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  • Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]
Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]


Posted by: I Nebula I
I don't know why but I am getting the feeling that this new Halo trilogy is going to be the Galaxy v Forerunners v Ancient enemy.


I just want a decent book that focuses on the forerunners more i.e. i love my technology. It would be great if someone delved into the forerunners wiping out the precursors and how did the forerunners know etc and how did they find the precursors.

Also its interesting if you think about it as at least some of the precursors were in this galaxy for what ever reason.

  • 01.05.2012 8:16 PM PDT

My honor student can beat up your honor student.

Just finished the book.

Mind. Blown.

So this book basically confirms that the Forerunners and Humans are at war (repeated mentions of the Didact as a agressor towards humanity, the ancient Human-Forerunner was called the 1st Human-Forerunner War).

And somehow 343 Guilty Spark is still alive (or at least a fragment of him is). How and where humans come in contact with him is currently beyond me, but this has given me quite a bit to think about.



And just for the record. My theory about Forerunner bad-guys was right. Nana Nana Boo Boo.

  • 01.05.2012 9:03 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

Also not to seem off topic but, my best mate included, why the hell does everyone assume that the destruction of Installation 04-B destroyed Installation 00, the Ark was immense beyond belief even compared to one of the Halo weapons. Also Halo does nothing to non-organic matter, so it would have had no affect on the superstructure of Installation 00. Am I the only person who thinks the Ark survived and would be repaired by the army of constructs is possesses, don't forget those same constructs built the new Installation 04 from essentially raw material, repairing the Ark shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Even if the Ark was destroyed it would mean nothing. Page 375 specifically states that there are two Arks. The other Ark is probably still functional and capable of cranking out a Halo or two.

  • 01.05.2012 9:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Wazooty

The precursors really remind me of the Xel'Naga (for those familiar with starcraft lore). The protoss being their failed creations, and the zerg being the ones that will unite all their creations under one banner.


Fun fact: Bungie originally set out to make HALO CE as a real time strategy game, but decided otherwise because they felt that StarCraft was basically the game they would have been making. So I would wager the story lines have non-coincidental similarities.

All I know is if/when we deal with flood in H4 it better be a far different creature than what we are used to. They were cool and interesting in CE... and meeting the Gravemind wasnt terrible in 2, and the mutated ship in 3 was an interesting level, but really they've just become bland and repetitive. They arnt even fun to fight.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 8:35 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 8:32 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: MickelPickel
Just finished the book.

Mind. Blown.

So this book basically confirms that the Forerunners and Humans are at war (repeated mentions of the Didact as a agressor towards humanity, the ancient Human-Forerunner was called the 1st Human-Forerunner War).

And somehow 343 Guilty Spark is still alive (or at least a fragment of him is). How and where humans come in contact with him is currently beyond me, but this has given me quite a bit to think about.



And just for the record. My theory about Forerunner bad-guys was right. Nana Nana Boo Boo.


We already knew all of that, and what "theory"?

  • 01.06.2012 8:33 AM PDT

Why are you here?

Just woke up in the morning, real groggy, and book hasn't arrived yet.


From what I see it appears that the Precursors were gonna die out, so they created the Flood to carry their knowledge through the test of time, maybe like actually sacrificing their bodies into the Flood.


It doesn't look like the Precursors were always actually Flood, just now they are.

  • 01.06.2012 9:58 AM PDT


Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
Just woke up in the morning, real groggy, and book hasn't arrived yet.


From what I see it appears that the Precursors were gonna die out, so they created the Flood to carry their knowledge through the test of time, maybe like actually sacrificing their bodies into the Flood.


It doesn't look like the Precursors were always actually Flood, just now they are.


There is no mentioned at all in any of the books that the precursors were dying out. The precursors created the flood in order to wipe the forerunners out and give the humans a chance to live up to the mantle (it appears this way)

  • 01.06.2012 11:42 AM PDT

Waypoint Moderators aren't really Moderators, just power hungry and its goal is defend their beloved Halo at all costs. (Meaning that they wank Halo too much.)

BS Angel is alleged foe so, be wary of Waypoint and its moderators! Do not attempt to move to Waypoint. Enter your own risk.

*WARNING* IT IS MY OPINION.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: MickelPickel
Just finished the book.

Mind. Blown.

So this book basically confirms that the Forerunners and Humans are at war (repeated mentions of the Didact as a agressor towards humanity, the ancient Human-Forerunner was called the 1st Human-Forerunner War).

And somehow 343 Guilty Spark is still alive (or at least a fragment of him is). How and where humans come in contact with him is currently beyond me, but this has given me quite a bit to think about.



