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Subject: Are Precursors the Flood? (Primordium Spoilers!)

Now at the end of Primordium, its revealed that the Timeless One/ Primordial/Captive is actually a Gravemind. Now does this mean that the Timeless One transfered his conscience into a Gravemind, or are Precursors the complete ultimate stage of the Flood? Comment please, thank you for clearing up

  • 01.05.2012 9:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Why do people ask questions (That are stupid) when they already know the answer?

  • 01.06.2012 5:12 AM PDT

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HANDS ON! i -blam!- CALLED IT THAT T/O WOULD BE GRAVEMIND! i FEEL SO LOVED RIGHT NAO <3

  • 01.06.2012 6:15 AM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind

Posted by: grey101
Why do people ask questions (That are stupid) when they already know the answer?


Well, wasn't that an impatient and rude response.

  • 01.06.2012 6:36 AM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
Why do people ask questions (That are stupid) when they already know the answer?

Somebody didn't wake up with enough milk in their cereal...

  • 01.06.2012 7:26 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: grey101
Why do people ask questions (That are stupid) when they already know the answer?

That time of the month again heh?

  • 01.06.2012 7:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Seriously though, I assume he read primordium in which the captive itself states "Precursor,flood, there is no difference".

So why would you make a thread asking if they are the same when it was stated and implied several times in the novel that they are? Common sense, buy some.

  • 01.06.2012 7:32 AM PDT

I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.

  • 01.06.2012 7:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.


The term "precursor" seems to apply to all those before humans and forerunners (as it should). The captive states that the ones that created the forerunners were hunted down though some escaped. He then states he is the last precursor of his form/kind.

So the precursors might have been a conglomerate of advance races acting together in a post-scarcity society. This would further the influence "The Culture" has on the haloverse.


*Edit.

I would also like to state that "The old ones" created the flood as they thought it was the "ultimate peace" and they joined it. which is where the "Precursors, flood, there is no difference" comes in. The Flood is the Mantle.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 8:13 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 8:11 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.


The term "precursor" seems to apply to all those before humans and forerunners (as it should). The captive states that the ones that created the forerunners were hunted down though some escaped. He then states he is the last precursor of his form/kind.



Well then. That's interesting. So instead of one race, we have a multitude of races, like the Covenant, though hopefully less zealous.

  • 01.06.2012 9:52 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.


The term "precursor" seems to apply to all those before humans and forerunners (as it should). The captive states that the ones that created the forerunners were hunted down though some escaped. He then states he is the last precursor of his form/kind.

So the precursors might have been a conglomerate of advance races acting together in a post-scarcity society. This would further the influence "The Culture" has on the haloverse.


*Edit.

I would also like to state that "The old ones" created the flood as they thought it was the "ultimate peace" and they joined it. which is where the "Precursors, flood, there is no difference" comes in. The Flood is the Mantle.

Like an ancient version of the covies???

  • 01.06.2012 4:14 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.


The term "precursor" seems to apply to all those before humans and forerunners (as it should). The captive states that the ones that created the forerunners were hunted down though some escaped. He then states he is the last precursor of his form/kind.



Well then. That's interesting. So instead of one race, we have a multitude of races, like the Covenant, though hopefully less zealous.


I don't know, the whole "o hai guys, let's all become alien zombies" thing is pretty up there with "o hai guys, let's kill ourselves".

  • 01.06.2012 4:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I haven't read the book yet thanks to preordering from Barnes & Noble being an apparently bad idea, but from what I've heard the Precursors are a form(?) of the Flood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Precursors are advanced Graveminds.


The term "precursor" seems to apply to all those before humans and forerunners (as it should). The captive states that the ones that created the forerunners were hunted down though some escaped. He then states he is the last precursor of his form/kind.



Well then. That's interesting. So instead of one race, we have a multitude of races, like the Covenant, though hopefully less zealous.


That how i made sense of it because the TO is trying to make a distinction between itself and the "precursors". The TO is a precursor but not of the ones that created the forerunners.

