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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands
  • Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands
Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
As for "Minorities", just consider how meaningful it is to point out that not all Humans belief in a spherical Earth by bringing up Flat Earth Society... A totally meaningless, vanishingly small minority not worth bringing up. So yes, whilst obviously not every single one of them thinks the same, it may as well be put like that.

This analogy is incredibly disingenuous. The percentage of Sangheili who believe the humans are not to be trusted far, far exceeds the percentage of people who believe the Earth is flat.

I was not referring to those Sangheili. I was referring to those that think the opposite; to those that think there is something worthwhile in accepting Humanity. The point there was that whilst we cannot say that ALL Sangheili despise Humans, it may as well be treated like that because those that do not are probably comparable to Flat Earthers.

  • 01.17.2012 2:45 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I was not referring to those Sangheili. I was referring to those that think the opposite; to those that think there is something worthwhile in accepting Humanity. The point there was that whilst we cannot say that ALL Sangheili despise Humans, it may as well be treated like that because those that do not are probably comparable to Flat Earthers.

Thel supports the humans, and Thel isn't dead yet.

I'd say it is pretty incomparable.

  • 01.17.2012 2:49 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
As for "Minorities", just consider how meaningful it is to point out that not all Humans belief in a spherical Earth by bringing up Flat Earth Society... A totally meaningless, vanishingly small minority not worth bringing up. So yes, whilst obviously not every single one of them thinks the same, it may as well be put like that.

This analogy is incredibly disingenuous. The percentage of Sangheili who believe the humans are not to be trusted far, far exceeds the percentage of people who believe the Earth is flat.

I was not referring to those Sangheili. I was referring to those that think the opposite; to those that think there is something worthwhile in accepting Humanity. The point there was that whilst we cannot say that ALL Sangheili despise Humans, it may as well be treated like that because those that do not are probably comparable to Flat Earthers.


Tell me how a cult of idiot trolls denying scientific fact equates to a nonbelligerent goal advocated by the most powerful and well-known man in Sangheili culture.

If you're going to use analogies to back up your flimsy points, try and make them decent at least.

  • 01.17.2012 2:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Thel supports the humans, and Thel isn't dead yet.

I'd say it is pretty incomparable.

That does not prove that he is not a vanishingly small minority. His supporters seem to only support him so far as the issue with technology remains, judging from Levu's opinion on things:

"Do you think we can make peace with humans, Kaidon?"
Levu put his hands flat on the table in front of him. It was a gesture of resignation. He'd always been a pragmatist. "I think they're devious creatures that can be held in place with the right degree of mutual threat," he said. "And I think that we're in no shape to mount the kind of attack that could wipe them out cleanly. But that's not to say I want to make peace with them. We do what we must."

The notions of peace are false and worthless because if the Sangheili were a hell of a lot stronger than what they are now, Earth would be glass and Humanity wiped out by them.

  • 01.17.2012 3:01 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: bat out of h3ll
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Traviss isn't a good writer for Halo. She doesn't portray the ODSTs or Elites well. She doesn't portray Halsey well and all of a sudden Halsey and Mendez have some major beef for no reason. S-IVs are really thrown in there and is just stupid.

Eric Nylund is the only author for Halo.

Greg Bear has already written two books for the Forerunner Sage. William Dietz wrote The Flood. Tobias Buckell wrote The Cole Protocol. Plus, there were various authors who worked on Evolutions such as Kevin Grace, Traviss, Nylund, etc.

[Edited on 01.17.2012 3:02 PM PST]

  • 01.17.2012 3:02 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Tell me how a cult of idiot trolls denying scientific fact equates to a nonbelligerent goal advocated by the most powerful and well-known man in Sangheili culture.

If you're going to use analogies to back up your flimsy points, try and make them decent at least.

Easy, the goals put forward by both are considered to be ridiculous. Thel is not respected judging from the meeting in chapter 2.

  • 01.17.2012 3:10 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Thel supports the humans, and Thel isn't dead yet.

I'd say it is pretty incomparable.

That does not prove that he is not a vanishingly small minority. His supporters seem to only support him so far as the issue with technology remains, judging from Levu's opinion on things:

"Do you think we can make peace with humans, Kaidon?"
Levu put his hands flat on the table in front of him. It was a gesture of resignation. He'd always been a pragmatist. "I think they're devious creatures that can be held in place with the right degree of mutual threat," he said. "And I think that we're in no shape to mount the kind of attack that could wipe them out cleanly. But that's not to say I want to make peace with them. We do what we must."

The notions of peace are false and worthless because if the Sangheili were a hell of a lot stronger than what they are now, Earth would be glass and Humanity wiped out by them.


