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Subject: Did anybody else notice ths?
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Halo: Glasslands pg 158

Debris rained on them, rattling off his armor. Some of the Kig-Yar threw themsleves flat. Sniper Jackal tottered sideways, thrown off balance by the blast, and Mal put two shots through him. The next thing Mal heard was the whhfft-whhfft-whhfft of needle rifles discharging and something striking off his helmet.


Then further down the page:

Mal liked a woman with a positive outlook on life. Vaz moved from body to body, collecting weapons. He looked up at Mal and frowned, tapping hs helmet.
"Dent," he said, "Needle must have hit you"


So, how did a Needle rifle fire all the way THROUGH Kat's MJOLNIR Mark V helmet and her skull that has metal grafted to it, if the same rifle only causes a dent in the ODST's inferior helmet?

[Edited on 01.06.2012 7:50 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 7:49 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.

It probably just hit it with a glancing blow, which is different then direct impact. Note how the needle is not embedded in Mal's helmet.

Don't they have the improved RECON armor as well by that point? That is helluva lot better than normal ODST gear.

  • 01.06.2012 7:54 PM PDT

1 P17Y 7H3 F00L

KOTOR

maybe it was a needler needle? Those needles do seem to be out at a somewhat lower muzzle (if needlers have those) velocity

  • 01.06.2012 7:54 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Damn, thread saved. This is a mistake either way since 343 clearly didn't "proof read it" like they said they did.

  • 01.06.2012 7:55 PM PDT
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If it goes CLEAN THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V helmet + Ceramic grafted skull, then it would not simply deflect off of a helmet much less durable. Hell, the recon varient sacrfices some armoring for a sleeker design.

Needle weapons have never shown to be AP weapons. Needler weapons are designed to IMPACT soft targets then explode. If the needle rifle went THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V, then it would go clean through the soft targets the designed for, rather thant stcking in and explodng.

  • 01.06.2012 8:00 PM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

It's not really that big of a deal, nor is it canon breaking or anything... And it was suggested above that it was a glancing blow. Our helmets today can't take a direct impact from a heavier round, but a glancing blow they can handle. I'd imagine that the same would hold true in the Halo Universe. Even AP rounds can't penetrate if they don't hit at the right angle.
Posted by: grey101
Damn, thread saved. This is a mistake either way since 343 clearly didn't "proof read it" like they said they did.

  • 01.06.2012 8:00 PM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

Not true. Upon impact with the armor and tissue, the shard would be be slowed considerably.
Posted by: superiorarsenal
If the needle rifle went THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V, then it would go clean through the soft targets the designed for, rather thant stcking in and explodng.

  • 01.06.2012 8:03 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
If it goes CLEAN THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V helmet + Ceramic grafted skull, then it would not simply deflect off of a helmet much less durable. Hell, the recon varient sacrfices some armoring for a sleeker design.

Needle weapons have never shown to be AP weapons. Needler weapons are designed to IMPACT soft targets then explode. If the needle rifle went THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V, then it would go clean through the soft targets the designed for, rather thant stcking in and explodng.

Again, the difference is that with Kat, the Needle hit flush in the center of her head, she was hosed.

It is entirely possible, however, and implied, in my reading, that the round simply came in at an opportune angle to simply deflect to the side. That's what the helmets are built for, and that's what it did.

  • 01.06.2012 8:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: thebobafettest

Posted by: superiorarsenal
If it goes CLEAN THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V helmet + Ceramic grafted skull, then it would not simply deflect off of a helmet much less durable. Hell, the recon varient sacrfices some armoring for a sleeker design.

Needle weapons have never shown to be AP weapons. Needler weapons are designed to IMPACT soft targets then explode. If the needle rifle went THROUGH MJOLNIR Mark V, then it would go clean through the soft targets the designed for, rather thant stcking in and explodng.

Again, the difference is that with Kat, the Needle hit flush in the center of her head, she was hosed.

It is entirely possible, however, and implied, in my reading, that the round simply came in at an opportune angle to simply deflect to the side. That's what the helmets are built for, and that's what it did.


The problem is though that if a Needle rifle round will go through MJOLNIR and through Kat's head, then it will not impact and explode like its intended purpose. It would simply pass through the soft-targets its designed for.

  • 01.06.2012 8:07 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
The problem is though that if a Needle rifle round will go through MJOLNIR and through Kat's head, then it will not impact and explode like its intended purpose. It would simply pass through the soft-targets its designed for.

An ODST helmet, or more specifically, the RECON variant, is not a 'soft' target, the needles are effective against exposed or light armor(which is more akin to the standard Marine/Army helmet then the better protected ODST helmet, and while not as good as MJOLNIR, is still very good at protecting operators), as then they can penetrate and embed themselves in the body of the target.

If the round doesn't penetrate, like if it is deflected at an oblique angle, again, like helmets are designed to do, then it isn't going to kill the target.

Another example of this is boot up Reach. Grab a needle rifle, and fire it at the ground about 50 feet or so ahead of you. The rounds richochet, right? That is similar to the effect the rounds had on Mal's helmet, presumably.



[Edited on 01.06.2012 8:23 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 8:19 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Needle Rifle rounds arent guided, unlike the Needler rounds. Needler rounds either hit dead on or miss. Which means Needle Rifle rounds can have close misses or can hit on funny angles.