  • 01.06.2012 8:00 PM PDT
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"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

Just as Grey said, it is essentially stated that this (Precursors = Flood in some way) is true.

  • 01.06.2012 11:41 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I still don't trust the slimey critter.

The Flood has a history of trying to get people to join it willingly, and "Precursors, flood, there is no difference" being said to the Forerunners doesn't sound too far away from "Do not be afraid, I am peace, I am salvation." and other lies it likes to tell.

It may even believe it's own hype, but it is demonstrably *not* peaceful, it takes it's victims (and their memories) by force. Keyes' mind is explicitly torn apart and his personality erased for example.
And for all the Gravemind claims it is "an eternal chorus" and that the minds of all those that have 'joined' are just fine and happy in the Flood hivemind, we don't see any evidence that it's true.

Not a jot.

The Gravemind is the only presence/personality we ever see.
And it's a lying, manipulative thing.

[Edited on 01.07.2012 8:06 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 8:05 AM PDT

Let's be frank, we know less than we did before after reading primordium.

We learnt a couple of new things like origins of 343 and how geas are spread through all of modern humanity.

But on the other hand we learnt nothing about the precursors who built charum hakkor... We just got some vague mumblings from the captive which may become clearer after the next intsallment, but until then is pretty much useless informationn from an unrelianble source.

And also it's pretty confusing and seemingly contradictory how Didact wanted to keep this Halo and also how Mendicant Bias was seemingly defeated long before he fought Offensive Bias.

The whle book pissed me off actually. It elaborated on very little of the previous book and for the most part involved the characters taking a hike through the jungle. Like seriously all this could have been simply condensed into the first 3 chapters of the next book, since it's only purpose has been to set up the final part of the story. This was like a non-story for the most part.

  • 01.07.2012 11:23 AM PDT

What if the Flood are just the pinnacle of evolution?

Precursors are the only race that could come close to being godlike (Omnipotent?). The last stage of all would be the Flood, wich they could have achieved. What if they're just accelerating evolution by absorbing other races?

  • 01.07.2012 1:21 PM PDT

My theory:

The Flood are just that... The Flood. They are either product of evolution or a biological weapon gone wild. But there is no such thing as the pinnacle of evolution, and even of there was, so what? There's no reason to suppose that it is moral or right in any way, when it involves forcibly infecting other races.

Basically the Captive is a Gravemind that humanity captured during their war with the Flood. This turned out to be a mistake, because the Captive can psychologically undermine anyone, with lies and manipulation. He's like Satan.

First he undermined the humans by telling them that the Flood had not been defeated, just decided to retreat. And God knows what else he said.

Then he undermined the Forerunners by converting Mendicant Bias to his cause.

As for the actual Precursors, who knows. Maybe the were just the fascist Forerunners taken to the extreme: while the Forerunners only wiped out races who waged aggressive wars (or more cynically, who threatened Forerunner dominance), the Precursors may actually have wiped out every race they discovered/created who failed to live up to their standards. Maybe the Flood was just one of their 'tests.'

Maybe the Precursors were a race who created other races, and then they created the Forerunners who for whatever reason turned against them. But some of them escaped and continued to 'create.' One such creation was the Flood. Maybe the captive was a gravemind formed by a bunch of escapee precursors who had locked themselves into stasis.

To be honest i don't think you can draw any firm conclusions given the info given in Primordium. I really hope that it was supposed to be confusing and that the final book will clear everything up. Cause otherwise it seems like the author had no intentions of revealing the story of the precursors, he just churned out some vague ideas to maintain the mystery.

