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Subject: Just a Question about Halo 2's campaign

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Before I start, I want to just say that I love Halo 2's campaign and think it's the best in the whole Halo lineage (although CE's campaign came pretty close to being my favorite).

Anyway, my question is why did people hate the switch between the Chief and Arbiter during the campaign? I thought it added a nice, unique twist to Halo 2, being able to play as the Covenant and such.

Sure, I would have preferred being able to fight humans at times, but nevertheless the Arbiter's campaign in Halo 2 is one of the reasons that makes Halo 2 my favorite.

Was it simply because players couldn't be the Chief for the whole campaign? Or were there other reasons as well?

[Edited on 01.10.2012 4:46 AM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 4:45 AM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.

Ive never seen these haters you speak off. Most people i come across loved the swap over

But if there are haters out there, then they probably couldnt tell good storytelling if it was shoved up their backside. The swap over is one of the things that makes the storytelling in this game the best in the series. The way how two side stories eventually link up at the end was spectacularly well done through gameplay.

Perhaps the level Quarantine Zone is responsible. There are many people out there who found this level to be very difficult, including myself. They probably got stuck on it and immediately decided that the entire Arbiter side of the campaign was crap and they just wanted to play as Chief prancing around the galaxy saving everyone.

  • 01.10.2012 5:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Mark V guy
Ive never seen these haters you speak off. Most people i come across loved the swap over

But if there are haters out there, then they probably couldnt tell good storytelling if it was shoved up their backside. The swap over is one of the things that makes the storytelling in this game the best in the series. The way how two side stories eventually link up at the end was spectacularly well done through gameplay.

Perhaps the level Quarantine Zone is responsible. There are many people out there who found this level to be very difficult, including myself. They probably got stuck on it and immediately decided that the entire Arbiter side of the campaign was crap and they just wanted to play as Chief prancing around the galaxy saving everyone.


Quarantine Zone was one of the easiest levels in the game on Legendary, I could name a few contenders that were far more difficult. Most of the hate came because people who loved playing as the Chief/Cortana duo in the original Halo didn't get to play as strictly the Chief. That, and I believe people preferred to fight the Elites than the Brutes as the Brutes were not interesting at all, easy kills. Finally, another reason I have seen brought up once or twice is the inability to fight the UNSC, although for what it's worth I didn't care for that.

I for one didn't initially enjoy the change, I hated the Oracle and enjoyed the Arbiter to some extent, but the plot that develops thanks to playing as the Arbiter and the later Arbiter levels were truly great, they tied in well with the Chief levels etc. Perhaps this issue was more than likely the reason the Chief was the only character in Halo 3 (SP)

  • 01.10.2012 7:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wilis_kid

That, and I believe people preferred to fight the Elites than the Brutes as the Brutes were not interesting at all, easy kills. Finally, another reason I have seen brought up once or twice is the inability to fight the UNSC, although for what it's worth I didn't care for that.
This.

Covie Loyalists - Basically, not fun to fight.
Brutes - Boring, damage sponges, unrefined lunge crippling assassination attempts on berserking Brutes
Jackals - Kinda damage spongy but mostly an easy but annoying enemy
Drones - Annoying unless dispatched from good cover or long range

The aforementioned enemies aren't as fun as Grunts or Elites. But didn't the Arbiter levels have Heretics?

Heretics - Not fun at all. They are hardly reminiscent of Elites and Grunts. Carbines and Needlers = extremely annoying.

Heretic Grunts only panic when caught in the blast of a fuel rod gun, but that's only head trauma and Heretic Elites berserking is meaningless since even if they do charge, their melee collision is at an odd angle or something. Then there's the glitches that are helpful on higher difficulties, but also annoying for things like AI collections: Elites ending up inside walls (not too bad), Elites leaning against upright supply cases or walls and dying.

And the Heretic boss on higher difficulties isn't that fun at all either.

Flood - They ruin any level but Oracle has to be the worst of all. I'm not going to talk about High Charity because 1. it's scary and dark 2. I think it's interesting despite having only enemies that I hate. But still, throw in Flood into the mix of Heretics or Covie Loyalists and all possibility of fun is sapped.

Sentinels - Other than Enforcers, the Sentinels did poorly and weren't interesting to fight. Sentinel Majors were neat though. I also liked the Needler Sentinel. I have yet to search for it.

