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Subject: Space Marines VS Spartans

Am I the only one who thinks Dr. Halsey is a b****?????

Who would win in a hand to hand fight and a full on fire fight?? Im sure many of you have noticed the similarites between Warhammer 40,000k Space Marines and Halo's Spartans It has become a heated debate on who's the superior warrior. The similarites between the two are many but the difference are as well. Bouth are trained from a very young age to be the elite soldiers for humanity aginst alien races, bouth wear exclusive armor that is connected to their brain for lightning fast reflexes and bouth weigh atleast a ton when fully armored. Bouth use advanced weapons that mainly are projectile based although Space Marines have a few plasma based weapons. Differences in the two are few but crucial. Space Marines live in the 41st melinium while spartans live and fight in the 25th, Space Marines are at war with at least five alien races and many tratior leigons of chaos Space Marines at once across hundreds of worlds, while Spartans are at war with the Covenant on many different worlds. Space Marienes fight for an emperor of humantity while Spartans fight for the UNSC.
While all of these things are important for learning about who these warriors are it has no real meaning on a battle field. The traits that truly matter are much more physical, such as, many will comment that Space Marines a larger than and would crush a Spartan. And others will reply that Spartans are much faster and can easily out pace big slow Space Marines. What you need to think more about is who is the better tatican, who is best at hand to hand fighting, who can endure the most punishment, things of that nature. This is not a popularity contest and i realize that posting this on a bungie forum seems rather stupid. So i ask that you focus more on the soldiers themselves rather the games they have appered in. My love of the halo universe is always at war with my love of the Warhammer 40,000k universe but I feel it is only fair that i keep my opinion to myself, but i will tell you that there is a 50$ wager on the line depending on your posts, so please think hard and fairly and if I have left out or missed anything or you have a correction feel free to post it.


DETAILS:
To make it a little easier ill narrow it down to a Regular Tatical Space Marine (of no particular chapter with no rosarious) equiped with a standard bolter, Against a Spartan 2 (with energy shielding) equiped with an assualt rifle. For the hand to hand compairson, ill say the all the same as above as far as the armor, except the spartan is equipped a plasma sword and the space marine has a chainsword.... Fair enough???

[Edited on 01.17.2012 3:10 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 3:15 PM PDT

Swag punks, fu­­ck off!

Whoa! Praghraph. OT: Taking all of the above into consiteration I think the spartans would win. Due to the fact that they are geneticly enhanced super soldiers.

  • 01.06.2012 3:17 PM PDT

Again this?
SM, punches of spartan won't do much damage.
If it would be like hide and seek type of fight, then Spartan.
And there are few incorrect things.
1.SM isn't trained from age of 5-8 like spartans.
2.There is far more than just 1 traitor SM legion.
3.Only that SM is bulky doesn't mean that it is slow and clumsy-SM are rather fast and agile at their level.

And you forgot to mention what are the fighters.

Like veteran SM would have more experience than spartan and would be better strategist.
A CQC spartan specialist would own half of SM kinds.
But Veteran CQC SP would beat veteran CQC spartan.

  • 01.06.2012 3:23 PM PDT


Posted by: UndeadJon
Whoa! Praghraph. OT: Taking all of the above into consiteration I think the spartans would win. Due to the fact that they are geneticly enhanced super soldiers.

Are you mad?
Space marine is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more geneticly enchanted!
Read this gene-seed
-----Space marine


And SM have alot more harder training that spartans, due to fact that they start their training without enchanted body, and their training is longer than spartans(i cant rememmber when gene-seed was implanted into SM, i think half-way thru their training).

[Edited on 01.06.2012 3:30 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 3:27 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I would say it would greatly depend on the individuals involved.

In general though:

Most of the Spartan's projectile weapons will be combat ineffective against the Marine's heavy armour, while anti-material rounds and heavy weapons will still be effective this gives the Space Marine a significant advantage equipment wise.

The Spartan's main equipment advantage is his shield system, allowing him to take a few hits "for free" assuming he can get time to let it recharge. Any hits the S.M. takes to his armour will stay, potentially meaning a prolonged engagement, or a long range engagement (where cover is more easily available) would favour the Spartan.

