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  • Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]
Subject: Halo: Primordium discussion [spoilers]

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Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25

The claim that Humanity did not actually find a cure for the Shaping Sickness is true, yes, but what evidence do you have to support the other claims?


The entire conversation the Didact was having with the Primordial when it was saying everything must be converted into flood for unity and wisdom.


The Flood want to assimilate all life in the galaxy, yes. That part is obvious without the latest book. But I can't find anything in that conversation that would tell me, beyond reasonable doubt, that the Mantle species inherit is to give themselves up to the Flood.

"You will never hold the Mantle" can just as easily be interpreted as "We will consume your entire species now and leave the humans to grow, for now."

If the Mantle was to test whether or not to willingly succumb to the Flood, why fake an immunity in the first place? Why not start infecting and see if the species lay down and die?

  • 01.09.2012 5:39 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls
Just wanted to throw in the quote from Gravemind in Halo 3:

"Child of my makers"

I.e. It (Gravemind) was made by something and we (humanity) are also their child.

Is that enough to say that Prim != Gravemind?


In an earlier post I collected lines that I believe support this theory that the Prisoner/Primordial is indeed a Gravemind, and not a Precursor.

I believe it is either a form of a Precursor, constructed of assimilated organisms, or some ambiguous, intelligent form who claims to be a Precursor, but no one is around to remember what they looked like, so it couldn't have been disputed.


Also, it is important to note that it is a Gravemind, not the Gravemind.

Graveminds are merely the pinnacle of Flood development. It's not a single entity that controls them all that exists once. They can be made, and more than one. It's not the original, and not something that disables all Flood when killed.

  • 01.09.2012 5:45 AM PDT

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Posted by: Elder Bias
Damn. The Librarian aren't dead. Primorodium confirms this.



"Some say she is dead, that she died on Earth. But that is demonstrably untrue." [Halo: Primordium, Chapter 42]

DAMMMMMNNNN!!

  • 01.09.2012 7:28 AM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls
Just wanted to throw in the quote from Gravemind in Halo 3:

"Child of my makers"

I.e. It (Gravemind) was made by something and we (humanity) are also their child.

Is that enough to say that Prim != Gravemind?


In an earlier post I collected lines that I believe support this theory that the Prisoner/Primordial is indeed a Gravemind, and not a Precursor.

I believe it is either a form of a Precursor, constructed of assimilated organisms, or some ambiguous, intelligent form who claims to be a Precursor, but no one is around to remember what they looked like, so it couldn't have been disputed.


Also, it is important to note that it is a Gravemind, not the Gravemind.

Graveminds are merely the pinnacle of Flood development. It's not a single entity that controls them all that exists once. They can be made, and more than one. It's not the original, and not something that disables all Flood when killed.


It seemed to imply that precursors were the pinnacle of flood creation.

Or perhaps a gravemind made of precursors (perhaps what the TO was?).

Hard to say as of now...

Child of my makers...hmmm. Well acording to primordium, humans, forerunner and flood alike were made by the precursors.

First the forerunners, then humans. The forerunners were deemed a failure and the precursors tried to get rid of them, but the forerunner fought back and eliminated most of them. Then, probably after seeing how humans and forerunner alike were endlessly waging war, they made the flood, the only solution to have a single unified and peaceful galaxy.

[Edited on 01.09.2012 7:44 AM PST]

  • 01.09.2012 7:44 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls
Just wanted to throw in the quote from Gravemind in Halo 3:

"Child of my makers"

I.e. It (Gravemind) was made by something and we (humanity) are also their child.

Is that enough to say that Prim != Gravemind?


In an earlier post I collected lines that I believe support this theory that the Prisoner/Primordial is indeed a Gravemind, and not a Precursor.

I believe it is either a form of a Precursor, constructed of assimilated organisms, or some ambiguous, intelligent form who claims to be a Precursor, but no one is around to remember what they looked like, so it couldn't have been disputed.


Also, it is important to note that it is a Gravemind, not the Gravemind.

Graveminds are merely the pinnacle of Flood development. It's not a single entity that controls them all that exists once. They can be made, and more than one. It's not the original, and not something that disables all Flood when killed.


remember there are more than 1 gravemind possible, as said at the end of the book where didact successfully killed 10 of them.