That said, I only liked Arbiter missions for their AI. Elites vs. Elites is pretty exciting and giving ally Elites swords would have been the stuff of legend at the time of release. And let's not forget my Councilors army. That's unprecedented.

The only thing that would have made me happier is if Bungie didn't severely nerf allied Covenant. You can tell that they were worried that they would be giving the player a major advantage so they made them somewhat incompetent... giving them poor shielding (they did right with the Councilors on GJ though) and making them charge into battle recklessly. This is even more noticeable in Halo 3.

  • 01.10.2012 10:48 AM PDT
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I am one of the haters you refer to (raises hand), and really for the most part detest the Arby levels. One simple reason. I enjoy being the MC with Cortana in my head, not an 8' tall blue or red alien.

Sure it is a great storyline twist, and probably did alot in terms of making the games (CE versus H2) seem more different than similar. I can appreciate that aspect from the game makers point of view..."how do we keep this from being too much like CE".....but I still hate the Arby levels and play them only since they are necessary to get certain skulls, or to keep from making the MC levels seem stale from overplay.

  • 01.10.2012 12:21 PM PDT

First time I played QZ I hated it. In time it became tied as my most favorite level with Outskirts.

  • 01.10.2012 12:56 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

they might of hated the swap over from MC to arbiter maybe because of nostalgic memories for Halo: Combat Evolved

  • 01.10.2012 1:18 PM PDT

New Marathon? Thanks Bungie!

H2s campaign would be much better if Bungie finished it, some levels got cut from the end to release it earlier

  • 01.10.2012 3:17 PM PDT

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Posted by: DethBySword
H2s campaign would be much better if Bungie finished it, some levels got cut from the end to release it earlier


That's true, if they got at least a couple months more time, just imagine the end result...

  • 01.10.2012 3:19 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

i'm glad it ended with a cliffhanger, though alot of people hated it, they didn't realise it guaranteed them what they wanted: another instalment to one of the greatest franchises in the industry, at the time ofcourse
too bad Halo 3 turned out to be an ultimate disappointment IMO

[Edited on 01.10.2012 3:29 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 3:28 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: path1k
i'm glad it ended with a cliffhanger, though alot of people hated it, they didn't realise it guaranteed them what they wanted: another instalment to one of the greatest franchises in the industry, at the time ofcourse
too bad Halo 3 turned out to be an ultimate disappointment IMO


Path1k, am i eight in saying you dont like Halo 3 because its too linear?

If so, personally i think that making it slightky more linear wasnt a bad thing. At least it was packed with action and awesome battles you have to fit through to get along the path.

Heres how i see it

Halo CE: Very open enviroments, plenty of room to do basically whatever you want, huge levels. Action packed battles are rare, the ones you come across on AotCR are easy to just bypass with a scorpion.

Halo 2: more linear, but still enoug space to explore and develop strategies when needed. More battles and concentrations of enemies make it the perfct balance between linear and open

Halo 3: admittedly the most linear of the trilogy, although nigh concentrations of enemies along the path make for fun firefighs and battles. However, not enough rom to develop a variety of strategies, with the exception of some parts of The Storm

Halo 3: ODST: Mombasa Streets is giant, there is plenty of roomto do what you want. Sadly, strategies developed here cant really be put to much use since enemy patrols are farely infrequent in the huge city, The campaign missiona themselves, I'd say they're between Halo 2 and Halo 3 when it comes to being linear. More linear than Halo 2 but more space for strategies than Halo 3

Halo Reach: Halo Reach campaign is quite linear for the most part, however, the very frequent battles often leave enough room for strategies. In most kissions, you progress along the storyline in a linearpath, but a lot of the big standoffs a long the way are very open and leave plenty of room for fighting the battle your way

S thise are my views on 'linearaty' in the Halo series. any typos are down to this iPad

  • 01.10.2012 3:51 PM PDT


Posted by: path1k
i'm glad it ended with a cliffhanger, though alot of people hated it, they didn't realise it guaranteed them what they wanted: another instalment to one of the greatest franchises in the industry, at the time ofcourse
too bad Halo 3 turned out to be an ultimate disappointment IMO

Halo 3 disappointed me too. They had an epic cliffhanger with lots of action and explosions in the background which gave a sense of desperation, then comes Halo 3 and we get Sierra 117...the rest of the campaign is similar. Not much in the way of exploring, borrowing heavily from Halo CE etc. Then there's the MP, the maps were forgettable and I can't stand the equipment...partly because I couldn't adapt to it very well, just felt cheap that if i'm winning and someone drops a bubble shield or an regeneration or vice versa...that's not right...

