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  • Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands
Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands

yas334229812


Posted by: anton1792

Truth did not order them to do it. He gave them permission to do it. There is a difference.


Actually it was more or less an order, if you said no to one of the high prophets it is like heresy and you could be killed by the others.

It was like an order as there was alot of religious zealous behind this war and and many more did it because it was the right thing to do according to them.

Also it is more or less an order as they were listening to the high prophets.

  • 01.11.2012 9:24 AM PDT

yas334229812

See Deception Cobra i will try to talk about some point which you could be right about.

The Brutes could be forgiven for they are considered dumb and stupid followers, by the Sangheilli. And the prophets actaully ordered the genocide the brutes followed mindlessly, this could be the reason why the Sangheilli did not kill them, because they were followers and dumb, tools mainly and the true villain according to them are the prophets.

Also they could not kill the Brutes on their planets many maybe were killed but maybe some cooler heads though hey if we kill them all of then who will tend our crops and maintain our machines we cannot do it by ourselves.

Which is why the sangheilli kept them alive and maybe after some time they resented them but considering them dumb thought that they would not fight back and act like loyal servants. Mainly like a slave race.

Humanity is not a slave race and are not dumb they can outmaneuver enemies and beat them, and progress faster, if given time they will pass all the races in tech and progress and if there was still hate kill the Sangheilli off, although not likely as cooler heads will prevail.

Also remember Humans have also taken out a huge part of their fleet and one of their planets was nearly destroyed by a bomb. Imagine if many more of them entered Sangheilli space, the Sangheilli would be screwed.

Brutes can not do this, and also would not win in many space warfares as once the Sangheilli get somewhat of more ships and are able to fix more of them, they will beat the Brutes with millitary expertise that far supercedes the brutes. They would outmaneuver them.

The main reason the brutes are not considered a threat is that they are considered dumb and easy to put down, a blind belief. Plus they still blame the prophets for it and some may believe that the Brutes followed the Prophets cause they are dumb. And they would be more usefull as slaves.

And stormtank Contact Harvest was a good story. It talked about the beginning, and usually the beginning is just little touching and poking and trying to create peace. Plus the area was not considered a necessary need more military might. no one knew they would be coming from there.

And messages as well as ships take a long time to enter the inner colony world.

[Edited on 01.11.2012 9:37 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 9:37 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Halsey's guilt and self-loathing has already been covered in TFOR, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx. Traviss goes out of her way to demonise Halsey in the eyes of every single human being, like the ODSTs when Parangosky explains everything Halsey did.

Hold the phone, what about those other Spartans that ONI created? The ones made to be DISPOSABLE SUICIDE TROOPERS, but no, we're told that it is HALSEY that is unethical...

It's also worth noting that ONI gave Halsey the go-ahead for the Spartan-II program twice, Parangosky is butthurt because Halsey never told her about the flash clones... How does this make Halsey unethical again? Her reasons are justified so she can give closure to the families, instead of making them live in fear that their child has been raped or something. And what's Parangosky's justification for this? Saying that Halsey has committed actions "likely to aid the enemy"...

...

What? This woman has devoted decades of her life to researching and creating soldiers capable of defending humanity after Carver's analysis that: "Unless the political situation throughout the colonies is stabilized (preferably by force), the Government will collapse and civil war will rip human society apart."

Of everything she's done to help the UNSC, why would she suddenly commit acts "likely to aid the enemy"? I get it, she's being used as a scapegoat, but it's a shoddy way to try to get this point across. It make no sense at all and is just another way of making the audience think that Halsey is bad.

Then there's Mendez... good ol' Mendez. Oh, wait, now he's more depressing than Bella from Twilight... After aout 3 books of being told that he is more than willing to carry on doing what he does because it's for the preservation of humanity, following Halsey and then ONI for the Spartan-III program, all of a sudden he starts hating on Halsey.

And we know why, don't we? Drama. Clear-cut, soap opera, cringey drama so that the characters have something to do in the Dyson Sphere - the largest known structure in the Halo universe, and THIS is the best that Traviss can come up with.


And now, the mother of all questions:
What is wrong with Parangosky?

Here's a better question: What isn't wrong with Parangosky?