On the other hand entirely, a Hunter (Lekgolo) is considerably physically superior to an average Space Marine, and Spartans can take them down (albeit with difficulty).
So this isn't actually that one-sided.

If the Space Marine gets up close though I think the Spartan's chances go way down.

  • 01.06.2012 6:26 PM PDT


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: UndeadJon
Whoa! Praghraph. OT: Taking all of the above into consiteration I think the spartans would win. Due to the fact that they are geneticly enhanced super soldiers.

Are you mad?
Space marine is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more geneticly enchanted!
Read this gene-seed
-----Space marine


And SM have alot more harder training that spartans, due to fact that they start their training without enchanted body, and their training is longer than spartans(i cant rememmber when gene-seed was implanted into SM, i think half-way thru their training).



I'm not gonna debate with you on the SM stuff, because frankly, I've never played warhammer, and I don't plan on it, but the Halo portion, I'm going to correct you on.

Spartans also start without their augmentations, and their enhancements were given when they were 14? I believe. Also, I find it hard to believe you could get more enhanced when spartans have nearly unbreakable bones, but then again, idk what space marines are like.

  • 01.06.2012 6:26 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

Space Marines have 19 extra organs, and supposedly, their bone ossification process also fuses their ribs into a solid bullet-resistant plate.

To be fair, I think that if we give Spartans shields, then we should give Space Marines conversion fields or rosarius(s)

Space Marines fire rockets out of their most basic semi-automatic pistol. A Spartan would probably need a gauss cannon or a spartan laser to penetrate Space Marine armor (I doubt a Halo rocket launcher would, because that's basically what Space Marines fire at each other, and they can survive multiple hits from their own weapons)

[Edited on 01.06.2012 6:32 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 6:32 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Fin
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: rst7503
Space Marines have 19 extra organs, and supposedly, their bone ossification process also fuses their ribs into a solid bullet-resistant plate.


Indeed, and how they don't suffocate is a mystery for the ages!

To be fair, I think that if we give Spartans shields, then we should give Space Marines conversion fields or rosarius(s)

Spartan shield systems are ubiquitous equipment, every Spartan has them, similar protection for Space Marines is much rarer, so I don't see why we should assume it.

Space Marines fire rockets out of their most basic semi-automatic pistol. A Spartan would probably need a gauss cannon or a spartan laser to penetrate Space Marine armor (I doubt a Halo rocket launcher would, because that's basically what Space Marines fire at each other, and they can survive multiple hits from their own weapons)

Bolt pistols do not fire 120mm Anti-Tank warheads, come on now...

  • 01.06.2012 6:44 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

Actually, why shouldn't we give Rosarius(s)? There are many more space marines then Spartans, and contrary to what you say, shield generators are not ubiquitous among Spartans. If they were, then all of the Spartans on Onyx would have been equipped with shield generators. Not even the Spartan IIs accompanying the Spirit of Fire had shield generators. You have to admit, the Spartans that can be afforded a shield generator are pretty much the best of the best. As such, we should compare the best of the best in both groups with the best equipment available to each. Let's say there were 250 Spartan IIs and IIIs all equipped with shield generators, there is at least an equal number of space marine chaplains, all equipped with rosarius(s), because it's part of their standard equipment.

You're right on the bolt pistols...though a bolt pistol can shoot out a whole clip on mini RPGs. A rocket launcher can only shoot out two shots in rapid succession. The Spartan would need the element of surprise in order to get those rocket shots off on the Space Marine without being killed first.

  • 01.06.2012 6:56 PM PDT


Posted by: zak2014

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: UndeadJon
Whoa! Praghraph. OT: Taking all of the above into consiteration I think the spartans would win. Due to the fact that they are geneticly enhanced super soldiers.

Are you mad?
Space marine is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more geneticly enchanted!
Read this gene-seed
-----Space marine


And SM have alot more harder training that spartans, due to fact that they start their training without enchanted body, and their training is longer than spartans(i cant rememmber when gene-seed was implanted into SM, i think half-way thru their training).



I'm not gonna debate with you on the SM stuff, because frankly, I've never played warhammer, and I don't plan on it, but the Halo portion, I'm going to correct you on.