Which really flies in the face that a goodly amount of them willingly saved Earth when they could have simply destroyed it, and then killed Truth.

  • 01.17.2012 3:11 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Wolverfrog
Tell me how a cult of idiot trolls denying scientific fact equates to a nonbelligerent goal advocated by the most powerful and well-known man in Sangheili culture.

If you're going to use analogies to back up your flimsy points, try and make them decent at least.

Easy, the goals put forward by both are considered to be ridiculous. Thel is not respected judging from the meeting in chapter 2.


He's respected, as shown by what we see in Halo 2 and Halo 3, even when thought a heretical Arbiter who allowed the sacred ring to be destroyed he was shown respect. Glasslands just presents a (perhaps overly) biased view of everything, highlighting all the negatives of characters in bold blacks.

I found it interesting, having flawed, not necessarily 'good' characters as protagonists. It is a little frustrating, but don't let the few viewpoints we are presented with in Glasslands colour your whole view of the Halo universe.

  • 01.17.2012 3:19 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: bat out of h3ll
Eric Nylund is the only author for Halo.

Greg Bear has already written two books for the Forerunner Sage. William Dietz wrote The Flood. Tobias Buckell wrote The Cole Protocol. Plus, there were various authors who worked on Evolutions such as Kevin Grace, Traviss, Nylund, etc.

He means that he thinks Eric Nylund is the only author worth reading.

Personally, I didn't like William Dietz writing almost as much as Traviss', and Tobias Buckell wrote like he was narrating a knock-off Michael Bay movie with cheesy one-liners.

  • 01.17.2012 3:37 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Wolverfrog
He's respected, as shown by what we see in Halo 2 and Halo 3, even when thought a heretical Arbiter who allowed the sacred ring to be destroyed he was shown respect. Glasslands just presents a (perhaps overly) biased view of everything, highlighting all the negatives of characters in bold blacks.

One would think. Though it is not the point of view that we are given that I base this off of. The general atmosphere of the assembly makes it feel as if Thel is akin to a hopeless performer about to be boo'd from the stage:

"Has the human Admiral given you permission to talk to us, then?" someone jeered. "How generous of him."

Posted by: Wolverfrog
I found it interesting, having flawed, not necessarily 'good' characters as protagonists. It is a little frustrating, but don't let the few viewpoints we are presented with in Glasslands colour your whole view of the Halo universe.

I don't have an issue with having flawed characters as protagonists either. It is the way that Traviss handled the larger and wider aspects of the universe beyond these characters, the stuff that they observe or have observed, that have put me off this franchise and its new developers for either not realizing it or accepting it. Reach I could not have honestly cared less about at the end of day once I grew up and realized that a bunch of dates or Spartan-III numbers are meaningless to a story's overall value or relevance. With this it honestly feels like the fundamental characteristics of this whole section of the Halo Universe has been altered from beneath us.

  • 01.17.2012 4:04 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: jack0fhearts
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: bat out of h3ll
Eric Nylund is the only author for Halo.

Greg Bear has already written two books for the Forerunner Sage. William Dietz wrote The Flood. Tobias Buckell wrote The Cole Protocol. Plus, there were various authors who worked on Evolutions such as Kevin Grace, Traviss, Nylund, etc.

He means that he thinks Eric Nylund is the only author worth reading.

Personally, I didn't like William Dietz writing almost as much as Traviss', and Tobias Buckell wrote like he was narrating a knock-off Michael Bay movie with cheesy one-liners.

I thought as much, but wasn't sure. Anyway, I didn't like Dietz writing, either. However, I really liked The Cole Protocol. I think it's under-appreciated, but that's just me. I think Buckell did a great job with Dirt, too.

  • 01.17.2012 4:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: jack0fhearts
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: bat out of h3ll
Eric Nylund is the only author for Halo.

Greg Bear has already written two books for the Forerunner Sage. William Dietz wrote The Flood. Tobias Buckell wrote The Cole Protocol. Plus, there were various authors who worked on Evolutions such as Kevin Grace, Traviss, Nylund, etc.

He means that he thinks Eric Nylund is the only author worth reading.

Personally, I didn't like William Dietz writing almost as much as Traviss', and Tobias Buckell wrote like he was narrating a knock-off Michael Bay movie with cheesy one-liners.

I thought as much, but wasn't sure. Anyway, I didn't like Dietz writing, either. However, I really liked The Cole Protocol. I think it's under-appreciated, but that's just me. I think Buckell did a great job with Dirt, too.


I liked dirt a lot.