Old Maggie says that the Spartans will be given full access to their parental records and every detail about their past. Apparently she is completely unaware of the consequences that this is going to have... Here's a scenario that follows:

- Fred finds out about his family, all seems tickety-boo as they're still alive so he decides to go pay them a visit, this is his chance to integrate himself into normal human society for the first time since he was 6.

- Fred turns up on their doorstep, awkwardness ensues as he reveals to the woman 3 feet shorter than him that he's her son.

- WHAM! Chain reaction! Other Spartans reveal themselves to their families and there is a massive amount of backlash in the media for Halsey, the woman who turned these children into "monsters" and "freaks". Spartans are segregated from their families because they can't accept what has been done to their children, most of the parents would have moved on from the loss of their children anyway and now they've come back and revealed that they never died. Mental trauma abound!

- Oh, here's a totally unforseeable and cruel plot twist! Halsey reveals that it was ONI that gave her the green light for this project and funded it, and that ONI themselves got over 930 other children for another Spartan project designed as disposable supersoldiers. Talk about awkwardness in the court room!

- Everyone rises up against ONI, their other twisted experiments are revealed (as Halsey had access to a lot of classified records and spills the beans, for example the experiments that John Smith was conducting by infecting humans with the Flood).

Result - Maggs has just somehow unknowingly signed a death warrant for ONI because she hates Halsey.

And then Parangosky starts talking about making more Spartans in a similar fashion to the ORION project, because that went down really well last time, right? Where will the funding come from for this? I guess rebuilding is no longer a priority only a few months after the end of the war then if more Spartans are going to be made for some reason we're not told? Spartan-IVs? Is this some kind of fan fiction? Why not just recall Gamma Company? That would make a lot more sense.

So Spartans are now going to get the Clone Trooper treatment, they'll just start being pumped out again and again... but look who the author is, are any of us really all that surprised.

And then what the hell is Fred doing the entire time? He outranks EVERYONE there. He'd definitely push Halsey to the side when it comes to communicating with Earth, you'd think that this would be his priority.

We lose every one of the Spartan-IIs and all but one of the IIIs as characters. They're made into machines, herpicus derpicus as the Latin phrase goes.

Then you've got Halsey "abducting" the Spartans. What the hell? How does Parangosky, or anyone outside the Sphere, know she abducted them? Hood sent the Spartans. For all anyone knows, they all bloody died, so let's just go and just stick around this mystery object, when we have most of Humanity wiped out.

And then Halsey pops up, and everyone is all like "Y U TOOK THEM AWAY WEN WE NEEDED?!?!?!?!?!", yet nobody is getting mad at Lord Hood in the least for sending them in the first place. No. It's HALSEY'S fault.

And then there's Anton's point: Where did the whole "Humans are utter liars" stereotype come from? I have noticed that this was, above all of the other insults coming from the Sangheili, the most prominent quip. It is almost like a running theme in the novel, that Humanity somehow have the stereotype as being profuse liars in the galaxy. This has just come out of the blue. As far as I am aware there was no indication at all in the canon that the Sangheili thought of Humans as being liars in particular above anything else. It was always just the usual "Heretic" or "pathetic" or "weak/stupid" etc quips coming from the ones that were over-zealous like that. However no one quality in particular was ever singled out and aggrandized above the others, as if it were a common stereotype.

Jul said that Humans hold compassion and fair play as the staples of their society, and then says that this is a lie (huh!) because there is "copious amounts of evidence to the contrary". What evidence? And how can he know this? How the -blam!- does this guy suddenly know so much about humanity?

What about this next bit in chapter 7 somewhere:

"But he also knew just how successful humans had been using the most underhand and dishonest tactics; not just bluff and feint, but the most complex and disgusting deceptions. They were prepared to forfeit the lives of their own people to achieve it, too."

What evidence is there for "underhanded and dishonest tactics", and of Humanity "sacrificing their own in order to achieve it"? and how does he know about these things? How can you even have "underhanded and dishonest" tactics and "disgusting deceptions" coming from the losing side in a war of genocide? There are, evidently, no rules and absolutely no civility to be found in such a scenario in the first place. So what does any of that even mean?

How does 'Telcam know about humanity's religions, enough to say that the major ones are corrupt? In order to know that he would need to have a decent knowledge of these institutions, of their history and of their effects on society. How can he know all this?