  • 01.07.2012 2:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Honestly, the fact that the Timeless One got disinterergrated leaves me with two important questions:

1. What is the Ancient Evil in Halo 4?

2. What the HELL was the prisoner in the Solitary map? TO dying leaves him out.

  • 01.07.2012 2:35 PM PDT

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Posted by: Traxus 04

And also it's pretty confusing and seemingly contradictory how Didact wanted to keep this Halo and also how Mendicant Bias was seemingly defeated long before he fought Offensive Bias.


interesting thoughts, but this particular line I think I can clear up. It was said that all those monitors with green eyes were splintered-off cores of MB. Just like that one time there were a hundred cortanas, the original MB put part of himself on installation 07 with the captive, and/or was commanding a bunch of the monitors. But MB wasn't defeated by Didact in the book as you thought. In fact I think this is the reason Didact built Offensive Bias, from the very experience we read in Primordium. He knew MB switched sides and created something new with his new knowledge

  • 01.07.2012 4:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Traxus 04
Let's be frank, we know less than we did before after reading primordium.

We learnt a couple of new things like origins of 343 and how geas are spread through all of modern humanity.

But on the other hand we learnt nothing about the precursors who built charum hakkor... We just got some vague mumblings from the captive which may become clearer after the next intsallment, but until then is pretty much useless informationn from an unrelianble source.

And also it's pretty confusing and seemingly contradictory how Didact wanted to keep this Halo and also how Mendicant Bias was seemingly defeated long before he fought Offensive Bias.

The whle book pissed me off actually. It elaborated on very little of the previous book and for the most part involved the characters taking a hike through the jungle. Like seriously all this could have been simply condensed into the first 3 chapters of the next book, since it's only purpose has been to set up the final part of the story. This was like a non-story for the most part.



Nothing the primordial said in this novel counts as an "unreliable source" and the information is far far from useless.


It is only "contradictory" if you are narrow minded. The halos are more than weapons they have life from hundreds of worlds on them (which the didact brought up as he was saving it) not to mention they can be useful.

Yes the didact didn't want them to be built, but it would be foolish not to recognize the power and support they can give. It would only be a contradiction if he was creating more halos, which we know he is adamant about not doing.

Medicant bias didn't go full rampant in primordium if you didn't noticed. He didn't hate the forerunners but thought they were mucking up the natural order of things with arrogance. He will be fixed and re-purposed,then sent to talk with a gravemind that was recently created.
If you payed attention you will noticed that nothing was ever stated about the minds being destroyed when didact arrived and i think chakas worried about them after he was save; stating they might still be active on the ring.

I agree with your last statements, i really dislike half the book being about them walking around halo.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 12:27 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 12:22 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Honestly, the fact that the Timeless One got disinterergrated leaves me with two important questions:

1. What is the Ancient Evil in Halo 4?

2. What the HELL was the prisoner in the Solitary map? TO dying leaves him out.


The Timeless One can still be the Ancient Evil. Gravemind refuses to die so I don't think it's likely the TO is still alive.

[Edited on 01.08.2012 12:25 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2012 12:25 PM PDT

OK so according tho chakas the precursors are the ''original ones'' who had the ability tho create and destroy life at will. when the forerunners found out they were going to be destroyed they destroyed the precursors first. where im going with this is that there are many ways the flood plays into this like one way. the precursors had to have a way to destroy life and as we may already know the flood has a habit of doing that. another theory i have came up with is that the precursors used the flood as a first form for creating all of the life forms they have created. the proof for that theory comes from when chakas is telling about how the precursors were the '' original ones'' Chakas say something like '' we were all a bunch of ''worms''-possibly grave minds- and grew legs. but if you want to know any more of my theory's just message me.

  • 01.22.2012 5:22 PM PDT

Maybe the flood are like the chimeras. They can infect others and turn them into flood, but there are also pure floodians who are their own species.

  • 01.22.2012 5:35 PM PDT

-Dead Orbit..


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Honestly, the fact that the Timeless One got disinterergrated leaves me with two important questions:

1. What is the Ancient Evil in Halo 4?

2. What the HELL was the prisoner in the Solitary map? TO dying leaves him out.


there was a prisoner in the map: solitary?

  • 01.22.2012 6:41 PM PDT

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