  • 01.17.2012 4:18 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Horrible analogy seeing how i am "African American" I and have heard more than enough stories from that time. Yes the "masters" trusted the "House N*****" not to mess with their food or anything else. Which is the reason they were inside and have different views on "The Master" than those out in the fields.

Notwithstanding, slaves still had a great chance to -blam!- up their Master's day. Why didn't they? Because they would be punished, and the same applies to the Jiralhanae. The Brutes are animals; the only reason there was a civil war is because the Prophets gave the Brutes both the permission and the arms necessary to wage the war. The Brutes without the Covenant are incompetent. Hell, even the Sangheili are a little incompetent after the war, as Traviss describes, but the Sangheili were on a higher technological tier to begin with.

Morals are never "obsolete" without those morals they are no different than the brutes. You seem not to understand the subtext behind that.
I concede this to you, however, the presence of a moral code does not mean all the Elites followed it. In the novel that old man was butchered by the fanatical group....


No. they didn't mess with the Master because they were treated differently so they WOULDN'T mess up his stuff. which is why i said "House Ni*****" have a completely different perspective than those outside. You have no idea what you are talking about so please stop. Further more, if you are honestly trying to apply this to halo then it is only supporting my point.


You just solved your own riddle. They are warriors of a different bred therefore have their own rules, they do not follow the covenant.

  • 01.18.2012 5:18 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Osman, Vaz, val and Devereux are so boring.

  • 01.18.2012 8:40 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

No. they didn't mess with the Master because they were treated differently so they WOULDN'T mess up his stuff. which is why i said "House Ni*****" have a completely different perspective than those outside. You have no idea what you are talking about so please stop. Further more, if you are honestly trying to apply this to halo then it is only supporting my point.
Granted the analogy isn't flawless, but you still fail to see my point.

I don't care if the slaves worked in the fields or in the house, the slaves in the fields worked for the masters who made a profit based on their labor. If the slaves decide to say, destroy the field, then there would be severe consequences. Even slaves who weren't "House N******" as you so eloquently said had a direct impact on the master's business.

So let's get back on the matter at hand. The Brutes can in no practical way sabotage the Sangheili in a significant way. They do not have the intelligence nor the pivotal role in the society to do something on the magnitude you were suggesting. Even if we find out that the Brutes attacked at the end of the novel, that still may not prove your point, because they attacked this fringe temple, not the center of the government on Sanghelios.

Why is this even an issue, grey? You have latched onto such an insignificant "issue," and used it in conjunction with the actual flaws of the novel to make the suggestion that the entire novel was terrible. Played like a politician.

  • 01.18.2012 9:05 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
..destroy the field, then there would be severe consequences.

So let's get back on the matter at hand. The Brutes can in no practical way sabotage the Sangheili in a significant way. They do not have the intelligence nor the pivotal role in the society to do something on the magnitude you were suggesting. Even if we find out that the Brutes attacked at the end of the novel, that still may not prove your point, because they attacked this fringe temple, not the center of the government on Sanghelios.

Why is this even an issue, grey? You have latched onto such an insignificant "issue," and used it in conjunction with the actual flaws of the novel to make the suggestion that the entire novel was terrible. Played like a politician.



I have stated several times plasma that they wouldn't do that because they are treated DIFFERENTLY than the slaves outside the house. Which is why when a riot or commotion breaks out they do not understand why because "The Master" has been good to them. You do not understand what you are talking about in any context.


Please explain to us how the Brutes cannot Sabotage the elites "In no practical way". They are fixing the ships right? So if they are smart enough to repair them they can sabotage them in some fashion. I don't care about scale it is the principle of the matter. They Fix the ships, They maintain the crops; they can easily disrupt the ships if they wanted to not to mention poison fields or water supplies.

You are honestly saying that if the Brutes attacked the temple it wouldn't matter? You do understand that those Brutes clearly have some backing and intelligence behind them not to mention we know that if other brutes do not help then they will attack them. The Temple would only be the start.

It is an issue because you have no idea of what you are talking about and fail to see past "today".

  • 01.18.2012 2:08 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
They are fixing the ships right?


So far as I'm aware, there's actually nothing in the book saying Jiralhanae does this. There are 'crews' who do heavy lifting and such, and Jul entertains the possibility of them becoming engineers, but at the time of Glasslands this is not a reality. Could be that I missed a line, but I've had a look through and I don't think anything states Jiralhanae serve as engineers.

It was crewed by Jiralhanae and the only maintenance workers around seemed to be Unggoy

Seems like although the Jiralhanae crewed the ships, only the Unggoy performed maintenance.