I get the impression that all of this has been stuck on where it either never existed before or does not make sense just to give the Sangheili a good excuse to hate humans. Because that is all Glasslands is about. Hate, hate, a side dish of hate and a dessert of hate with hate custard on top.

This was a terrible Halo book, Traviss completely ignored important details from the canon (things like Lucy punching Halsey with enough force it made her arm vibrate, yet Halsey escapes death with only a bloody nose) and basically writes out of fear of becoming too fond of and familiar with the universe she's writing books for.

  • 01.11.2012 9:56 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I rather enjoyed Glasslands. Did it have as rich of writing as Nylund? No, but the story was interesting and gave us insights into what's to come. Was Halsey as confident as she had been in other books? No, but that's because they were in a brand new location and she just discovered that there were SPARTAN IIIs. She deduced that Mendez, whom she hadn't seen in 20 years, most likely helped created these new SPARTANs, and she wanted to get to the bottom of why they were created.

I thought everything was explained pretty well, so I'm really not understanding why there is dislike for the book. The other books always featured battle with the Covenant, or some huge mission to accomplish, and this one really didn't. I believe that's a major reason why this book is disliked.

  • 01.11.2012 9:57 AM PDT

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Posted by: Duardo
The other books always featured battle with the Covenant, or some huge mission to accomplish, and this one really didn't. I believe that's a major reason why this book is disliked.


This book reminded me strongly of Orson Scott Card's Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide. They provided rich infomation, but didn't exactly conclude anything. Not to mention nearly ousting Ender as the main protagonist, which was what most people expected from Ender's Game. Are you familiar with these novels? Do you see the parallels I am referring to?

  • 01.11.2012 10:01 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Duardo
the story was interesting and gave us insights into what's to come.


These "insights" were typically a few throwaway lines that were never elaborated on at all. For example, when Halsey is in custody by Installation 03, the ONLY mention we get of the fact that humanity have found another Halo is the location record at the start of the chapter. It just goes back to the senseless drivel that has degraded Parangosky from a dark, mysterious woman not to be crossed into a spontaneous moron who acts out of hate.

Other examples include the brief mention of Mark VII, the Infinity and Spartan-IVs. WHERE IS THIS FUNDING COMING FROM? The war has been over for like 3 months, yet somehow humanity have the resources to abandon any effort to rebuild and instead start spending more and more on 3 projects that cost more than a dozen battlegroups.

And Spartan-IVs... really? This is fan fiction stuff, what about Gamma Company? If we are going to have more Spartans, why not just say that the 330 sent out on some mission were victorious and recalled instead of not saying a word about them?

  • 01.11.2012 10:08 AM PDT

yas334229812

Halsey is dead to the world as we know it and would be kept in lockdown, mainly to break her down. So she would not really be a threat.

Plus the spartans already do not want to read their files as they fear it, it is scary and they do not want to tknow the things they missed. Also if they did read it none of them are likely to do anything.

If they do go, their parents will be told to stay hush hush, if they still do exist. Not only that he will be given missions and not really allowed near the public. Always placed into training. Oni will find a way to keep them of this problem.

This giving of info was an act by Paragnosky to destroy Halsey mentally. Its likely she will be potrayed as a victim in the next book, and she does look like a victim near the end.

Humans being liars mainly may have been the corruption of the view that humans are smart, and maybe those who had no real contact took that is smart and devious able to plot lots of things that are also evil, and able to stab your back at any time. May also have resulted from those who vehemently hated humans and curropted it and this view got used so much that it just became a stereotype.

Most do not know humanity and only guess from what they are told, and what they know is that they are smart and can plot devious plans, like placing a bomb on a covie ship and blowing it up near their colony, rather than a straight up fight.

Also most of this hate is mainly just a low key one, only in words in the majority. hopefully Phillips with his visit actually fixed some of this.

On telcam you can say that he has studied old records and tried to understand them so as for interrogation and know how to break them. Plus he may have been one of those who secretly doubted the human being heretics and tried to understand them, believing he can prove the errors in their way and bring them to the great journey. He may act like the others as a cover.

Honesty etc by Jul standard could be by fighting fair and giving what one has won their fair share, but in reality we play in the dark making silent moves and hitting from all sides. Plus he could have in his hate for humanity learnt somethings about us and our conflicts and how we are lying many times, but we try to keep these values of honesty and pride high as something we should achieve but very few of us do so.

