Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]
  • Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]
Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind

But if the Precursors were graveminds, why would they create life in the galaxy just to use the flood to turn around and consume everything? Unless of course the Precursors weren't the ones who created life in the galaxy.

Well it sounds like the Flood didn't plan on consuming everything, given the Captive's testimony and Didact's understanding. The Precursors are apparently known for creating - and destroying - life at the their whim. The Forerunners found out that they were next in line for extermination, and fought back. Perhaps they assimilate knowledge/experience/"misery" from the races they kill? Also puts into question the true purpose of the Mantle, I think.

  • 01.05.2012 5:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Why is ONI frustrated with how many monitors there are?

What "debate" was there about spartans being "the only reclaimers"? We have known since Harvest that all humans are reclaimers.


The Precursors and Flood are one and the same. Humanity never found a cure for the flood, but it was the fact they were willing to submit themselves as if they did which caused they flood-precursors, to stop.


That is the Mantle. To give yourself up to the flood

  • 01.05.2012 6:37 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
That is the Mantle. To give yourself up to the flood


In my opinion this could be the plot of Halo 4.

Modern humanity clearly didnt do this (give yourself to the flood). We fought and somewhat destroyed a form of the flood.

It this where the mysterious ancient evil awakening reference comes from. Something awakening to battle modern humans who defied it and didnt give itself to the flood (as the forerunners once also didnt do).

  • 01.05.2012 7:10 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls

Posted by: grey101
That is the Mantle. To give yourself up to the flood


In my opinion this could be the plot of Halo 4.

Modern humanity clearly didnt do this (give yourself to the flood). We fought and somewhat destroyed a form of the flood.

It this where the mysterious ancient evil awakening reference comes from. Something awakening to battle modern humans who defied it and didnt give itself to the flood (as the forerunners once also didnt do).


right and wrong.


It is humans chance to be tried to see if they could uphold the mantle. We got off last time because we gave some of ourselves up, this time we would have to fully submit as a race.

  • 01.05.2012 7:15 AM PDT
  • This post has been reported for violating the code of conduct. Click arrow to view at your own risk.
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: teabag1337
Lol at nerds.

Get a life.


Yet you signed up for the same videogame forum as us.

  • 01.05.2012 7:26 AM PDT
  • This post has been reported for violating the code of conduct. Click arrow to view at your own risk.

Please report him, ignore him and lets continue on.

  • 01.05.2012 7:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Posted by: DorkLord54

Posted by: Elder Bias

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I don't think the Flood are Precursors. Not anymore anyway. What the Precursors used to be is long gone from this world, replaced by the Flood, what they are now.

By the way I find it highly unlikely 343 is still alive after watching him explode after being shot by a Splazor like 5 times, just sayin'.


... They found damaged core and repaired it. Thus resurrecting 343 Guilty Spark. Simple as that. Even it's in Primordium.


Does the book ever explain how Chakas came to be 343?


Probably the same way humans create AIs. What I don't get is how they retrieved 343's core. It got blasted with a Spartan Laser around 5 times, fell from a height that would cause most items to be smashed into little pieces, was LITERALLY in the middle of an exploding Halo ring, then landed on the Ark, which blew up as well (And probably with a blast 50x larger than 04B's), and not to mention the explosion from a slipspace portal. And judging from Halo 2 and ODST, that would fry every electronic in sight, and cause a good bit of physical damage. I'm beginning to wonder if he will ever just STAY dead.

  • 01.05.2012 8:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

While my theory on the TO's origin was mostly wrong I like the fact that I correctly guessed that the TO believes fulfilling the mantle means converting everything to the Flood. Can I say "Called it!"?

  • 01.05.2012 8:25 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The Installation moniters were probably created from chakas since each of them are sinful in some way. They didn't find 343 but decide to say it is 343 for political reasons i don't understand. And Gameplay isn't canon.

  • 01.05.2012 8:27 AM PDT


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Posted by: DorkLord54

Posted by: Elder Bias

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I don't think the Flood are Precursors. Not anymore anyway. What the Precursors used to be is long gone from this world, replaced by the Flood, what they are now.

By the way I find it highly unlikely 343 is still alive after watching him explode after being shot by a Splazor like 5 times, just sayin'.


... They found damaged core and repaired it. Thus resurrecting 343 Guilty Spark. Simple as that. Even it's in Primordium.


Does the book ever explain how Chakas came to be 343?