The prisoner is not a gravemind but makes them and mainly used them to defeat the forerunners. What we know for sure is that the Precursor were finding someone to take on their mantle but could not due to if someone failed the test they had to be eradicated.

I also believe that the Prisoner had given up on the ways of the other precursor and so decided that it was time to start a new plan where the flood was the only way to bring complete unity and wisdom to the entire world.

  • 01.09.2012 8:15 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Wazooty

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: RedSpiseeBalls
Just wanted to throw in the quote from Gravemind in Halo 3:

"Child of my makers"

I.e. It (Gravemind) was made by something and we (humanity) are also their child.

Is that enough to say that Prim != Gravemind?


In an earlier post I collected lines that I believe support this theory that the Prisoner/Primordial is indeed a Gravemind, and not a Precursor.

I believe it is either a form of a Precursor, constructed of assimilated organisms, or some ambiguous, intelligent form who claims to be a Precursor, but no one is around to remember what they looked like, so it couldn't have been disputed.


Also, it is important to note that it is a Gravemind, not the Gravemind.

Graveminds are merely the pinnacle of Flood development. It's not a single entity that controls them all that exists once. They can be made, and more than one. It's not the original, and not something that disables all Flood when killed.


It seemed to imply that precursors were the pinnacle of flood creation.

Or perhaps a gravemind made of precursors (perhaps what the TO was?).

Hard to say as of now...

Child of my makers...hmmm. Well acording to primordium, humans, forerunner and flood alike were made by the precursors.

First the forerunners, then humans. The forerunners were deemed a failure and the precursors tried to get rid of them, but the forerunner fought back and eliminated most of them. Then, probably after seeing how humans and forerunner alike were endlessly waging war, they made the flood, the only solution to have a single unified and peaceful galaxy.


I agree with you here. although i believe the primoridium is actually a precursor and not infected by the flood.
And no the Precursor was not the pinnacle of the flood creation but the pinacle of the flood was when all life is assimilated into one form.

Like the melting pot. While the Librarian tends to favour multiculturalism.

  • 01.09.2012 8:25 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: risay_117
The prisoner is not a gravemind but makes them and mainly used them to defeat the forerunners.


"How can you be the last of anything?" the Didact asked. "I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victems infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?"

That was said by Didact in the conluding parts of Primordium. Don't know how you could have missed that jewel. The Prisoner is a Gravemind. An old one, but one none-the-less.

Keep in mind, Graveminds aren't made, but assembled. They are a mass of calcium and Flood cells acquired from assimilated organisms. They are a stage of the Flood, much like pure forms or proto-graveminds, like the one that Captain Keyes was fused into in Halo: Combat Evolved.

  • 01.09.2012 8:25 AM PDT
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So the Flood is actually the Precursors?

  • 01.09.2012 8:30 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

Also not to seem off topic but, my best mate included, why the hell does everyone assume that the destruction of Installation 04-B destroyed Installation 00, the Ark was immense beyond belief even compared to one of the Halo weapons. Also Halo does nothing to non-organic matter, so it would have had no affect on the superstructure of Installation 00. Am I the only person who thinks the Ark survived and would be repaired by the army of constructs is possesses, don't forget those same constructs built the new Installation 04 from essentially raw material, repairing the Ark shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Even if the Ark was destroyed it would mean nothing. Page 375 specifically states that there are two Arks. The other Ark is probably still functional and capable of cranking out a Halo or two.


I thought they said there were more arks than one and many more halos. The other things was that installation 7 was supposed to be 30,000km wide but the one found is 10,000km wide.

Last but not least is there a chance that there are many more advanced species that were killed of by the precursors, and that they could still exist. Or many more species kept low due to forerunners and now side with the precursors.

These species may have no knowledge of the flood or are truly devoted to the primoridium and will fight for it.

  • 01.09.2012 8:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

There are only 2 Arks a lesser and a Greater. I hope we destroyed the Lesser but i know better.

Installation 7 ad to break off damaged parts reducing its size, hell some of those sections could have formed to make another ring if needed.