As to why they hate Halsey for taking the spartans away well it was all made up by parangosky and was mainly a cover for the real story, Hood can not be blamed as he is an important figure and damaging his reputation would damage the moral and create more uncertainty, need for someone to rally behind and hood is one to rally behind.

True a little more could have gone to it but hey not really any canon breaking going on.

  • 01.11.2012 10:14 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Duardo
the story was interesting and gave us insights into what's to come.


These "insights" were typically a few throwaway lines that were never elaborated on at all. For example, when Halsey is in custody by Installation 03, the ONLY mention we get of the fact that humanity have found another Halo is the location record at the start of the chapter. It just goes back to the senseless drivel that has degraded Parangosky from a dark, mysterious woman not to be crossed into a spontaneous moron who acts out of hate.

Other examples include the brief mention of Mark VII, the Infinity and Spartan-IVs. WHERE IS THIS FUNDING COMING FROM? The war has been over for like 3 months, yet somehow humanity have the resources to abandon any effort to rebuild and instead start spending more and more on 3 projects that cost more than a dozen battlegroups.

And Spartan-IVs... really? This is fan fiction stuff, what about Gamma Company? If we are going to have more Spartans, why not just say that the 330 sent out on some mission were victorious and recalled instead of not saying a word about them?


You do realize this is science-fiction, right? You're looking ridiculous trying to demand where the UNSC bean-counters were during all of this.

  • 01.11.2012 10:18 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: ajw34307


These "insights" were typically a few throwaway lines that were never elaborated on at all. For example, when Halsey is in custody by Installation 03, the ONLY mention we get of the fact that humanity have found another Halo is the location record at the start of the chapter. It just goes back to the senseless drivel that has degraded Parangosky from a dark, mysterious woman not to be crossed into a spontaneous moron who acts out of hate.

Other examples include the brief mention of Mark VII, the Infinity and Spartan-IVs. WHERE IS THIS FUNDING COMING FROM? The war has been over for like 3 months, yet somehow humanity have the resources to abandon any effort to rebuild and instead start spending more and more on 3 projects that cost more than a dozen battlegroups.

And Spartan-IVs... really? This is fan fiction stuff, what about Gamma Company? If we are going to have more Spartans, why not just say that the 330 sent out on some mission were victorious and recalled instead of not saying a word about them?


Most of these could be worked on but it was not part of the main story, and is best left for another story. Gamma company shall be told about in another story and the door needs to be left open so that someone can come in and let their imagination flow and write the story the want without having been tied down with too much restrictions.

Funding and everything else were not part of the story and are not of importance which is why they were left out, only pointed out these certain projects to shadow what is to come.

Humanity having resources is quite hard to find maybe they are just paying for the equipment and tech and the rest of the building resources are kind of confiscated. No one knows. Plus jobs could have been made and this is now feeding more people.

Real question for me what extent of the damage is recoverable. For exmaple reach is not something and other glassed planets not something they want to work on but right now rebuilding all the cities still standing and major poputlation zones.

  • 01.11.2012 10:21 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: risay_117
Posted by: anton1792
Truth did not order them to do it. He gave them permission to do it. There is a difference.

Actually it was more or less an order, if you said no to one of the high prophets it is like heresy and you could be killed by the others.

It was like an order as there was alot of religious zealous behind this war and and many more did it because it was the right thing to do according to them.

Also it is more or less an order as they were listening to the high prophets.

The Brutes were willing accomplices. They wanted this. All they needed was the Prophets favour, which they eventually got. At that point, it ceases to be an order in the Brutes eyes and more like a permission to do what they have always wanted to do: Overthrow the Elites. Seriously, you all make it sound as if the Brutes only did it because they were told to and felt uncomfortable with the act. It is a lot more complicated than that.

Religious zealousness had very little to do with this particular incident you see, it was purely racially and class driven.

The Elites, however, were strictly ordered to wage war on Humanity. At first there was no prior wish to do so, because they did not know anything about Humanity, and as the war dragged on, if pure Bungie works are anything to go by (Not all this incongruous expanded media content), the Elites were uncomfortable doing it.

Which links back to the original post I quoted.