And just for the record. My theory about Forerunner bad-guys was right. Nana Nana Boo Boo.


We already knew all of that, and what "theory"?


Ah, there is a problem. Forerunners are Culture-tier race. UNSC wouldn't have any chance against it if they were faced against Forerunners. I think everyone is misreading that part in matter. Think about it, it's doubtful that Halo 4 would have enemy as Forerunners. Master Chief would be shredded in seconds!

  • 01.06.2012 11:58 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Elder Bias

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: MickelPickel
Just finished the book.

Mind. Blown.

So this book basically confirms that the Forerunners and Humans are at war (repeated mentions of the Didact as a agressor towards humanity, the ancient Human-Forerunner was called the 1st Human-Forerunner War).

And somehow 343 Guilty Spark is still alive (or at least a fragment of him is). How and where humans come in contact with him is currently beyond me, but this has given me quite a bit to think about.



And just for the record. My theory about Forerunner bad-guys was right. Nana Nana Boo Boo.


We already knew all of that, and what "theory"?


Ah, there is a problem. Forerunners are Culture-tier race. UNSC wouldn't have any chance against it if they were faced against Forerunners. I think everyone is misreading that part in matter. Think about it, it's doubtful that Halo 4 would have enemy as Forerunners. Master Chief would be shredded in seconds!


And the fact adult forerunners are 10- 16 feet tall.

Hunters are not their actual size in the games which is why people (foolishly) think they are "bigger" in ODST and Reach because you are smaller.

*Edited. A 16 foot forerunner would be the size of a female giraffe.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 10:02 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 8:15 PM PDT

That's a huge b1tch, I know in their orginal form they are silimarish in size to current humans (if memory serves) I could be wrong but those mutations sure do turn you into bigfoot

  • 01.06.2012 9:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Urban GFX
That's a huge b1tch, I know in their orginal form they are silimarish in size to current humans (if memory serves) I could be wrong but those mutations sure do turn you into bigfoot


Not even, we worked out an estimate of bornstellar being 8 feet tall as a 12 year old first form.

  • 01.06.2012 9:59 PM PDT

Ahh, I wasnt sure. I didnt think such a big growth could be attributed to the mutations.

Ahh what fun the Halo world is, isnt it lol.


BTW Grey, I assume you have read Primordium now, if so what did you think of it - in comparision to my -blam!- little summary lol

[Edited on 01.07.2012 1:40 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 1:39 AM PDT


Posted by: MickelPickel
Just finished the book.

Mind. Blown.

So this book basically confirms that the Forerunners and Humans are at war (repeated mentions of the Didact as a agressor towards humanity, the ancient Human-Forerunner was called the 1st Human-Forerunner War).


I disagree entirely. This showed NOTHING as far as humans and forerunner being at war (as far as halo 4-6 is concerned). If anything, they're going to be buddies, helping each other to beat the unbeatable enemy.

Please tell me what about the book showed that humans and forerunner will be at war? Didact WAS an aggressor towards humanity in the human-forerunner war, but that was ages before the forerunner trilogy takes place. If anything, the new bornstellar-didact is a bro to humanity. I expect didact and the librarian have been preparing for the return of the precursors for all these centuries, this time looking to aid humanity.

Not saying there wont be fighting with forerunners, but I imagine the major focus of the trilogy is fighting the precursors.

[Edited on 01.07.2012 6:20 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 6:14 AM PDT

The humans and what ever remains of the forerunners are nearly guarenteed to not be at war. It just wouldn't make sence for forerunners to wage war against the humans if any still exist and if they did, what would the point be as we certainly wouldnt start the war.

  • 01.07.2012 7:17 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

So the lord of admirals is not straight from what I gather.
Forerunner armor allows for great speeds and jumping height.
Halos can make themselves immune to exterior change/damage too
A death star vs a halo, a death star would fire and the halo would deflect, then it could fire or it could pass trough the death star and use the spokes of hard light to destroy it! Wonderfull.

  • 01.07.2012 10:36 PM PDT

Just finished reading a little while ago. My head is spinning and I intend to go back and read the conversation between the Didact and the Captive again. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the conversation, and the whole Chakas/343GS thing.

Definitely a great book, with a whole lot more new questions than answers, which sets up nicely for the third book. I've thoroughly enjoyed every Halo novel, but Greg Bear's work on the Forerunner trilogy has been absolutely outstanding.

[Edited on 01.07.2012 10:50 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 10:45 PM PDT

5 years and counting on Bungie. I feel old and worthless.