Probably the same way humans create AIs. What I don't get is how they retrieved 343's core. It got blasted with a Spartan Laser around 5 times, fell from a height that would cause most items to be smashed into little pieces, was LITERALLY in the middle of an exploding Halo ring, then landed on the Ark, which blew up as well (And probably with a blast 50x larger than 04B's), and not to mention the explosion from a slipspace portal. And judging from Halo 2 and ODST, that would fry every electronic in sight, and cause a good bit of physical damage. I'm beginning to wonder if he will ever just STAY dead.


They may have gotten the core by other means, like data storage or something in some Forerunner device that held a copy for the Monitors in case of emergency.

  • 01.05.2012 8:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Maybe 343 has cloud capabilities. If a shell is destroyed the information from it is uploaded to a new shell. I really hope Spark will eventually go for good.

  • 01.05.2012 8:30 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999
Can I say "Called it!"?


Yes.

  • 01.05.2012 8:38 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Xd00999
I really hope Spark will eventually go for good.


If so, I hope he gets the send-off he deserves. He was handled horribly in Halo 3, he was treated by Bungie as if he's a joke, yet his character has got such depth to it, especially with this Chakas revelation.

  • 01.05.2012 8:38 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Xd00999
Can I say "Called it!"?


Yes.

Called it!
All I really need to do is change some small details around and it would fit perfectly.

  • 01.05.2012 8:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Xd00999
I really hope Spark will eventually go for good.


If so, I hope he gets the send-off he deserves. He was handled horribly in Halo 3, he was treated by Bungie as if he's a joke, yet his character has got such depth to it, especially with this Chakas revelation.

True. But what sendoff wouldbe worthy for the lightbulb?

  • 01.05.2012 8:45 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: VannesSTRANGLER
But if the Precursors were graveminds, why would they create life in the galaxy just to use the flood to turn around and consume everything? Unless of course the Precursors weren't the ones who created life in the galaxy.


The Precursors were not Graveminds. Reread my first post. The second half of that argument dismisses that claim.


Posted by: grey101
Why is ONI frustrated with how many monitors there are?


Probably because they are more powerful than us, and Humans have long since felt fear/resentment to those that are stronger.

What "debate" was there about spartans being "the only reclaimers"? We have known since Harvest that all humans are reclaimers.

That argument is long passed your time. It's really not important, and shouldn't be the focus of discussion.

The Precursors and Flood are one and the same. Humanity never found a cure for the flood, but it was the fact they were willing to submit themselves as if they did which caused they flood-precursors, to stop.That is the Mantle. To give yourself up to the flood

The claim that Humanity did not actually find a cure for the Shaping Sickness is true, yes, but what evidence do you have to support the other claims?

  • 01.05.2012 9:19 AM PDT

I disagree when it comes to discussing the meaning of Reclaimer. The next 3 Halo games are designated the Reclaimer Trilogy. Despite a lot of talk in the games and novels, we still do not have a clue what Reclaimer truly means. Are we re-claiming the Mantle? Are we re-claiming our interstellar dominance? What are we re-claiming?

  • 01.05.2012 10:44 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: superman18123
I disagree when it comes to discussing the meaning of Reclaimer. The next 3 Halo games are designated the Reclaimer Trilogy. Despite a lot of talk in the games and novels, we still do not have a clue what Reclaimer truly means. Are we re-claiming the Mantle? Are we re-claiming our interstellar dominance? What are we re-claiming?


I think "reclaimer" has been taken too literally. I don't think it is important what the dictionary definition of the word is.

  • 01.05.2012 11:03 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

"Everything the Monitor has related ties in with other Forerunner records we have discovered - including the Bornstellar Relation found on Onyx."
- Science Team Leader, c. 2553(?)

Why couldn't this have been part of Glasslands? The book would have enticed me to read it much more if something like this was included.

  • 01.05.2012 12:11 PM PDT

So...

Chakas became a monitor which was 343 Guilty Spark, but he also alluded to having lots of clones about the place that humanity may have bumped into and had trouble with.

Humans were called reclaimers because mendicant bias set them up on a Halo to get revenge on the Forerunners (and fulfil his own plan at the same time)

The captive told humanity that the flood had strategically retreated from its war against them, rather than actually be defeated. This had the effect of crushing human moral during their ongoing second war against the Forerunner. Finding out that your bitterly faught victory at the cost of 1/3rd of your species was meaningless and hollow would be quite depressing. On the other hand, the truth of the claim is dubious as we get the sense that the captive is evil and manipulative and corrupts the psyche of others to further his own goals. His claim to be the last precursor also seem dubious.

