Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach's "trueskill" punishes good players, rewards ba...
  • Subject: Reach's "trueskill" punishes good players, rewards ba...
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Reach's "trueskill" punishes good players, rewards ba...
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Always up for REACH customs!

The TrueSkill system in Reach (outside of Arena) works to match even teams, not to match even players. As a result, teams are usually composed as a few good players and a lot of bad players that the game pretty much requires them to carry.

Let's say Matchmaking is creating a 4v4 game with teams of equal overall skill, and a team is supposed to have a total of 40 (completely arbitrary) skill points in order to balance the other team. That means the game might compose teams of players with the skill levels 20, 10, 7, and 3.

How much fun is it to be that player with the skill level of 20, knowing your teammates are there basically to handicap you, and they're complete failures at the game even though you've got a solid W/L and K/D and you've been playing for a year?

How much fun is it to be that "skill level 3" guy, probably a beginner or a little kid, barely good enough to get 2 kills in a game and yet still be matched against a team with an experienced Nova or something who could probably beat you 50-0 in a 1v1?


Instead of just attempting to create equal teams with no regard to the skill gap between teammates, TrueSkill should also make sure players on the teams are as evenly matched with each other as possible. It's not rocket science...

[Edited on 01.10.2012 1:43 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 1:15 PM PDT

Join Halo Haven for all things related to Halo 4


Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
The world can't end next month. My yogurt expires in 2013 - Princess Cadence
If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers

Trueskill and Reach in the same sentence should be illegal.

  • 01.10.2012 1:16 PM PDT

Posted by: the pib
The TrueSkill system in Reach (outside of Arena) works to...
Trueskill outside Arena? Since when?

  • 01.10.2012 1:18 PM PDT

Welcome to the internet. Joy dies here.

When the population goes up matches get better. Basically there is a small pool of players that are close enough to you to have a decent connection that are currently searching for a game. The system scoops up you and the players closest to you skill or connection wise and then tries to put you into two balanced teams. The ratio of good to bad players in the actual player-base is the issue when the population gets low. Where you live is also a factor. Obviously areas with smaller gaming populations are going to have less competition. There are a lot of factors, but when it comes right down to it, there just isn't enough population to permit closely matched games with any regularity. The only real solution is to find a custom games group and join a tournament or something.

  • 01.10.2012 1:24 PM PDT


Posted by: the pib
The TrueSkill system in Reach (outside of Arena) works to match even teams, not to match even players. As a result, teams are usually composed as a few good players and a lot of bad players that the game pretty much requires them to carry.

Let's say Matchmaking is creating a 4v4 game with teams of equal overall skill, and a team is supposed to have a total of 40 (completely arbitrary) skill points in order to balance the other team. That means the game might compose teams of players with the skill levels 20, 10, 7, and 3.

How much fun is it to be that player with the skill level of 20, knowing your teammates are there basically to handicap you, and they're complete failures at the game even though you've got a solid W/L and K/D and you've been playing for a year?

How much fun is it to be that "skill level 3" guy barely good enough to get 2 kills in a game and yet still be matched against a team with an experienced Nova or something who could probably beat you 50-0 in a 1v1?


Instead of just attempting to create equal teams with no regard to the skill gap between teammates, TrueSkill should also make sure players on the teams are as evenly matched with each other as possible. It's not rocket science...


^ that.

also, all match making should be based off sc2's system. i want competition in all playlist across the board at whatever time i play. :)

  • 01.10.2012 1:32 PM PDT

And so God called Moses to come forth but he came fifth and was therefore disqualified.

I don't care about this enough to read it all.

  • 01.10.2012 1:34 PM PDT

Walk by faith. Dude. Not by sight.

Good players deserve to be punished.

  • 01.10.2012 1:40 PM PDT

Join Halo Haven for all things related to Halo 4


Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
The world can't end next month. My yogurt expires in 2013 - Princess Cadence
If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers


Posted by: NicodemusTNT
Good players deserve to be punished.


lulwut?

  • 01.10.2012 1:42 PM PDT


Posted by: Falerin


Here is how a usual game in plain old TS goes in Reach.

Me: +13-17

Synchro: +12-16

Team mates: -15



This is how many of my games go. I can't tell you how often I'm playing with a buddy and we get put with two singles that are .9 K/D Captains and the opposing team has 3 Inheritors with +200,000 kills.