And don't worry prometheus25 your response actually takes thinking and time so i will do it soon.

  • 01.09.2012 8:35 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Alexthekid3000
So the Flood is actually the Precursors?


No, Didact goes on to say:

"Or are you after all only an imitation of a Precursor, a puppet-a reanimated corpse? Are all the Precursors gone-or is it that the Flood will make new Precursors?"

He's speculating on the Primordal/Precursor relationship, but confirms that it is, at least, a Gravemind. They don't necessarily know that this is what Precursors looked like, only assumed because they thought it was one at one time.

  • 01.09.2012 8:37 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: risay_117
The prisoner is not a gravemind but makes them and mainly used them to defeat the forerunners.


"How can you be the last of anything?" the Didact asked. "I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victems infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?"

That was said by Didact in the conluding parts of Primordium. Don't know how you could have missed that jewel. The Prisoner is a Gravemind. An old one, but one none-the-less.

Keep in mind, Graveminds aren't made, but assembled. They are a mass of calcium and Flood cells acquired from assimilated organisms. They are a stage of the Flood, much like pure forms or proto-graveminds, like the one that Captain Keyes was fused into in Halo: Combat Evolved.


If that is so then what is a precursor truly, is it reaching the level or a stage a biological being reaches, and the flood is the fastest way to it or is it a specie.

You see, if they were the flood then why did they not exist before. This means that becoming a precursor could mean reaching a certain level of advancement.

  • 01.09.2012 8:39 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: grey101
There are only 2 Arks a lesser and a Greater. I hope we destroyed the Lesser but i know better.


Correct on the two arks. I don't have the book in font of me, but wasn't it stated that only the larger one could create rings, and that the smaller one could only repair them? I think it was somewhere in the middle-ish of the book. Perhaps when Chakas is in the virtual village, just before he reunites with Riser? I'll have to look into this.


Installation 7 had to break off damaged parts reducing its size, hell some of those sections could have formed to make another ring if needed.

Not impossible, I suppose. Though I would think it highly improbable.

  • 01.09.2012 8:48 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: risay_117
If that is so then what is a precursor truly.


If I knew the answer to that question, I would have just said it outright.

I don't know. As far as my own subscription to what I believe is known in the Halo-verse, the Precursors are a mostly unknown civilization.

I believe they:
Created life in this galaxy, including the Forerunners, Humans, and Flood.
Tried to wipe out the Forerunners, but they resisted.
Are now either extinct or moved on to a new galaxy.

Perhaps the Flood was meant to wipe the galaxy clean so the Precursor could come back at some point. Who knows. But if the Forerunner Life Shapers could create species that evolved exactly how you wanted them to, then a more advanced species could probably create something that would assimilate all life, and then possibly be eradicated in a single button press.

But this is all speculation.

  • 01.09.2012 8:54 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: risay_117
If that is so then what is a precursor truly.


If I knew the answer to that question, I would have just said it outright.


What i mean is that is it truly a specie or is it actually a stage certain species have to pass. Maybe once certain species or certain members reach this level in biological advancement and unlock certain secrets to the universe you become a precursor. Like a club.

  • 01.09.2012 8:57 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: risay_117
If that is so then what is a precursor truly.


If I knew the answer to that question, I would have just said it outright.


What i mean is that is it truly a specie or is it actually a stage certain species have to pass. Maybe once certain species or certain members reach this level in biological advancement and unlock certain secrets to the universe you become a precursor. Like a club.


If I knew the answer to that question, I would have just said it outright.

Wait. Is there an echo in here?

  • 01.09.2012 9:00 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
There are only 2 Arks a lesser and a Greater. I hope we destroyed the Lesser but i know better.


Correct on the two arks. I don't have the book in font of me, but wasn't it stated that only the larger one could create rings, and that the smaller one could only repair them? I think it was somewhere in the middle-ish of the book. Perhaps when Chakas is in the virtual village, just before he reunites with Riser? I'll have to look into this.


Installation 7 had to break off damaged parts reducing its size, hell some of those sections could have formed to make another ring if needed.

Not impossible, I suppose. Though I would think it highly improbable.