  • 01.11.2012 10:39 AM PDT

yas334229812

You are right, but hey they still consider them dumb so they consider them easy to beat which may be why they still have a very weak alliance, or maybe a hostages.

Though i believe their usefullness is why they still live and maybe the need to make them their slaves.

True the elites are really not the zealous but who did not want to act like a zealous person, maybe they do not want to kill the kids and wipe them off, but just to send humans of to a more primitive stage and just exxagerating in their speech.

Also there are always a couple of nutjobs in the world

  • 01.11.2012 10:52 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: risay_117
Most of these could be worked on but it was not part of the main story, and is best left for another story.


What? If this is the case then there's really no reason to mention things like Spartan-IVs, the Infinity, Installation 03 and all that. If things this big are going to be mentioned, they should not be left unexplained - even if it's just a few details.

To deny the readers so many important details and hold off certain foreshadowing elements just so I buy the next book reflects negatively on the book I already own, therefore legitimately decreasing its literary value. Deliberately keeping stuff out to cash in later makes for a worse-off product in the present.

Look at Cryptum, it introduced a whole new twist on the Halo universe we knew. There was stuff about the Human-Forerunner war, the alliance with the San'Shyuum (etc), none of which was directly tied with the main story but is explained so we have an idea of what's going on. Primordium elaborates on the details and gives us satisfactory closure on certain elements of the story. This is called development. Traviss now has to spend double the amount of time in her next book explaining these new features of the story (though that could be a good thing, less demonising of once-good characters).

Gamma company shall be told about in another story and the door needs to be left open so that someone can come in and let their imagination flow and write the story the want without having been tied down with too much restrictions.

Yet, given that Glasslands is a direct follow-up to Ghosts of Onyx, Gamma Company would have been very appropriate for this book. The ODST squad and Osman were -blam!- boring, the only characters that stood out were Phillips and Black Box, the rest weren't memorable at all.

The story of Gamma Company would have been a lot more enticing than this BS plot of weaving dissent in the one civilization that would help humanity. It's like Traviss is trying to copy the way the Forerunners are presented in Cryptum, keeping the other races down so that they retain the ultimate power.

Funding and everything else were not part of the story and are not of importance which is why they were left out, only pointed out these certain projects to shadow what is to come.

Humanity having resources is quite hard to find maybe they are just paying for the equipment and tech and the rest of the building resources are kind of confiscated. No one knows. Plus jobs could have been made and this is now feeding more people.

Real question for me what extent of the damage is recoverable. For exmaple reach is not something and other glassed planets not something they want to work on but right now rebuilding all the cities still standing and major poputlation zones.


Again, it doesn't matter if it's part of the story. When a war that has claimed over 20 billion human lives, dozens of colonies and countless resources is finished then humanity should be in ruin... But no. Somehow they are capable of spending a copious sum of money on a whole new Spartan project (reflecting one that failed miserably first time), a Mary-Sue warship that's biggerer and betterer than all other ships and goodness knows what else.

Look at the aftermath of WWI, our first total war left just about everyone in mass poverty, political and economic recessiom with countless dead and more sufferring because there were too few resources around. It had all gone into a 4 year war, much like how everything had gone into a 27 year long war with the Covenant. Yet humanity is somehow able to emerge like nothing has happened, the Great Schism pretty much proving to be meaningless since the Elites are willing to cooperate with the Brutes...

None of it makes any sense.

  • 01.11.2012 10:55 AM PDT
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I think the main reason Glasslands is hated is because of the apparent quick recovery and the fact for the first time Halsey is portrayed as the victim, something Halo fans have not seen before.

  • 01.11.2012 11:00 AM PDT

Risay, there is still the fact Hood sent the Spartans to Aid Halsey, and they return to Earth without Halsey.

Why did he not ask about Halsey to Fred? Why did he not debrief them on their mission to help those at Onyx?

Only cause that'd easily reveal Parangosky for the retard she is and would be the smart thing to do.

  • 01.11.2012 11:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Duardo
The other books always featured battle with the Covenant, or some huge mission to accomplish, and this one really didn't. I believe that's a major reason why this book is disliked.


This book reminded me strongly of Orson Scott Card's Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide. They provided rich infomation, but didn't exactly conclude anything. Not to mention nearly ousting Ender as the main protagonist, which was what most people expected from Ender's Game. Are you familiar with these novels? Do you see the parallels I am referring to?