Something like this, where I can clearly beat the opposing team (27 kills vs. their 20 kills), but my teammates just get worked over.

  • 01.10.2012 1:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Banned just for calling someone retarded? lolBnet mods
Duardo = retard

So you think Reach is an actual Halo game, huh? LOL
Jesus! There's a BoB in ma Falcon!


Posted by: NicodemusTNT
Good players deserve to be punished.
Im assuming you're garbage at this game...

  • 01.10.2012 1:48 PM PDT

Walk by faith. Dude. Not by sight.


Posted by: Junior Exec

Posted by: NicodemusTNT
Good players deserve to be punished.
Im assuming you're garbage at this game...


You assume correctly, Garbage Truck.

[Edited on 01.10.2012 2:56 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 1:51 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Always up for REACH customs!


Posted by: boomdeyadah
Posted by: the pib
The TrueSkill system in Reach (outside of Arena) works to...
Trueskill outside Arena? Since when?

I can't link to the source but I remember Jeremiah explaining in the Optimatch forum sometime over the summer that Trueskill cares only about matching even teams, and judges players' skill by their win/loss ratio, not their individual performance.

  • 01.10.2012 1:51 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: the pib
Posted by: boomdeyadah
Posted by: the pib
The TrueSkill system in Reach (outside of Arena) works to...
Trueskill outside Arena? Since when?

I can't link to the source but I remember Jeremiah explaining in the Optimatch forum sometime over the summer that Trueskill cares only about matching even teams, and judges players' skill by their win/loss ratio, not their individual performance.
You don't need Jeremiah. :)

Part of the reason why the matchmaking system is flawed in Reach is because of its low population. There simply just aren't enough people on at a time to be fairly matched with everyone else.

  • 01.10.2012 2:07 PM PDT

Lol

If your a good player, you should carry bad players. That's how it works unless your in a party of good players.

  • 01.10.2012 2:23 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Always up for REACH customs!


Posted by: Killer4785
If your a good player, you should carry bad players. That's how it works unless your in a party of good players.

I'm good but hardly exceptional... it shouldn't be hard for the game to find players with a K/D around mine (1.5).

[Edited on 01.10.2012 2:25 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2012 2:24 PM PDT

Lol

If you want to play a game that prioritizes skill of the players only, Starcraft II is the only one that does that. Every other system cares about speed over similar skill.

  • 01.10.2012 2:27 PM PDT

Welcome to the internet. Joy dies here.

Posted by: P3P5I
You don't need Jeremiah. :)

Awesome link - everything makes more sense now. Trueskill is so generalized so it can work across just about any kind of game that it doesn't actually look at your individual performance.

  • 01.10.2012 2:32 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Always up for REACH customs!


Posted by: KO Drizzy Dray

Posted by: Falerin


Here is how a usual game in plain old TS goes in Reach.

Me: +13-17

Synchro: +12-16

Team mates: -15



This is how many of my games go. I can't tell you how often I'm playing with a buddy and we get put with two singles that are .9 K/D Captains and the opposing team has 3 Inheritors with +200,000 kills.

Something like this, where I can clearly beat the opposing team (27 kills vs. their 20 kills), but my teammates just get worked over.

My feelings exactly

  • 01.11.2012 12:56 PM PDT

wow halo reach is STILL BAD!!!

the lack of ranks/trueskill in this game is almost as bad as armor lock. almost.

  • 01.11.2012 2:34 PM PDT

I am mediocre

Check out my Youtube Channel
Youtube channel name - XLGstudio

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

1v1's go to 15 not 50

  • 01.11.2012 3:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

It's not that bad, lol. I thought i was going to lose this game due to my bad team mates, but after they died a few times they left the game and i coulde carry on and won the game by going 46/0 in TS


[Edited on 01.14.2012 11:23 AM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 11:23 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Trueskill and Reach in the same sentence should be illegal.

  • 01.14.2012 11:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Killer4785
If your a good player, you should carry bad players.


It doesn't matter how good you are, this game is about teamwork. Individual skill can only do so much. This game disgusted me actually.



H1 and H2 were the only games with a pretty high individual skill gap.


Posted by: boomdeyadah
Trueskill outside Arena? Since when?


Ever heard of the MLG playlist? Arena is a joke...

[Edited on 01.14.2012 11:31 AM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 11:30 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2