  • 01.18.2012 2:17 PM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
They are fixing the ships right?


So far as I'm aware, there's actually nothing in the book saying Jiralhanae does this. There are 'crews' who do heavy lifting and such, and Jul entertains the possibility of them becoming engineers, but at the time of Glasslands this is not a reality. Could be that I missed a line, but I've had a look through and I don't think anything states Jiralhanae serve as engineers.

It was crewed by Jiralhanae and the only maintenance workers around seemed to be Unggoy

Seems like although the Jiralhanae crewed the ships, only the Unggoy performed maintenance.


Jul's wife outright says in the second chapter preview that they have to "Rely on those savages" to maintain their equipment.

  • 01.18.2012 2:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
They are fixing the ships right?


So far as I'm aware, there's actually nothing in the book saying Jiralhanae does this. There are 'crews' who do heavy lifting and such, and Jul entertains the possibility of them becoming engineers, but at the time of Glasslands this is not a reality. Could be that I missed a line, but I've had a look through and I don't think anything states Jiralhanae serve as engineers.

It was crewed by Jiralhanae and the only maintenance workers around seemed to be Unggoy

Seems like although the Jiralhanae crewed the ships, only the Unggoy performed maintenance.


Jul's wife outright says in the second chapter preview that they have to "Rely on those savages" to maintain their equipment.


Not that I can see.

Thousands of years doing the San'Shyuum's bidding, each species made as dependent as children, and we never asked ourselves what would happen if it all fell apart. The San'Shyuum made us reliant on savages.

That's a general statement, not referring to the maintenance of equipment at all. It's not even specifying the Jiralhanae; Raia's speaking of all non-Sangheili races, due to racism which is ingrained throughout most Sangheili characters in the book.

  • 01.18.2012 2:59 PM PDT

You know our motto, We deliver!


Posted by: anton1792
This should help.

I'm just about to start reading Glasslands. I still excited to read it but that negative review seemed to enlighten me. Otherwise I think I would have read it and would just get more annoyed as I went on. Now I can relate to this guy who words his review amazingly.

  • 01.18.2012 3:02 PM PDT

Note the final sentance.


"The San'shyuum made us reliant on savages."

That's a pretty clear statement that the BRUTES are doing the bulk of repair work and field tending. They are the race Elites consider Savage, not grunts.

  • 01.18.2012 3:13 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Note the final sentance.


"The San'shyuum made us reliant on savages."

That's a pretty clear statement that the BRUTES are doing the bulk of repair work and field tending. They are the race Elites consider Savage, not grunts.


No, it's really not a clear statement at all attesting to Jiralhanae being engineers (something never said, and even contradicted later on when the book tells us only Unggoy are doing maintenance,) and in fact most likely refers to how the San 'Shyuum shoe-horned the Sangheili into the role of warriors and made them dependent upon aliens for everything else.

You're just arguing for the sake of it, now. I have words from the book backing me up. You're for some reason under the impression that 'savage' means 'Jiralhanae;' the word's a synonym for 'brute,' yes, but that's just a human-coined term that non-humans don't use.

In this, Raia was referring to all the races of the Covenant beneath the Sangheili. And how pre-great schism the Sangheili relied upon them.

Not at all about the current state of affairs.

  • 01.18.2012 3:26 PM PDT

Wolver, tell me, how many Covenant races are on the elite homeworld in Glasslands?

two. Grunts and Brutes. When before have Elites called Grunts savages? I can't think of one. Nor for hunters, drones, engineers...

Jackals I don't recall savages, though they were viewed not as greatly.

Now brutes, I recall them being called Savages more times.

Because, as I can't find the chapter 2 preview again, I remember the context of the line was directed at the PRESENT, not the past. Aka, directly on the Elite homeworld.

  • 01.18.2012 3:40 PM PDT

Waypoint Moderators aren't really Moderators, just power hungry and its goal is defend their beloved Halo at all costs. (Meaning that they wank Halo too much.)

BS Angel is alleged foe so, be wary of Waypoint and its moderators! Do not attempt to move to Waypoint. Enter your own risk.

*WARNING* IT IS MY OPINION.


Posted by: Wolverfrog


It is not general statement. It's already stated that Brutes are savages, period. So, they were referring to brutes. That is so difficult to understand?

  • 01.18.2012 3:48 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Can someone tell me where the idea of Brutes and/or Grunts being good engineers came from? The Return was clear that the Prophets were in charge of the technology and when they vanished, the Elites and Brutes ships were falling apart because neither knew the skills to repair or make new ships.

  • 01.18.2012 4:31 PM PDT