Heh, I got the exact same vibe when I went through glasslands.

  • 01.11.2012 11:15 AM PDT
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All of a sudden the Human side has a super weapon ship with a bunch of Forerunner technology and hundreds of new Spartans. Spartan-IVs was a dumb move. There is no way they were created after the War. That means the UNSC had a bunch of Spartans that they decided they didn't need when the Covenant found Earth. Seriously, why weren't they defending Earth?

  • 01.11.2012 11:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

1. It makes Halsey look evil.

2. Portrays the Sangheili horribly.

3. Far too much stuff is just added with no explanation.

4. Ending is awful. "And then they all magically find a way out!!! THE END."

5. Almost everybody in the book suddenly hates Halsey for NO REASON AT ALL.

6. Parangosky's excuse for arresting Halsey is easily the DUMBEST thing I have EVER read.

7. Half of Mendez's dialogue was taking the Lord's name in vain. It was almost every three words. It got quite annoying.

[Edited on 01.12.2012 4:53 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 11:24 AM PDT

Kick start a craze

I didn't hate the book, but I didn't exactly love it. I appreciated what she tried to do with one small group attempting to disrupt the elite society and everything but it didn't feel very military-ish. Everything in the book just felt way too personal. All of a sudden no one had any respect for the chain of command and hardened soldiers just got more touchy-feely than they should have. Also, the whole attack Halsey thing got kind of annoying. I can understand her trying to make amends for abducting children but the book went too far with it.

  • 01.11.2012 11:55 AM PDT

I'm in the middle of reading it (and dancing around the minute spoilers in this thread), and I like it so far. I haven't really noticed any absurd departures from established character in Halsey yet. She's still the curiosity-motivated, somewhat morally bankrupt genius she's always been. Unless I haven't hit the part that people complain about.

The only point that I thought someone did something that was really weird and awkwardly out-of-character was when Naomi put on her armour and asked if it made her butt look big. O_o

But like I said, I am only half-way through.

  • 01.11.2012 12:54 PM PDT

Cave Johnson here, we're done!

PS: If you are reading this comment while imagining my voice, don't panic. That's just a side effect of the testing.


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
1. It makes Halsey look evil.


It doesn't make Halsey look evil, it just brings to mind the fact that she did some questionably ethical things to achieve the spartan project. Also hinted that she's a bit of a sociopath, who aren't inherently evil, they just don't feel much symptathy or rather less empathetic.

Apparently most of you are surprised that what halsey did was wrong, sure the outcome was beneficial, but do you think the world would judge her the same way if the covenant hadn't shown up?

2. Portrays the Sangheili horribly.

It doesn't portray them horribly, we just get a main character that is against the views of one of our more popular elite characters (if not the most popular). To say that there isn't a single elite out there that might want to kill humans and wipe them out after the war is just stupid. We have our prejudices against elites, and I'm sure that they definitely do too. And in this case someone with a bad idea with power has a plan, a plan that hasn't already been presented once already. I believe it was in Cole Protocol that an assassin tried to kill the arbiter.

3. Far too much stuff is just added with no explanation.

Because plot holes made in a book that will have follow up books are obviously never going to be addressed (only the minor ones are likely to not be addressed).


4. Ending is awful. "And then they all magically find a way out!!! THE END."

You mean they find engineers untouched by the covenant had them and used them to take the sphere out of slipspace?

It wasn't done by "magic", they made an emphasis on finding engineers because at some point later on it will be important. Why spend good portions of the novel talking about how we don't have engineers if they aren't going to be relevant at some point in the future?

Those engineers on the sphere are going to be important.

5. Almost evrybody in the book suddenly hates Halsey for NO REASON AT ALL.

So you are telling me there is no reason to hate halsey? You are telling me that no one should be offended by kidnapping children, turning them into super soldiers to fight innies (covies weren't around for the start of the spartan 2 project), and then replacing them with flash clones that will die horrible deaths in years time?

The only people who hate halsey are a small group of people who know what she did, which regardless of how beneficial it ultimately was, was a bad thing to do. I was surprised that people found this shocking to see people find it weird that what halsey did was bad. She kidnapped kids! Stole their lives away and genetically modified them into weapons! And you have a problem with the frequency in which Mendez said "God Damnit"? Where is your moral compass pointing?