Spartans also start without their augmentations, and their enhancements were given when they were 14? I believe. Also, I find it hard to believe you could get more enhanced when spartans have nearly unbreakable bones, but then again, idk what space marines are like.

Read the link about gene-seed

  • 01.06.2012 7:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Fin5434p
Bolt pistols do not fire 120mm Anti-Tank warheads, come on now...

This made me lol, but i think that actualy there is such a pistol.

  • 01.06.2012 7:06 PM PDT

I wrote a lengthy post outlining the pros and cons of both sides, but because the computer's being retarded, I somehow ended up on Google without actually even clicking Google.

Basically, I said that in a fist fight, the Space Marines win hands down, most likely the same as if it were a large battle. But I wrote that, when it comes to pretty much every other type of warfare, the Spartans have the advantage in training diversity. SM are pros at the whole large battle thing. I'd take a SM over a Spartan any day to besiege a fortress. But if I want a quick, silent and brutal kill, or want an army to disappear without a trace, the Spartans have it.

I've said this a thousand times, but SM just don't hold a candle to stealthy enemies, which is part of the Spartan training, to be a stealthy operative. It's just that from what I've seen, the SM are no where near the invincible gods of war the fans crack them up to be, not when they fall by the dozens in every battle. They WIN said battles, but at high costs.

So things like this: I doubt a Halo rocket launcher would, because that's basically what Space Marines fire at each other, and they can survive multiple hits from their own weapons are utter BS. Bolts are not 102mm rounds, they are overly large explosive bullets, and even at that point, a single round fired from a deamon-possessed Space Marine from the novel Horus Rising killed two fully armored Space Marines in one shot each to the chest from a standard Bolter, and critically wounded a third.

So if you're asking whose a better warrior, relative to their universe, the Spartans are much more effective. But who'd win in a fight? Impossible to tell without knowing the circumstances. Lasguns, standard issue Imperial Guard rifles, can penetrate a SM's armor if fired at the weaker joints, according to the Lexicanum. Lasguns are about as powerful as your standard plasma rifle.

Spartan lasers one shot tanks; try doing that with a Lasgun.

So suffice it to say, a Splaser, M99 Stanchion or rocket launcher would obliterate a SM, or a well aimed sniper round to the joint would wound him.


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Fin5434p
Bolt pistols do not fire 120mm Anti-Tank warheads, come on now...

This made me lol, but i think that actualy there is such a pistol.


This would make the standard factory made Lemun Russ battle tank pointless. Don't they fire 120mm sabot shells? Having a pistol that could do that would contradict the need for tanks.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 7:09 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 7:07 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

You're probably right about the bolter shot, but we have tons of inconsistencies about the effectiveness of a bolter shot on power armor. For example, Uriel Ventris gets shot up by Iron Warriors at Hydra Cordatus a couple of times in the torso area, and he survives those shots.

I tend to think a lasgun is superior to a plasma rifle, because it's been said that a lasgun can cleave through a human limb clean in one shot. From my understanding, Halo plasma works more on the burning effect of an insignificantly massed high-energy particle. We don't see any UNSC soldiers getting their arm blown off from plasma fire. Plenty of times from needlers and brute weapons, but never plasma fire.

If that Space Marine were had a rosarius (which is fair game when we treat Spartans having energy shields as standard), none of those weapons would probably work in the one-shot manner that you describe.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 7:15 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 7:14 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh


This would make the standard factory made Lemun Russ battle tank pointless. Don't they fire 120mm sabot shells? Having a pistol that could do that would contradict the need for tanks.


Well, yeah you are right, but i think if necrons would have a nercon pistol, it would be able to destroy any Tank because
comon

  • 01.06.2012 7:15 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

I think Necron weaponry destroy based on how dense the armor is. Supposedly it works on a principle that strings molecules from a target, so if the armor is dense and has more molecules in the affected area, I presume it would take longer for the weapon shot to pierce the armor. Of course, a guy with a gauss pistol, despite the nonexistence of one in the standard armor, could always just try to fire at a tank all day. Eventually, he'd pierce the armor.