All of a sudden, 343GS is pretty badass. I didn't like it when he killed Johnson, but still. He's Chakas for -blam!- sakes!

  • 01.08.2012 3:44 AM PDT

Silver


Posted by: Spartan 100
So the lord of admirals is not straight from what I gather.
Forerunner armor allows for great speeds and jumping height.
Halos can make themselves immune to exterior change/damage too
A death star vs a halo, a death star would fire and the halo would deflect, then it could fire or it could pass trough the death star and use the spokes of hard light to destroy it! Wonderfull.


That would explain how the mysterious purple guy in the H4 cut scene removed from the game released months ago moved about so quickly.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 4:12 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 4:11 AM PDT

Why are you here?


Posted by: Urban GFX

Posted by: PISTOLSQUIRREL
Just woke up in the morning, real groggy, and book hasn't arrived yet.


From what I see it appears that the Precursors were gonna die out, so they created the Flood to carry their knowledge through the test of time, maybe like actually sacrificing their bodies into the Flood.


It doesn't look like the Precursors were always actually Flood, just now they are.


There is no mentioned at all in any of the books that the precursors were dying out. The precursors created the flood in order to wipe the forerunners out and give the humans a chance to live up to the mantle (it appears this way)



Yeah, I guess that's what I meant. I myself think that the Precursors still exist and are outside our galaxy, doing something else.


[Edited on 01.08.2012 10:19 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 10:18 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25

The claim that Humanity did not actually find a cure for the Shaping Sickness is true, yes, but what evidence do you have to support the other claims?


The entire conversation the Didact was having with the Primordial when it was saying everything must be converted into flood for unity and wisdom.

  • 01.08.2012 12:11 PM PDT

It is quite possible that the primordial, precursors, and flood are one and the same with the flood being building blocks to precursors and precursors being perfected graveminds based on some facts given about all three.

-precursors may not be the first species, but are the most advanced
-flood depend on other species to survive
-flood assimilates the knowledge of its victims

Based on these, it is possible that the flood consumed species to evolve, in a sense, to become the precursors by absobing the intelligence and tech of the species around them. Over time, they would become advanced enough to create or accelerate the evolution of life for food. Evidence of this includes how the primordial states he is only the last of a type of precursor indicating that there may be many types of them from different types of host compositions as there are many different kinds of graveminds based on host composition.

The primordial also states to the didact that the forerunners destroyed only some of the precursors while the rest left this galaxy and creation still continues in other galaxies. The intorduction of the flood into this galaxy was via spaceships from a different galaxy as stated in cryptum, possibly linking precursors and flood one and the same.

Furthermore, the primordial's understanding of the mantle may be far different from the one of the forerunners as the mantle for them may mean those who protect life in the long run allowing the flood to exist. Clearly he doesnt want the forerunners to combat the flood since they would wipe out all sentient life in the process. Humans on the other hand sacrificed themselves leaving other species intact for later flood harvesting.

Also, the lack of an actual cure for the flood suggests that the flood is the way that precursors are made, eat, and reproduce similar to the way that there is no such thing as a cure for humans eating other animals and stuff and mating.

The fact that precursor artifacts are based on neural (and thus possibly organic) materials further the possible connection between precursor and flood as all flood "architecture" is just a mass of flesh though with function (see the doors on high charity in halo 3).

  • 01.08.2012 3:01 PM PDT

Grey, this might be a stretch but here i go...
The whole unity and wisdom factor I agree that it means the flood consuming everything, but I still have another theory based one the claims of unity-(pg 364 says "the flood will return when they (humans) are ripe, and bring them unity) could this be that humanity is being challenged/at war with the covenant, and the flood came to try to "unite" those species together against a common foe (similar to Transformer's 'till all are one') so that they can help uphold the mantle?
pg 365 "Last of this kind" I read someone say you theorized that Precursors could be multiple races.
is it at all possible that Primordium wants humanity to be reclaimers of their Mantle with the aid of other races? When they are ripe...I suddenly think of Glasslands with the "treaty" with Sanghelies..

Look, I know that this is far fetched but just something to think about.


Another question, anyone have any theories when the science team is talking the the 343GS duplicate/Chakas? Could this be after the events of Halo3, even several years after? or even beforehand? They never say GS is dead, that it is but a Duplicate. "Shedding all of my former self" Halo CEA terminal, could the "dupe" but that piece that 343GS shed off?

Do I make any sense as I go off on my obsessive analysis?

I am just throwing out ideas. I don't even think I am neither wrong nor right..