[Edited on 01.10.2012 4:07 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 4:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wilis_kid

Posted by: path1k
i'm glad it ended with a cliffhanger, though alot of people hated it, they didn't realise it guaranteed them what they wanted: another instalment to one of the greatest franchises in the industry, at the time ofcourse
too bad Halo 3 turned out to be an ultimate disappointment IMO

Halo 3 disappointed me too. They had an epic cliffhanger with lots of action and explosions in the background which gave a sense of desperation, then comes Halo 3 and we get Sierra 117...the rest of the campaign is similar. Not much in the way of exploring, borrowing heavily from Halo CE etc.
H3 had some qualities reminiscent of H1, but the only levels that were interesting were:

-Sierra 117
-The Storm
-The Covenant

The last level is overrated and too short. The boss battle is pathetic.

Cortana is a semi-pleasant adventure (compared to The Library, it wasn't terribly dull) filled with constant, annoying interruptions. Also, the enemies weren't interesting to fight. Damage sponge Pure Forms...

The Ark is boring: sniper rifle just gets everyone's attention (FAIL attempt at imitating T&R. Same thing with Nightfall), the Scorpion is a crappy vehicle (I'd much rather drive the AA Wraith or the Wraith), and the mini-boss fight at the end of the level is kinda mediocre. Also, the room right before the cartographer is excruciating: Jackals, Brute shot Brutes, hardly any cover.

Floodgate had some potential but 1. not enough allied support 2. allies suck against Flood 3. marines don't follow you further unless pushed. I don't want to babysit for them... 4. Flood are just uninteresting. I'd rather be surprised by half Flood then swarms of Infection Forms. I mean what a yawn fest. I've already seen that on 343 Guilty Spark in H1!!

I didn't really like how Tsavo Highway looked but I do know that it has some interesting encounters around rally point alpha and that you can get an army of marines.

Crow's Nest was very horrible. Infested with Brutes.

So here's why I liked Sierra 117, The Storm, and The Covenant:

-S117 - enemy variety
-S117 - Jackal sniper spawns on higher difficulties made for a new hearty playthrough. Very nutritious!!
-S117 - enemy encounters. Lots of Grunts!!!
-S117 - great dam battle (only ruined by the Pelican that does everything for you. Although it's awesome the first time, when I learn the level, I don't need it's support)
-Storm - kickass Scarab battle
-Storm - vehicular combat extraordinaire
-Storm - great encounters
-Storm - megabattle
-Covenant - so many reasons that it would take up the entire page, perhaps 2

[Edited on 01.10.2012 5:11 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 5:07 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

@Mark V Guy
the reason i consider Halo 3's campaign to be a disappointment wasn't because of how linear it was but because the whole thing seemed to have downgraded from Halo 2:

* i'm sure most of you where pleased (and maybe terrified) at though of engaging dual wielding elites the first time in Halo 2 but in Halo 3 none of them dual wield

* a missile pods round should travel faster than a rocket launcher round, it should also be stronger and have a bigger blast radius IMO

* i might be wrong but i found the covenant too defensive.

* limited use of the banshee was unsatisfying

* in Halo 2 more sentinel variants where encountered, in Halo 3 they only use the default one

* lack of new/main characters/boss fights. only boss we get to fight was guilty spark and her fight wasn't even fun!

* uninspiring cutscenes excluding this one or that one

* music wasn't so great excluding farthest outpost

* remaking the warthog run for the final level? c'mon BUNGiE! (i suppose they'll remake the final battle in Halo 4 with Tartarus' nephew)

alot of other reasons, not gonna list all but i was impressed with Halo 3: ODST.

@Wilis_kid
i liked Halo 3's multiplayer though, yes the maps weren't as good Halo 2 but they beat Reach any day

  • 01.10.2012 5:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: path1k
* i'm sure most of you where pleased (and maybe terrified) at though of engaging dual wielding elites the first time in Halo 2 but in Halo 3 none of them dual wield
I hate that they always spawn with plasma rifles. A waste of potential.

Posted by: path1k
* i might be wrong but i found the covenant too defensive.
Brutes are more like shock troops than commanding officers. They could never replace the Elites.