  • 01.06.2012 7:19 PM PDT


Posted by: rst7503
You're probably right about the bolter shot, but we have tons of inconsistencies about the effectiveness of a bolter shot on power armor. For example, Uriel Ventris gets shot up by Iron Warriors at Hydra Cordatus a couple of times in the torso area, and he survives those shots.

I tend to think a lasgun is superior to a plasma rifle, because it's been said that a lasgun can cleave through a human limb clean in one shot. From my understanding, Halo plasma works more on the burning effect of an insignificantly massed high-energy particle. We don't see any UNSC soldiers getting their arm blown off from plasma fire. Plenty of times from needlers and brute weapons, but never plasma fire.

If that Space Marine were had a rosarius (which is fair game when we treat Spartans having energy shields as standard), none of those weapons would probably work in the one-shot manner that you describe.


It was the taking human arms off that originally got me to draw the connection between the PR and LG. I don't think we've seen to many human actually get shot by plasma weapons outside the games, but their effectiveness on MJOLNIR armor, how they effortlessly boil/blow it away, suggests that what they'd do to human flesh would be not too dissimilar from a Lasgun.

Needles on the other hand we know the effectiveness of, in gritty detail.

  • 01.06.2012 7:19 PM PDT


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: ROBERTO jh


This would make the standard factory made Lemun Russ battle tank pointless. Don't they fire 120mm sabot shells? Having a pistol that could do that would contradict the need for tanks.


Well, yeah you are right, but i think if necrons would have a nercon pistol, it would be able to destroy any Tank because
comon


Oh Necrons yeah, I was talking about Imperial weapons. Necrons are just discustingly overpowered (as is, indeed, most of 40K)

  • 01.06.2012 7:20 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

to tell the truth, I think the description of a lasgun and a halo plasma weapon are odd. To me, a laser weapon should fire massless photons and do burn damage (and possibly vaporize a body part), as the Halo plasma weapons are said to do. On the other hand, plasma, being energized and massed particles with momentum should do the whole blowing of the hand part as the Imperium's lasguns are said to do. I heard that the Halo plasma isn't really plasma as we know it according to the Bungie people, but I don't know much about that claim.

  • 01.06.2012 7:25 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

I think a better comparison would be between an Spartan without Mjolnir armor against a Black Templars Space Marine Scout whose only missing implant is the Black Carapace.

  • 01.06.2012 7:30 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

@Roberto

Marines are trained for most forms of combat, they just don't use all of them. If someone wanted stealth they would contact one of the Assassin temples, not callin a squad of Battle-Brothers. Scouts are adept at recon and stealth for example, but they only make up a small portion of the chapter. Marines prefer open combat but do not hesitate to switch to a different form if necessary.

Another thing to point out is the fact that in the HH armor was objectively inferior. At the time most marines (including those who you mentioned) were wearing Mark III armor. In contemporary 40k Mark VII is the order of the day with some marines getting the newer Mark IIX armor. There have been big changes through the ages and armor has advanced. Marines now have survived getting cathedrals dropped on them, for example.

  • 01.06.2012 10:10 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999
Marines now have survived getting cathedrals dropped on them, for example.



*Shakes Head*

  • 01.06.2012 10:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Fin
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: Xd00999
Marines now have survived getting cathedrals dropped on them, for example.


So have I, granted, it was a small souvenir model of Mont Saint-Michel...

  • 01.06.2012 11:02 PM PDT
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"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

Just because this is Bungie home turf, Spartans. Spartans would melt the Space Marines with hyper-powerful lasers shooting from their eyes. There shall be no shaming of the spartans on these here forums!

OT: Seriously now, I have no clue. Never played the Warhammer 40k games, except for the demo for the most recent game.

  • 01.06.2012 11:26 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR



Posted by: Xd00999
Marines now have survived getting cathedrals dropped on them, for example.



Really? I heard that it was a terminator marine surviving getting stepped on by a reaver battle titan. Same thing, I guess. lol

  • 01.06.2012 11:53 PM PDT

Am I the only one who thinks Dr. Halsey is a b****?????

Are you talking about Grimaldus getting the cathedral dropped on em?

  • 01.09.2012 1:17 PM PDT

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