  • 01.08.2012 3:23 PM PDT


Posted by: thefallenlords
It is quite possible that the primordial, precursors, and flood are one and the same with the flood being building blocks to precursors and precursors being perfected graveminds based on some facts given about all three.

-precursors may not be the first species, but are the most advanced
-flood depend on other species to survive
-flood assimilates the knowledge of its victims

Based on these, it is possible that the flood consumed species to evolve, in a sense, to become the precursors by absobing the intelligence and tech of the species around them. Over time, they would become advanced enough to create or accelerate the evolution of life for food. Evidence of this includes how the primordial states he is only the last of a type of precursor indicating that there may be many types of them from different types of host compositions as there are many different kinds of graveminds based on host composition.

The primordial also states to the didact that the forerunners destroyed only some of the precursors while the rest left this galaxy and creation still continues in other galaxies. The intorduction of the flood into this galaxy was via spaceships from a different galaxy as stated in cryptum, possibly linking precursors and flood one and the same.

Furthermore, the primordial's understanding of the mantle may be far different from the one of the forerunners as the mantle for them may mean those who protect life in the long run allowing the flood to exist. Clearly he doesnt want the forerunners to combat the flood since they would wipe out all sentient life in the process. Humans on the other hand sacrificed themselves leaving other species intact for later flood harvesting.

Also, the lack of an actual cure for the flood suggests that the flood is the way that precursors are made, eat, and reproduce similar to the way that there is no such thing as a cure for humans eating other animals and stuff and mating.

The fact that precursor artifacts are based on neural (and thus possibly organic) materials further the possible connection between precursor and flood as all flood "architecture" is just a mass of flesh though with function (see the doors on high charity in halo 3).




This is great thinking, great thinking with the mantle. Great writing.

  • 01.08.2012 3:38 PM PDT

I may not be grey, but my two cents on the matter...

Posted by: Shards77
The whole unity and wisdom factor I agree that it means the flood consuming everything, but I still have another theory based one the claims of unity-(pg 364 says "the flood will return when they (humans) are ripe, and bring them unity) could this be that humanity is being challenged/at war with the covenant, and the flood came to try to "unite" those species together against a common foe (similar to Transformer's 'till all are one') so that they can help uphold the mantle?
pg 365 "Last of this kind" I read someone say you theorized that Precursors could be multiple races.
is it at all possible that Primordium wants humanity to be reclaimers of their Mantle with the aid of other races? When they are ripe...I suddenly think of Glasslands with the "treaty" with Sanghelies..


Your theories seem fairly reasonable. After all, the forerunners have some control of time with the timelock/anti timelock thing then whos to say that precursors couldnt look forward in time. Pre-covenant war, humans were fighting themselves or at least uneasy with each other well into the fall of reach timeframe (halo first stike I think is the book that mentions this). Furthermore, humanity wouldve had a hard time to expel the flood from Africa without the help of the elites in halo 3. Considering that the precursors chose humanity to uphold the mantle, they would want humanity to last as long as possible for better or worse.


Another question, anyone have any theories when the science team is talking the the 343GS duplicate/Chakas? Could this be after the events of Halo3, even several years after? or even beforehand? They never say GS is dead, that it is but a Duplicate. "Shedding all of my former self" Halo CEA terminal, could the "dupe" but that piece that 343GS shed off?


It isnt very clear as to when the science team interogation is taking place, though it is possible that it is post halo 3. Prior to it, the only human that met 343 is master chief/cortana who wouldve believed that he blew up on halo anyway. In halo 2, johnson meets him and could theoretically introduce him to humanity, but there is no ring for him to defend at that point. The best time period of when the unsc fully realizes what he is is when the forward unto dawn appears near the end of halo 3 where a full ship needs only one person to make a report about 343 and the installation.

I could be wrong but the part where he says he is shedding something refers to his connection to the domain unless you are talking about a different terminal than the one I am thinking about. Regardless, it makes sense that the didact would duplicate chakas or at least parts of him seeing as how he is the didact's friend and has proven himself to be useful anyway. It would also make sense to put him in charge of a halo since at least he isnt mendicant bias and aligning himself with the flood (though this is merely a wild conjecture).

In light of the CEA terminals and the forerunner saga info, this could lead to some very interesting encounters for the master chief and cortana in the future.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 8:51 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 8:48 PM PDT

Just wanted to throw in the quote from Gravemind in Halo 3:

"Child of my makers"

I.e. It (Gravemind) was made by something and we (humanity) are also their child.

Is that enough to say that Prim != Gravemind?

  • 01.09.2012 3:22 AM PDT