Hunters were very much improved but they were quite easy to defeat as anti-Hunter weapons were in abundance whenever they were encountered.

And Jackals are always defensive. Jackal snipers were balanced a lot but they still had that 1 shot kill.

The only Covies in H3 that showed aggression:

-Brute Chieftains
-War Chieftains
-berserking Brutes
-Grunts
-Drones

Posted by: path1k
* limited use of the banshee was unsatisfying
True.

Posted by: path1k
* remaking the warthog run for the final level? c'mon BUNGiE! (i suppose they'll remake the final battle in Halo 4 with Tartarus' nephew)
It was meant to be a tribute to The Maw (the Final Grunt a tribute to the Thirsty Grunt) but it was more of an insult (the entirety of Reach was even more insulting).

  • 01.10.2012 10:27 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

now that you mention it, drones where probably the most intimidating enemy apart from a war chieftain. i guess the flood are offensive but i didn't count them since they're easy to deal with (excluding those spiker turret ones in certain situations)

  • 01.11.2012 1:23 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: path1k
now that you mention it, drones where probably the most intimidating enemy apart from a war chieftain. i guess the flood are offensive but i didn't count them since they're easy to deal with (excluding those spiker turret ones in certain situations)


I am never intimidated by war chieftains, if i have a brute shot on me i can just beat them to death in four hits, i even do this to hammer chieftains sometimes. As for drones, i just spray at them with an AR. And i used to be scared of hunters, now i just destroy them with a brute shot

  • 01.12.2012 11:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mark V guy

Posted by: path1k
now that you mention it, drones where probably the most intimidating enemy apart from a war chieftain. i guess the flood are offensive but i didn't count them since they're easy to deal with (excluding those spiker turret ones in certain situations)


I am never intimidated by war chieftains, if i have a brute shot on me i can just beat them to death in four hits, i even do this to hammer chieftains sometimes. As for drones, i just spray at them with an AR. And i used to be scared of hunters, now i just destroy them with a brute shot
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker, brute shot, and spike grenade sticks. As those are quite abundant, it's really not a hard fight.

  • 01.12.2012 11:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf

  • 01.12.2012 12:01 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf


You've never beaten down a hunter with spiker blades?

  • 01.12.2012 12:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Mark V guy

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf


You've never beaten down a hunter with spiker blades?

When was the last time I picked up a spiker...Lets see...six months ago?

  • 01.12.2012 12:05 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Mark V guy

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf


You've never beaten down a hunter with spiker blades?

When was the last time I picked up a spiker...Lets see...six months ago?


Yeah, i suppose they're not too good in Halo 3. The ODST spiker is way better.

  • 01.12.2012 12:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mark V guy

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf


You've never beaten down a hunter with spiker blades?
Not exactly what I meant though. I was talking about the projectile. It's unbelievably effective against Hunters if you shoot at their back.

  • 01.12.2012 12:39 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: Mark V guy

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Admittedly, the Hunters can easily be brought down with spiker

wtf


You've never beaten down a hunter with spiker blades?
Not exactly what I meant though. I was talking about the projectile. It's unbelievably effective against Hunters if you shoot at their back.


Hmm, i dont think ive done that before

Ill try it later

  • 01.12.2012 1:34 PM PDT
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I haven't played H3 since I do not have a 360, but I did recently watch a ton of Utube vids covering what I assume was the first 3 levels on Normal. I was a bit underwhelmed! Not by the difficulty or lack thereof, but by:

1-the fact that I had heard much of the same marine dialogue, and many of the same musical parts in H2

2-the fact that the grunts did not even sound like grunts, and were in pretty much no way funny at all

3-during CE many people complained that Two Betrayals was just AotCR backwards, but I counted three times during my view where the MC goes from point A to B, then is ordered back to point A to do something, and then out. To me, that just seemed like a good way to keep the campaign maps small!

4-I did not once see a ghost, I did see the brute chopper, which I still do not have a strong opinion on either way. I remember Ghosts in H2 making life absoultely miserable on Legendary for me, especially when they were in pairs. The vehicle battles in H3, or at least what I watched, seemed tame, too tame. HOWEVER, I did really ENJOY finally seeing a Phantom get its ass kicked to hell and back!

I realize this is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic, but then anyone who reads my posts knew it would happen.......ramble ramble ramble ramble!

  • 01.16.2012 10:43 AM PDT

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