Didact said both of them could make more halos at the end of the book but they wouldn't. Which is why i am saying the damaged portions could be repaired and re-purposed. I am only saying that to solidify the ring numbers since we don't have a count right now.

  • 01.09.2012 9:55 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
There are only 2 Arks a lesser and a Greater. I hope we destroyed the Lesser but i know better.


Correct on the two arks. I don't have the book in font of me, but wasn't it stated that only the larger one could create rings, and that the smaller one could only repair them? I think it was somewhere in the middle-ish of the book. Perhaps when Chakas is in the virtual village, just before he reunites with Riser? I'll have to look into this.


Installation 7 had to break off damaged parts reducing its size, hell some of those sections could have formed to make another ring if needed.

Not impossible, I suppose. Though I would think it highly improbable.


Didact said both of them could make more halos at the end of the book but they wouldn't. Which is why i am saying the damaged portions could be repaired and re-purposed. I am only saying that to solidify the ring numbers since we don't have a count right now.


I'm sure the diadect said that they were going to one of the less arks, if i am correct in my memory then that indiciated multiple lesser arks. And defniitly they could repair rings etc so that leads for some interesting and stupid aspects where the halo trilogy could go

  • 01.09.2012 2:13 PM PDT

I thought people were joking about the amount of uneventful walking that takes place. It really is kinda dragging. Cryptum started off slow, but it was still interesting. This one is only slightly so. I just want things to start moving.

  • 01.09.2012 2:37 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Urban GFX

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
There are only 2 Arks a lesser and a Greater. I hope we destroyed the Lesser but i know better.


Correct on the two arks. I don't have the book in font of me, but wasn't it stated that only the larger one could create rings, and that the smaller one could only repair them? I think it was somewhere in the middle-ish of the book. Perhaps when Chakas is in the virtual village, just before he reunites with Riser? I'll have to look into this.


Installation 7 had to break off damaged parts reducing its size, hell some of those sections could have formed to make another ring if needed.

Not impossible, I suppose. Though I would think it highly improbable.


Didact said both of them could make more halos at the end of the book but they wouldn't. Which is why i am saying the damaged portions could be repaired and re-purposed. I am only saying that to solidify the ring numbers since we don't have a count right now.


I'm sure the diadect said that they were going to one of the less arks, if i am correct in my memory then that indiciated multiple lesser arks. And defniitly they could repair rings etc so that leads for some interesting and stupid aspects where the halo trilogy could go


He clearly stated there were only two.

  • 01.09.2012 2:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Alexthekid3000
So the Flood is actually the Precursors?


No, Didact goes on to say:

"Or are you after all only an imitation of a Precursor, a puppet-a reanimated corpse? Are all the Precursors gone-or is it that the Flood will make new Precursors?"

He's speculating on the Primordal/Precursor relationship, but confirms that it is, at least, a Gravemind. They don't necessarily know that this is what Precursors looked like, only assumed because they thought it was one at one time.


Oh I see.

  • 01.09.2012 5:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: ferrrari
the precs are the flood (in a way)

DAMN


The precursor (or the being claiming to be the precursor) could be lying. It does put a new perspective on things.

[Edited on 01.09.2012 7:01 PM PST]

  • 01.09.2012 7:00 PM PDT

O hai


Posted by: Urban GFX
Read the last 10% of the book again. Most of the important info is in there.

It DEFINITLY is, basically everything that will be talked about in any of the forums will be from the last 10%


Quoted for relevance and truth

  • 01.09.2012 8:48 PM PDT

yas334229812

But remember more can be hidden in the middle of the story, but the obvious ones will be at the end.
Posted by: weird death guy

Posted by: Urban GFX
Read the last 10% of the book again. Most of the important info is in there.

It DEFINITLY is, basically everything that will be talked about in any of the forums will be from the last 10%


Quoted for relevance and truth

  • 01.09.2012 8:51 PM PDT

One thing that I wondered is, how did ONI find chakas or did chakas find them? That would be interesting to know once we find out, im guessing the next forerunner book will touch on what happens next but it will be interesting regardless

  • 01.09.2012 11:12 PM PDT