawn time to 60 seconds.

The spartans stole the banshee for the 10th game in a row?
-This one, I admit, is hard to solve. I suggest doing some work with 1-way shields to make that vehicle spawn unobtainable by spartans.

Breakpoint really does not have many issues, so not many solutions are needed. My last point, before posting this, is to invite the community to make their own maps. Not just some random wall coliseums everywhere, but good, balanced maps that are matchmaking ready. I know there are some amazing forgers out there! I know, that was like a 2000 word paper.. I'm sorry, I like Halo a lot, and love discussing gameplay. Thanks for reading if you did, and to any others, see the TL;DR below

TL;DR: There are many problems between the invasion maps. If you want to look at those, you'll have to read the entire post.

Solutions/Possible fixes to the Invasion playlist:
-Get rid of the shotgun, 'nade launcher and sword loadouts. Replace them with AR, DMR or plasma rifle
-Move the left elite spawn on Boneyard P1 closer to cover
-Change the boneyard weapon cache to Sniper-GL-Splaser-Shotgun
-Either give the spartans on Spire a few DMR's, or adjust the needle rifle respawn time.
-Find a way to limit the spartans getting to the banshee
-Give the elites on spire more chance to get up to the top before the core is dropped down.
-Fix the spawns for phase 2/3 on Breakpoint
-Make and find community maps fit for matchmaking

Yes, I have also posted this on the HW forums, however, I tend to get more replies here.
Questions? Comments? Feel free to discuss :)

[Edited on 01.02.2012 12:37 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:15 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul
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Banned just for calling someone retarded? lolBnet mods
Duardo = retard

So you think Reach is an actual Halo game, huh? LOL
Jesus! There's a BoB in ma Falcon!

Agreed 100%

Although I think another problem for Boneyard is the 2 generators that the Elites have to stand in for 20 seconds in phase 1 are WAY to close to each other.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 12:32 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:31 PM PDT


Posted by: Destiny 7
Too long did not read.

You want this website: http://halo.xbox.com. Bungie no longer controls Halo.

There was like 3 different times that I mentioned the TLDR at the bottom. I also said that I have posted this on the 343 site as well.



Posted by: Junior Exec
Agreed 100%

Although I think another problem for Boneyard is the 2 generators that the Elites have to stand in for 20 seconds are WAY to close to each other.

I agree, and if it was possible to make a generator take 25 seconds, I probably would've mentioned it.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 12:32 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:31 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul (TL;DR at bottom)
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Banned just for calling someone retarded? lolBnet mods
Duardo = retard

So you think Reach is an actual Halo game, huh? LOL
Jesus! There's a BoB in ma Falcon!


Posted by: Destiny 7
Too long did not read.

You want this website: http://halo.xbox.com. Bungie no longer controls Halo.
Funny how you completely ignore what the OP said and say "go here" as if its a solution to the OP's statement.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 12:47 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:34 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul

I agree with a lot of what you said.
I personally feel its desperate for a couple of maps and I really hope there are a few community ones that are up to scratch because paid DLC is not the answer(Im looking at you breakpoint,if only I could play on you)

  • 01.02.2012 12:39 PM PDT


Posted by: CHOC D
paid DLC is not the answer(Im looking at you breakpoint,if only I could play on you)

Yeah, that's the other issue.. I've gotten breakpoint twice in the last 3 months.

  • 01.02.2012 12:42 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul (TL;DR at bottom)

R.I.P CrunchyBoi 22 (old profile)

Agreed.

  • 01.02.2012 12:44 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul


Posted by: Wumpa Warrior

Posted by: CHOC D
paid DLC is not the answer(Im looking at you breakpoint,if only I could play on you)

Yeah, that's the other issue.. I've gotten breakpoint twice in the last 3 months.

And that sucks extra hard because invasion is awesome on that map.

  • 01.02.2012 12:46 PM PDT
Subject: Invasion Overhaul (TL;DR at bottom)

Agreeee
I play hardcore core carrier and on boneyard I'm able to get it right to the door then die by the little shotgunners.. then I can never do anything after that except rush, throw nades, die. Shotguns need to go.

  • 01.02.2012 12:46 PM PDT


Posted by: CHOC D

Posted by: Wumpa Warrior

Posted by: CHOC D
paid DLC is not the answer(Im looking at you breakpoint,if only I could play on you)

Yeah, that's the other issue.. I've gotten breakpoint twice in the last 3 months.

And that sucks extra hard because invasion is awesome on that map.

Exactly! I think that forgers should look at breakpoint for inspiration.


Posted by: Pryo Poison
Agreeee
I play hardcore core carrier and on boneyard I'm able to get it right to the door then die by the little shotgunners.. then I can never do anything after that except rush, throw nades, die. Shotguns need to go.