7. Half of Mendez's dialogue was taking the Lord's name in vain. It was almost every three words. It got quite annoying.

He isn't a man of many words, and I'm surprised how vocal he was about the spartan project. I'm just happy that we get to see more than 12 lines from him in a novel, let alone internal dialogue.

[Edited on 01.11.2012 1:47 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 1:45 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
1. It makes Halsey look evil.

2. Portrays the Sangheili horribly.

3. Far too much stuff is just added with no explanation.

4. Ending is awful. "And then they all magically find a way out!!! THE END."

5. Almost evrybody in the book suddenly hates Halsey for NO REASON AT ALL.

6. Parangosky's excuse for arresting Halsey is easily the DUMBEST thing I have EVER read.

7. Half of Mendez's dialogue was taking the Lord's name in vain. It was almost every three words. It got quite annoying.


Here's an interesting conundrum: You're OK with a fictional character kidnapping, brainwashing, and subjecting six year olds to war and combat, you don't understand why people hate her when they find out she did this, and you don't understand why she is arrested, but you aren't OK with a fictional character taking the lord's name in vain.

Not trying to pick on your beliefs, just don't see much congruency here.

  • 01.11.2012 1:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: tinyohyeah

Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
1. It makes Halsey look evil.


It doesn't make Halsey look evil, it just brings to mind the fact that she did some questionably ethical things to achieve the spartan project. Also hinted that she's a bit of a sociopath, who aren't inherently evil, they just don't feel much symptathy or rather less empathetic.

Apparently most of you are surprised that what halsey did was wrong, sure the outcome was beneficial, but do you think the world would judge her the same way if the covenant hadn't shown up?


Complete Bullshirt, If halsey didn't care jack squat she wouldn't have created clones to give the parents sympathy; She wouldn't take the time to know the spartans to the point she knew who was who despite the armor, She wouldn't mourn at their loss, she wouldn't have used only the best medicines at the time, she wouldn't comment on her guilt constantly.


That is Bull -blam!- and anybody that has ever tried to say that clearly didn't read the books. And i ask for the 20th time What about Ackerson?

The on;y thing "Wrong" with halsey is the hormonal imbalance that was theorized in the Datapads.

  • 01.11.2012 1:55 PM PDT

Haveta add, ANYBODY that hates Halsey should hate ONI far, far more.

Especially since the ODST in question knows full well exactly what the Spartan 3's are apparently, and is fine with ONI.

It's a severe case of "WTF" that the man hates what Halsey did concerning the S2's, but is fine with ONI's S3 suicide soldiers barely in their teens when first deployed.

  • 01.11.2012 2:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Haveta add, ANYBODY that hates Halsey should hate ONI far, far more.

Especially since the ODST in question knows full well exactly what the Spartan 3's are apparently, and is fine with ONI.

It's a severe case of "WTF" that the man hates what Halsey did concerning the S2's, but is fine with ONI's S3 suicide soldiers barely in their teens when first deployed.


It makes no sense, if the people defending the novel knew the lore behind Halsey's actions not to mention saw clear mistakes in Karen's writing then they would understand.

I don't give a Rats ass if Ackerson is dead, There were plenty of N@zi's that were tried at Nuremberg despite being dead. So that logic is invalid.

  • 01.11.2012 2:15 PM PDT

yas334229812

You are right ajw but we have to wait and see.

also remember after WW1 Germany if the terms were followed should not have ever reached to great military mights at all, but it did. Where there is a will there is a way.

True the immediate effects were horrible, but as time went by and rebuilding needed to begin things started to get better although this was mainly due to america not being touched and profiting from the war as well.

Although one can say when new expansion occurs wealth just begins to pour in. Imagine if the humans are now selling opium to the grunts just to make money or are making alot of money by selling certain low tech to other alien species, for impossibly large amount of wealth.

Also remember all the gold lost in all the lost colonies and resources get your hand on that cash and thats enough to make the survivors rich. this could be used to buy huge amounts of resources.

Still all i would be doing for now is speculate but hey people do not think of this when writing a story. I think they will start to think this more critically as time goes by. Remember most of these concern did not exist before but now they are comming into play.

  • 01.11.2012 2:16 PM PDT