Imprints of Forerunner era humans have been spread widely throughout the human population. Therefore there could be some twist like John 117 = Forthenco Lord of Admirals (in fact.... Master Chief... Lord of Admirals...) and the spirit inside Riser = Halsey/Cortana. This would be kind of lame though. But at least it would explain that line from Cortana to 117 - 'You had something the others lacked: luck.' What does a chick mean when she says you're about to get lucky? There was an implied romance between those two ancient humans.

The human population may not have actually sacrificed itself to the flood so much as take part in an immunisation program that had the side effect of making them go sterile. This would explain the staggering 1/3rd decrease in population (i highly doubt humans would literally just make themselves walking bioweapons on that scale) and the eventual loss to the forerunners - we simply didn't have enough people left to man all the necessary defences.

Precursor also means this:
A substance from which another is formed, esp. by metabolic reaction.
Which does sound a bit like the Flood, doesn't it? (also makes me think about the name, 'LifeShaper'. maybe Librarian is a Precursor? She's certainly old enough)

On the other hand at some point i'm sure the book alluded to the idea that the Flood was only one kind of Precursor, or maybe it just meant one kind of Flood. The latter would fit in with the idea that the Flood is the inevitable culmination of evolution and it would always return at some point in the future, maybe just somewhat different, as long as things continue to evolve.

But maybe the Captive meant he was the last Precursor only in behaviour, not in genus. There were other great species like those who built the ruins of Harrum Chakkor, who possessed the ability to shape life, create species - but they have all been killed except for the Captive. So in a sense he is the last Precursor.

Maybe the Precursors are all the ancient, magnificent civilisations who have fallen to the Flood, and who thus 'are' the Flood, controlled by the Captive, aka a Gravemind, aka The Last Precursor.

Oh and then finally we learn that 343 has commandeered a human ship and will be taking it to the location of Cortana (who would have accessed the same information and reached the same conclusions and set her path accordingly) where he expects to find the LifeShaper. Who will probably be still alive because of the time lock technology described by Chakas when he gained access to Halo 7's systems and capabilities (the Halo could turn itself into a massive time lock, though it would give out such a strong energy signature that people would be able to find it).

Then when we get inside we'll learn that Precursors = the LifeShaper = Riser's ghost = Halsey = Cortana; and Precorsors also = Didact = Forthenco = John 117. And the Flood are just a nuisance.

  • 01.05.2012 12:34 PM PDT

I just don't buy that Precursors are Graveminds 100%. Maybe some off-shoot or rare evolution of them etc but not the entire race of Precursors.

It just does not fit the mystery of precursors, further when have we ever seen Flood create? They overwhelm, assimilate and use existing technology. Flood do not create technology or species etc.

Clearly the precursors were/are very advanced, if they're just Flood none of the technology or structures or history of Forerunner vs. Precursor would really exist now would it.

The Flood's one goal is to basically assimilate everything, with this in mind I just don't see Flood being Precursor as valid in the Haloverse.

[Edited on 01.05.2012 4:29 PM PST]

  • 01.05.2012 4:23 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan

I don't know why but I am getting the feeling that this new Halo trilogy is going to be the Galaxy v Forerunners v Ancient enemy.

  • 01.05.2012 4:31 PM PDT

There are a lot of hints towards going down the path other science fiction stories have over the years, the Precursor and Flood link for one? Precursors create Flood, Flood destroy Precursors, other examples of the same concept are Terminator universe, Battlestar Galactica, The Matrix and so on.

Always personally thought that the Flood were a weapon or an end-game of some kind, a weapon of revenge unleashed upon the Forerunner after they destroyed their creators, similar to the relationship between the Xel'Naga, Protoss and Zerg, Protoss being purity of essence and Zerg being purity of form, each represents on part of their creators, but in the end only the Zerg can truly prevail and consume all, resulting in peace.

Also not to seem off topic but, my best mate included, why the hell does everyone assume that the destruction of Installation 04-B destroyed Installation 00, the Ark was immense beyond belief even compared to one of the Halo weapons. Also Halo does nothing to non-organic matter, so it would have had no affect on the superstructure of Installation 00. Am I the only person who thinks the Ark survived and would be repaired by the army of constructs is possesses, don't forget those same constructs built the new Installation 04 from essentially raw material, repairing the Ark shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

  • 01.05.2012 6:35 PM PDT