Needler Rifle rounds, if shot at an oblique enough angle, can perfectly ricochet from a hard surface such as an ODST helmet. The difference between this and Kat's death was that Kat was hit directly from the top of her head all the way through to her visor, a clean shot. Had it been shot in the same fashion as Mal, no doubt it would have ricocheted off her helmet and Kat would have survived with virtually no damage.

  • 01.06.2012 8:59 PM PDT

Ricochet.

Same reason that guy from Saving Private Ryan ended up only with a dent in his helmet even when a MG-42 machine gun shot him: it glanced off.

He then promptly got drilled through the skull, but that's beside the point.

inb4unabashedGlasslandshaters

  • 01.06.2012 9:06 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Ricochet.

Same reason that guy from Saving Private Ryan ended up only with a dent in his helmet even when a MG-42 machine gun shot him: it glanced off.

He then promptly got drilled through the skull, but that's beside the point.

inb4unabashedGlasslandshaters


*Round ricochets*

''You lucky bastard.''

That was actually a great example, Rob.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 9:09 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 9:09 PM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Ricochet.

Same reason that guy from Saving Private Ryan ended up only with a dent in his helmet even when a MG-42 machine gun shot him: it glanced off.

He then promptly got drilled through the skull, but that's beside the point.

inb4unabashedGlasslandshaters


*Round ricochets*

''You lucky bastard.''

That was actually a great example, Rob.


Always found that scene to be unfortunately funny. It's sort of as if, as I'm laughing at the irony of his death, all the while I'm thinking "I am so going to Hell for this..."

Thanks, though; it makes sense too when you consider the technological difference. WWII helmets, WWII weapons.

Futuristic space helmets, futuristic space weapons.

[Edited on 01.06.2012 9:12 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2012 9:11 PM PDT

Why are you here?

Wait, are the Needles coming from a Needle Rifle? or a plain old Needler?


Either way, it was probably a glancing blow.

  • 01.06.2012 10:32 PM PDT
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"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

As I have never read the books (and I would assume the first excerpt is from a book / comic) I don't have much background into the weaponry at its power level (although I would also assume it to be somewhere over 9000?) so I can't say either way what should have happened, but very nice job spotting this. I always thought that Kat's death was a sort of last minute "oh s**t, how do we plan on killing THIS character off?" sort of decision.

  • 01.06.2012 11:22 PM PDT

Silent are your lips, silenced are your thoughts, silence where you stood.

What you fail to realize is Kat was not shot with a needle rifle, she was shot with a needle cannon... big difference there.

  • 01.07.2012 12:16 AM PDT

hi


Posted by: OpTic OhioGam3r
I always thought that Kat's death was a sort of last minute "oh s**t, how do we plan on killing THIS character off?" sort of decision.
so were all the others. jorge just blew himself up because the timer just happed to break, carters was just retarded, 6 and emile could of just ran past it like they just did, and emile died tea-bagging. sixs death was the only good death scene.

[Edited on 01.07.2012 1:09 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 1:09 AM PDT

~Thomsn0w


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Ricochet.

Same reason that guy from Saving Private Ryan ended up only with a dent in his helmet even when a MG-42 machine gun shot him: it glanced off.

He then promptly got drilled through the skull, but that's beside the point.

inb4unabashedGlasslandshaters

  • 01.07.2012 2:17 AM PDT
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I still, to this day, don't understand why they didn't just use a god damn beam rifle. Would have made so much more sense.

Hell, you know what? I'm going to pretend it was a beam rifle. You know why? Because I want to because it makes sense.

Sorted.

  • 01.07.2012 6:47 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Ricochet.

Same reason that guy from Saving Private Ryan ended up only with a dent in his helmet even when a MG-42 machine gun shot him: it glanced off.

He then promptly got drilled through the skull, but that's beside the point.

inb4unabashedGlasslandshaters


This. Or it was a piece of debris falling. Depending on what exploded and what the style of debris was, it's entirely plausible that a chunk of that hit Mal's helm and dented it that way.

  • 01.07.2012 9:04 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

There were Needle Rifles...In a book post-Halo 3? Gosh...

  • 01.07.2012 9:13 AM PDT
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Ok, because you completely ignore this problem EVERY time I post it I will separate is and make it as clear as possible:


If the Needle Rifle shoots CLEAN THROUGH the MJOLNR helmet and Kat's skull that has ceramic grafted to it, then it would simply pass straight through the soft-targets it's designed to IMPACT AND EXPLODE on.

I'm not talking about the ODST's helmet now. I'm talking about the unshielded and unarmored living targets that it is designed against.

  • 01.07.2012 3:51 PM PDT

Soffish for everyone!

Art and Halo = my life... pretty much.

is it completely impossible that the specific point at which Kat was hit in the back of the head gave in and she died in mid sentence.. I don't think we need to put too much thought into it.

  • 01.07.2012 3:58 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

1. Kat did not have her armour's shields activated.
2. By the looks of this video (skip to 2:58), she got shot under her helmet, in between the armour and through the titanium nanocomposite part of the amour.

We can assume that the neck area has to be thinner here to allow for flexibility, and the nanocomposite is just that: a composite, not pure titanium armour like the majority of the suit. Coupled with a lack of activated shields, is is possible.

[Edited on 01.07.2012 5:25 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2012 5:24 PM PDT

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