Yeah, too many shotguns, especially paired with AL is extremely annoying.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 12:50 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 12:47 PM PDT

The real problem with Invasion:

DMR>Needle Rifle
Shotgun>Energy Sword
Scorpion>Everything
Sniper Rifle>Focus Rifle
Warthog>Ghost
Falcon>Banshee
Pistol>Plasma Pistol
Assault Rifle>Plasma Rifle and Plasma Repeater
Grenade Launcher>Concussion Rifle

It only takes a couple games of Invasion to realize just how crazily overpowered the Spartan side is.

The fact that the Elites win is either due to the Spartan team being full of idiots or sheer throwing themselves at the objective luck.

[Edited on 01.02.2012 2:23 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 2:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

I agree. These are obvious problems that never should have happened. Too bad they won't be fixed in this game. Lets hope it fixed for Halo 4 and if not ask for it to be fixed in Halo 5.

[Edited on 01.03.2012 2:58 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2012 3:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Drowsy Demon

While I do agree with you completely, in this thread I'm looking at things that can be changed in the custom game settings or in forge.

Posted by: RC Clone
I agree. These are obvious problems that never should have happened. Too bad they won't her fixed in this game. Lets hope it fixed for Halo 4 and if not ask for it to be fixed in Halo 5.

If enough people have this opinion, 343 will be much more convinced to change their views.

  • 01.02.2012 7:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Wumpa Warrior
-Get rid of the 'nade launcher loadout.

I agree with everything except this part. Without the grenade launcher loadout, the vehicles would become imbalanced on certain maps.

  • 01.03.2012 2:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: falconman2207

Posted by: Wumpa Warrior
-Get rid of the 'nade launcher loadout.

I agree with everything except this part. Without the grenade launcher loadout, the vehicles would become imbalanced on certain maps.

Give us nade launcher weapon caches. No more infinite Nade Launchers to use on infantry.

  • 01.03.2012 3:00 PM PDT

All the problems listed can be fixed by people who know what they're doing and that there is a counter for everything in reach, you just need to figure it out

  • 01.03.2012 4:08 PM PDT

Burn Bright, Burn Blue. Become one of KOGU, the Fire of Pride!

I agree with most of this. However, keep the shotguns and nade launchers. Maybe limit how many swords? Like, each player has 1-2 spawns with a sword, then your out of that class?

  • 01.03.2012 4:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Mister Gigglez
All the problems listed can be fixed by people who know what they're doing and that there is a counter for everything in reach, you just need to figure it out

All of these problems have a relativelly simple solution that would take about 10 minutes to fix..

  • 01.03.2012 4:19 PM PDT


Posted by: TheSilverhead
I agree with most of this. However, keep the shotguns

I can understand the nade launchers to a certain extent.. But the shotgun should be taken completely out of any loadouts.

Posted by: RC Clone

Give us nade launcher weapon caches. No more infinite Nade Launchers to use on infantry.

This is a very good idea. I already stated above that especially on boneyard, rockets are so powerful in close quarters.

[Edited on 01.03.2012 4:22 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2012 4:20 PM PDT

Inheritor # 1,117 Overall via HaloCharts
Inheritor # 275 in United States

I definitely agree with the spartans needing some DMR spawns in PH1 on Spire. Against anyone with common sense, its pretty difficult to get past PH1.

  • 01.03.2012 4:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Chris Vaguecmac

Agreed, they should also spawn a little closer to the objectives..

  • 01.03.2012 8:08 PM PDT

~ Videogames are my favorite videogames ~

The concussion rifle, the bane of defenders on Boneyard.
Hard to armor lock when you're bouncing in the air. And huge AOE too of course for those tight closed hallways.

[Edited on 01.03.2012 8:17 PM PST]

  • 01.03.2012 8:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Wumpa Warrior

Posted by: Mister Gigglez
All the problems listed can be fixed by people who know what they're doing and that there is a counter for everything in reach, you just need to figure it out

All of these problems have a relativelly simple solution that would take about 10 minutes to fix..
Invasion is more balanced than you think its all in player skill, all the solutions i read would severly impact the balance and gameplay of Invasion

[Edited on 01.04.2012 10:05 AM PST]

  • 01.04.2012 10:04 AM PDT


Posted by: Mister Gigglez

I disagree with this.. Yes, a lot of the fun of invasion depends on player skill, but put two perfectly balanced teams against eachother on Boneyard P3, and they can just camp with shotgun and AL. And on Spire P1, a team that gets high ground AND long range weapons should always. ALWAYS win.

On Spire, two balanced teams, if the spartans get hold of the banshee, the spartans will capture the core if they are'nt stupid.

The biggest thing here, is starting with power weapons, because it makes everyone on the spartan team win. Shotgun > sword

  • 01.04.2012 3:23 PM PDT

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